Do launchers actually not suck in this one? I never bothered to mess with them. I just keep a pistol, SMG (sometimes switch out for another pistol), sniper, and shotgun. Half my damage or so tends to me melee, too.SlaveNumber23 said:
Borderlands 2: The Problem with Combat Rifles
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Launchers are AMAZING. They no longer do reduced splash damage due to distance from target. The big number on the box is what you get.Assassin Xaero said:
In my opinion CR's seem like they did get shafted in this game, Im (currently) lvl 29 commando and I have a couple of good CR's like a purple one that only does a little under 200 dmg a shot but it has a freaking large clip (81 rounds!) so you can really just burst fire with or without the scope but the problems i had with it is one is the clip size because it will eat up your ammo reserves for CR's and the reload speed is very slow like 4-5 sec. to reload but I like because if anyone done the BL2 Personality quiz on here and your personality is Commando the tagline is: When in doubt, unload the entire clip and I do just that.
Touque guns seem to vary all around the place I had three of them one that had a three round barrel that i hated and seemed when I scoped and fire most of my shots end up going far away from what I was aiming at
Hopefully I can find a good CR because I don't use RL's that much as well as Shotty's even though I have a arsenal full of them(mostly signature shottys) but I want a shotty that screams: Point, aim, Dead. or screams power to me.
Touque guns seem to vary all around the place I had three of them one that had a three round barrel that i hated and seemed when I scoped and fire most of my shots end up going far away from what I was aiming at
Hopefully I can find a good CR because I don't use RL's that much as well as Shotty's even though I have a arsenal full of them(mostly signature shottys) but I want a shotty that screams: Point, aim, Dead. or screams power to me.
I generally disagree. The weapons simply have a different purpose. On average, a rifle does more damage per hit - a notable thing to consider when it comes to calculating critical hits and whatnot. Moreover, various rifles have the ability to deliver staggering and reliable damage at a rapid rate. To put it in perspective, I have two different level 38 purple weapons, one a Vladof that does 1400 or so damage with no elemental effects, high stability, low recoil and excellent rate of fire and and SMG that does ~ 900 damage with a 25% chance of applying a fire DOT of ~ 600. The vast majority of the time, the vladof is superior simply because that fire DOT takes awhile for the SMG, which has a higher theoretical damage, to catch up.
The rifle sees common use while the SMG does not. I play a Siren, a Hell Fox at that. The SMG is handy for badasses and bosses. The rifle for most anything else.
The rifle sees common use while the SMG does not. I play a Siren, a Hell Fox at that. The SMG is handy for badasses and bosses. The rifle for most anything else.
- Do more damage-My ARs tend to have around double the damage. I don't know if this is luck of the draw or what.
- Have a scope-Pretty common for both.
- Give 32 bullets on ammo pickups rather than 18-Really. You don't say. The one that chews through ammo faster gets more bullets?
- Have greater RoF in addition to the damage-Greater RoF, yes.
- Are more accurate-This I'll give you.
- Faster reload-I think you're right but haven't really paid attention.
- More BIG (Bullets In the Gun)-Really. You don't say. Etc., etc.
- More likely to have elemental effects-I don't think this is true, either.
- Have a scope-Pretty common for both.
- Give 32 bullets on ammo pickups rather than 18-Really. You don't say. The one that chews through ammo faster gets more bullets?
- Have greater RoF in addition to the damage-Greater RoF, yes.
- Are more accurate-This I'll give you.
- Faster reload-I think you're right but haven't really paid attention.
- More BIG (Bullets In the Gun)-Really. You don't say. Etc., etc.
- More likely to have elemental effects-I don't think this is true, either.
I find myself pulling out an Explosive Assault Rifle when battling robots... but mostly I don't use them except when I'm mucking about chasing Badass Challenges.
Kind of have the same deal with shotguns. I got explosive when I feel like using them, but I prefer a good SMG... or even a pistol.
Kind of have the same deal with shotguns. I got explosive when I feel like using them, but I prefer a good SMG... or even a pistol.
I mostly use SMGs, assault rifles and fully-automatic pistols and I have very little trouble tearing through anything on Pandora.
I remember killing Wilheim by just emptying two clips of my green class SMG into him. It was a wonderful anticlimax.
In regards to combat rifles, I was in the same boat until I got a purple combat rifle last night from The Fridge that does stupidly high caustic damage. It's now my go-to weapon for just about everything.
I remember killing Wilheim by just emptying two clips of my green class SMG into him. It was a wonderful anticlimax.
In regards to combat rifles, I was in the same boat until I got a purple combat rifle last night from The Fridge that does stupidly high caustic damage. It's now my go-to weapon for just about everything.
Well as the saying goes: "If you don't use Torgue, you're retarded".
That's most peoples problem with CRs, not using Torgue, or Vladof.
Dakka-love aside, I still prefer CRs to SMGs on account that the latter go through ammo like Cheryl Cole through [obscured on legal advice].
That's most peoples problem with CRs, not using Torgue, or Vladof.
Dakka-love aside, I still prefer CRs to SMGs on account that the latter go through ammo like Cheryl Cole through [obscured on legal advice].
The only Rifle that I've found that I've kept around to use is one that actually shoots rockets. Though the ones that I've seen do more damage than SMGs of the same level. As for most of your complaints, then can be answered by the different uses of the weapons:
Better Accuracy: At longer range, the AR's are a lot more accurate, at least the ones that I've messed around with before deciding I don't like them (granted, as a Siren player, SMG's are kinda my thing
)
The higher fire rate, more bullets per mag, and more bullets for the gun in total all go together. A higher fire-rate means you're shooting a lot more bullets, so you NEED a lot more bullets.
As for the Elemental Chance, that goes with the more bullets as well: if you're shooting more bullets, you've got a better chance at causing elemental damage.
All in all the lesson from the first game still holds true: just because any class CAN use any weapon doesn't mean that every class is good with every weapon. As I said, as a Siren, SMGs are great for me. From what I've read in other comments, Commandos get bonuses to ARs, and as such those weapons seem more likely to work out better for Commandos. Just as the Assassin gets bonuses with Sniper Rifles. And I know almost nothing about the Gunzerker other than he cand dual-weild.
My main problem with guns is that I've been joining friends at higher levels and leveling up a lot, so when I get back to my own game, all the rewards and drops I find are absolute crap. I'm lvl 24 using a lvl 18 corrosive SMG as my primary weapon. That said, I've found a bunch of good looking ARs, but I consider them vendor fodder just because of my class.
I guess what I'm saying is that you should stick with the guns that your class specializes in......and carry a big-ass rocket launcher for those "just in case" situations.
Better Accuracy: At longer range, the AR's are a lot more accurate, at least the ones that I've messed around with before deciding I don't like them (granted, as a Siren player, SMG's are kinda my thing
)The higher fire rate, more bullets per mag, and more bullets for the gun in total all go together. A higher fire-rate means you're shooting a lot more bullets, so you NEED a lot more bullets.
As for the Elemental Chance, that goes with the more bullets as well: if you're shooting more bullets, you've got a better chance at causing elemental damage.
All in all the lesson from the first game still holds true: just because any class CAN use any weapon doesn't mean that every class is good with every weapon. As I said, as a Siren, SMGs are great for me. From what I've read in other comments, Commandos get bonuses to ARs, and as such those weapons seem more likely to work out better for Commandos. Just as the Assassin gets bonuses with Sniper Rifles. And I know almost nothing about the Gunzerker other than he cand dual-weild.
My main problem with guns is that I've been joining friends at higher levels and leveling up a lot, so when I get back to my own game, all the rewards and drops I find are absolute crap. I'm lvl 24 using a lvl 18 corrosive SMG as my primary weapon. That said, I've found a bunch of good looking ARs, but I consider them vendor fodder just because of my class.
I guess what I'm saying is that you should stick with the guns that your class specializes in......and carry a big-ass rocket launcher for those "just in case" situations.
[/quote]Playful Pony said:
I have found a few Elemental AR's, they are very rare, I think I've found 2 or 3 and i'm halfway through PL2. One in the Sanctuary chest, and 2 through sidequests, one from Incinerator Clayton. Although I alt+f4'd at least 6 times before accepting his reward and got a fire one
Do more damage: The big question with this one is... what level are you? In the low levels SMGs and CRs tend to be fairly close in damage (Torgue rifles being the exception since they always have pretty high base damage per-shot). As you level up, and especially once you move into TVHM, CRs tend to pull significantly ahead of SMGs in terms of damage-per-round from my experiences.Bertylicious said:
Have a scope: Eh... this one's going to vary. Since each weapon's construction is completely random, you might just be getting rather unlucky with which optics pieces you're getting on your CR's. Granted, I don't know if some weapon classes have weighted values... it's possible, I guess.
Give 32 bullets instead of 18: Can't argue with that. This one definitely is a checkmark for SMGs. SMGs also have a larger reserve ammunition pool. I suppose the justification for it is that SMGs generally fire faster and do less damage per round... but then you get CRs that expend 3 or 4 rounds for each trigger pull. Sure, I've seen SMGs that fire more than one round per trigger pull, but it seems more rare than with CRs from my experiences.
Greater ROF: Usually this is true. I've seen some slowish SMGs and some ridiculously fast CRs, but yeah... generally SMGs fire faster. But it's to offset the damage difference in the upper levels.
More Accurate: It depends. In some cases manufacturer makes a difference. With a Hyperion SMG, even though the accuracy rating on it is pretty high, you're going to spend half of your magazine spraying off rounds in random directions before you ever actually reach that peak of pin-point accuracy. On top of that, SMG rounds tend to spread out more rapidly than CRs at longer ranges. Granted, with both weapon classes, you should probably be trying to fire in controlled bursts at long ranges anyway to reduce that.
Faster Reload: This also depends. It's partly due to manufacturer (Bandit weapons almost always have slow reloads) and partly due to which magazine type your weapon generated with. In the later levels and TVHM the automatic CRs tend to have larger magazine capacities than SMGs, and since the SMGs tend to fire faster, it means SMG users are going to need to reload more frequently than auto CR users.
Capacity: Luck of the draw. Some guns spawn with terrible magazine capacities, some spawn with great capacities. The semi-automatic CRs tend to always have smallish magazines, but the automatic ones get increasingly large capacities as you progress in the game. I've found it to be pretty common to find automatic CRs with 100+ rounds in their magazines, while similar SMGs tend to be in the 30 to 75 range.
Elemental Effects: This is kind of a carry-over from the first game. CRs have always had a fairly low chance to come with elemental effects, and even when they do have it, they tend to have a much lower proc chance than other weapons. I always figured that the justification for it was that SMGs and Repeaters generally did lower damage and had fewer rounds than CRs, so the elemental damage was supposed to bridge the gap. Beyond that, I don't think CRs are "supposed" to be used by elemental damage focused Sirens. In BL2 Axton gets Assault Rifle bonuses on his class mods, and he also has a talent that greatly enhances the damage of non-elemental weapons. While anyone can use any weapon type, there are still "encouraged" weapons for each class, and I think CRs are "supposed" to be non-elemental in this game so that Axton can maximize the effectiveness of them. I could be wrong, though.
Assault Rifles can be good, you just have to be selective with what you get. You generally can't go wrong with a Dahl, Vladoff, or Torque weapon. Dahls with a scope and a decent accuracy stat are critical hit machines, Vladoffs just kill stuff, and all Torque guns have the explosive element, which is probably the best element in the game. The thing to remember is that you can't just look at the stats, you have to actually give the gun a try.
Vladof rocket launchers. It's an AR that fires rockets. /thread
On a serious note, ARs really do have better long-range use than SMGs. I sit there with a calculator factoring RoF and everything so I only have the best diverse loadout, and whenever I need a midrange hurt machine, SMGs are only more useful when their elements can turn a fight. Which is often, but you get my point. There are elemental ARs.
On a serious note, ARs really do have better long-range use than SMGs. I sit there with a calculator factoring RoF and everything so I only have the best diverse loadout, and whenever I need a midrange hurt machine, SMGs are only more useful when their elements can turn a fight. Which is often, but you get my point. There are elemental ARs.
Well that's random guns for you, I actually found no difference between pistols, SMG, combat rifles and sniper rifles in one iteration or another they equate to anything.
I like the burst fire CRs, the ones with the VERY small crosshairs (smaller then pistols)....and always with x3 etc on it. The damage from those at level are higher then any other weapons non-elemental at weapon damage over time.....from range.
Shotguns obviously do more at close range, but SMGs are not as accurate (small of a cross hair) so don't do nearly as much damage to an enemy that is mid range (not sniper range but far enough to need a very small crosshair to hit).
Pistols rock for the elemental damage mainly.
Shotguns rock hard for close range (awesome really).
I only use SMGs as a backup weapon if I'm all out of ammo pretty much...and usually it's an elemental SMG at that.
Sniper rifles are great as well...but have way less ammo...and if you do a direct comparison of sniper rifle damage to CR (the type i'm talking about)...the CR does way more damage since it fires in bursts of 3...but very accurate.
That is especially true with accuracy buffs, like on my zero character. I love shotguns on him, but the accuracy bonus from badass ranks and one of his skills makes my CR almost as accurate as a zoomed in sniper rifle. The effect is far less on an smg though.
So basically SMGs work well as close range weapons for the most part...even with accuracy buffs they are not able to hit enemies a decent range away...and therefore.....a shotgun (or pistol) is often better then an SMG in any situation.
CR's though work well in many situations...especially when elemental damage isn't optimal or needed. The ammo goes a very long way on the burst fire CRs...and I pretty much never run out of CR ammo because that is the only type I use. It's still never my primary weapon....pistols and shotguns win there, but I also always have a good x3 CR on every character I play.
Rocket launchers are also great...and I use them often as well.....but unless i'm at decent range my shotguns usually do more damage then the rockets do, they reload faster (much), fire faster...and with zero pierce enemies as well.
Shotguns obviously do more at close range, but SMGs are not as accurate (small of a cross hair) so don't do nearly as much damage to an enemy that is mid range (not sniper range but far enough to need a very small crosshair to hit).
Pistols rock for the elemental damage mainly.
Shotguns rock hard for close range (awesome really).
I only use SMGs as a backup weapon if I'm all out of ammo pretty much...and usually it's an elemental SMG at that.
Sniper rifles are great as well...but have way less ammo...and if you do a direct comparison of sniper rifle damage to CR (the type i'm talking about)...the CR does way more damage since it fires in bursts of 3...but very accurate.
That is especially true with accuracy buffs, like on my zero character. I love shotguns on him, but the accuracy bonus from badass ranks and one of his skills makes my CR almost as accurate as a zoomed in sniper rifle. The effect is far less on an smg though.
So basically SMGs work well as close range weapons for the most part...even with accuracy buffs they are not able to hit enemies a decent range away...and therefore.....a shotgun (or pistol) is often better then an SMG in any situation.
CR's though work well in many situations...especially when elemental damage isn't optimal or needed. The ammo goes a very long way on the burst fire CRs...and I pretty much never run out of CR ammo because that is the only type I use. It's still never my primary weapon....pistols and shotguns win there, but I also always have a good x3 CR on every character I play.
Rocket launchers are also great...and I use them often as well.....but unless i'm at decent range my shotguns usually do more damage then the rockets do, they reload faster (much), fire faster...and with zero pierce enemies as well.
In all fairness, it all depends on the drops you get.
However, going off regular greens (which I had to rely on for most of the game since I got shit drops), I found that Assault Rifles were the bottom of the barrel. It's not any single thing, but rather the mix of low-ish rate of fire (compared to SMGs), bad accuracy, appaling recoil and midling damage. There simply isn't any situation where I'd say "I need a RIFLE for this shit!". Snipers and Pistols are better at long range, Shotguns and SMGs are better close up.
The only Rifles that seem like they might work good are Torgue due to the large damage numbers, but for some reason explosive projectiles seem to pass through enemies fairly often. I regularly see bullets pass straight through enemies and it's almost only with explosive Rifle bullets.
In general, I'd say that the gun hierarchy in BL2 would be Snipers (huge damage, huge crits, range) > Shotguns (massive damage, easy to crit) > Pistols (good damage, accurate, plenty of ammo) > SMGs (solid DPS) > Assault Rifles (meh at everything).
However, going off regular greens (which I had to rely on for most of the game since I got shit drops), I found that Assault Rifles were the bottom of the barrel. It's not any single thing, but rather the mix of low-ish rate of fire (compared to SMGs), bad accuracy, appaling recoil and midling damage. There simply isn't any situation where I'd say "I need a RIFLE for this shit!". Snipers and Pistols are better at long range, Shotguns and SMGs are better close up.
The only Rifles that seem like they might work good are Torgue due to the large damage numbers, but for some reason explosive projectiles seem to pass through enemies fairly often. I regularly see bullets pass straight through enemies and it's almost only with explosive Rifle bullets.
In general, I'd say that the gun hierarchy in BL2 would be Snipers (huge damage, huge crits, range) > Shotguns (massive damage, easy to crit) > Pistols (good damage, accurate, plenty of ammo) > SMGs (solid DPS) > Assault Rifles (meh at everything).
I was like that for the longest time, but when you've got a Super Badass Psycho running at you, the best weapon to be holding is a high powered SMG. My current one is about half the strength of my pistol and about a quarter of the strength of sniper rifle.wulfy42 said:
A really good shotgun might be a better choice in that situation, but the SMG is a much more flexible weapon and fits my play style.