Borderlands 2 Will Be Insanely Well-Armed

Erttheking

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AC10 said:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.
...Did you read the entire article? He flat out says that he saw that problem with the first game and they're working on fixing it. Here's a quote from the article.

"players should feel there are many different types of guns, not just slight variations."

"Pitchford said that this was mainly possible due to a gradually-increasing budget."

See?
 

CardinalPiggles

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Everything I hear about this game makes me want to ransack Gearbox's main studio for a copy of the game! And every time I see a screenshot of Borderlands 2 it makes me so excited.

"Badass" system [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-13-borderlands-2-badass-system-has-infinite-levels-of-progression]
Ohhh so that's why they wanted people to play Borderlands 1 a short while ago. Glad to know now.
 

EHKOS

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Feb 28, 2010
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I'm still worked up about the Ultimate edition, which is selling for double the price on Ebay. I guess I should start saving up.
 

Shjade

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gigastar said:
Well i cant pull proof for it, but apparently it will use Steamworks. Sorry if i ruined your day further due to a irrational hatred of Steam.
What? Steam is fine. I have a rational dislike of Gamespy derived from the amount of crap I have to go through when I want to play games that rely on it.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Nov 9, 2008
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AC10 said:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.
They meant a different weapon in the RPG sense (i.e. different swords and crap in your run-of-the-mill fantasy RPG. They don't play out differently, they just have different stats).
 

Weaver

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erttheking said:
AC10 said:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.
...Did you read the entire article? He flat out says that he saw that problem with the first game and they're working on fixing it. Here's a quote from the article.

"players should feel there are many different types of guns, not just slight variations."

"Pitchford said that this was mainly possible due to a gradually-increasing budget."

See?
But there is no going to be billions of guns as seems to be implied.
 

Erttheking

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AC10 said:
erttheking said:
AC10 said:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.
...Did you read the entire article? He flat out says that he saw that problem with the first game and they're working on fixing it. Here's a quote from the article.

"players should feel there are many different types of guns, not just slight variations."

"Pitchford said that this was mainly possible due to a gradually-increasing budget."

See?
But there is no going to be billions of guns as seems to be implied.
"Shrug" guess the differences between the guns just aren't enough for some people. They were for me.
 

JohnnyDelRay

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They should just come out and say it. List how many base weapons there are, by class or manufacturer or whatever, and then say that there are unlimited combinations of stats and elemental damage.

And the other differences reflect on the gun itself, say the zoom stat will affect the scope/iron sights, elemental affects the color, range affects barrel length etc, because that is what the game does. Even that is sometimes sketchy, carrying a machine gun clip that looks like it holds 20 rounds when it actually has 150 (ok some of that is due to character stats but still).

In Rainbow 6 or Crysis you don't slap on an extended mag and red dot sight and call it a different gun for gods sake.
 

ZephrC

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Mygaffer said:
Borderlands really only had a few weapons. Repeating pistols, pistols, revolvers, submachine guns, machine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, rocket launchers, and alien weapons. Their system gave slightly different stats to these same weapon type but otherwise they are all examples of the same gun. It is something of a cheat to say they have the most guns of any game, which is not true if you count guns that actually were designed from the ground up as different weapons.
You forgot shotguns.

Also, while it's true that the over 17 million number is silly and useless, it's not fair to say there was no meaningful variation within the weapon types. For instance, an assault rifle with average power and and accuracy but really low recoil and a high fire rate that fires exploding rounds in three round bursts plays very differently from an assault rifle that has a low firing speed and fires accurate and powerful single shots that set people on fire.

I guess it gets into kind of a gray area how different weapons have to be to count as 'different', but I don't think that saying there are less than a dozen types of weapons in Borderlands is any more accurate than saying there are over 17 million.
 

F'Angus

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As long as I can find another SMG that shoots 5 bullets at one I'll be happy.
 

The_Blue_Rider

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Well this is awesome, despite everyone saying that the 17 million guns was just 12 different gusn with varying stats, there actually is an assload of variation.

For example with Repeater pistols there are 5 common variants

Lacerator - +200% Melee damage.
Needler - Increased fire rate & magazine size.
Raptor - Increased damage at the expense of higher recoil.
Repeater - Balanced, closest to default stats.
Swatter - Higher accuracy.

Those are the standard pistols that will come in white, green, blue, and purple rarity. Then they can have additional elemental damage types (Explosive, Corrosive, Fire, and Shock). And also from random weapon parts, like a scope that increases accuracy for example.

Then you have the unique pistols, which usually have very good stats for their level

Lady Finger "Omnia vincit amor" +100% increased critical damage.
The Dove "Sometimes, I forget to reload." - No ammo usage.
Krom's Sidearm "a gift from Papa Krom" - 300% Burst Fire while zoomed & 3x Shock.
Chiquito Amigo Say "Hello" - Fast reload, large magazine.
Knoxx's Gold "Bling!" - Increased resale value.
Athena's Wisdom"War is the final option" - Increased critical hit damage & accuracy.

Now these unique weapons will spawn as one of the common or even legendary repeater types (Ill get to legendary in one second). So you could get a Swatter (Higher accuracy) spawning as Athena's Wisdom, so now you have an even more accurate pistol with a bonus to critical damage, vastly increasing its usefulness.

Then there are the legendary weapons, marked in Orange

Atlas Troll "Pain Heals." - Slow health regeneration while held.
Dahl Hornet "Feel the Sting" - 200% burst fire, corrosive.
Hyperion Invader "12 bullets invade your skull" - Fully automatic while zoomed.
Maliwan Firehawk "Bring the HEAT!" - Incendiary x4, splash damage, extreme proc damage (equivalent to a x6)
S&S Gemini "Double Whammy." - 200% Burst Fire, 2 bullets fired per shot at the cost of 2 ammo.
Tediore Protector "Ammo is no longer an issue." - Ammo Regeneration.
Torgue Violator "Your move, Creep." - 300% Burst Fire x 3 bullets per shot at the cost of 1 ammo.
Vladof Rebel "Never stop shooting!" - Large magazine & increases RoF.

These guns always have special effects, that are much more noticable than the effects obtained from unique weapons. The Legendary weapons are where the guns start to feel incredibly different, as most of them require a strategy to be used effectively (E.g. when you using the Firehawk you can safely switch between targets, since the fire damage will do enough DOT to kill enemies. Whereas with the Invader, you will want to make the most of its effect to load bullets into individual enemies skulls to get a hige critical damage boost)

Theres the pearlescent rank, which is effectively just even better legendary weapons. These guns are the rarest of the rare and have one of a kind special effects (E.g the ability to fire bullets that do 2 types of elemental damage at the same time)

In addition to all this guns also have manufacturers, which have their own effect on a gun.

Atlas - Above average damage and magazine capacity.
Appearance: White, with more black detailing at higher material grades.


Dahl - High recoil reduction, at the cost of accuracy.
Appearance: Various camouflage patterns differing across material grades.


Eridians - Alien weaponry, deals generally high damage with unlimited ammunition but often suffers from slow recharge.
Appearance: Organic, easily told apart from normal weapons.

Hyperion - Very high recoil reduction and accuracy.
Appearance: Red, darker and more metallic at higher material grades.


Jakobs - Never manufactures elemental weapons. Very high damage, but with lower fire rate and recoil reduction.
Appearance: Orange and brown, with wooden gloss finishes at higher material grades.


Maliwan - Only manufactures elemental weapons, which have much higher tech regeneration rates. Also benefits from marginal increases to accuracy and reload speed.


S&S Munitions - Very high magazine capacity. Usually manufactures elemental weapons.
Appearance: Yellow and black, more contrast at higher material grades.


Tediore - Extremely fast reload speed, with a slight compromise on damage and accuracy.
Appearance: Matte gray, lighter gray to beige at higher material grades


Torgue - High damage and slightly higher fire rate, but suffers from much lower accuracy and recoil reduction.
Appearance: Dark gray to black, darker and more metallic at higher material grades.


Vladof - Very high fire rate, good recoil reduction, but suffers from much lower accuracy.
Appearance: Orange and black, more contrast at higher material grades.

With all this combined, those simple stat changes can make guns feel very different to one another, so while 17 million guns may not all feel different, a good couple of thousand do. Which is still very impressive.
 

Legion

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Oct 2, 2008
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AC10 said:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.
Agreed completely.

Although I always take these announcements as something of a joke, the creators behind the series do like to be quite light hearted, and I don't think they are using it as a serious selling point in the same way as other companies do when they announce things.
 

Signa

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The_Blue_Rider said:
Well this is awesome, despite everyone saying that the 17 million guns was just 12 different gusn with varying stats, there actually is an assload of variation.

For example with Repeater pistols there are 5 common variants

Lacerator - +200% Melee damage.
Needler - Increased fire rate & magazine size.
Raptor - Increased damage at the expense of higher recoil.
Repeater - Balanced, closest to default stats.
Swatter - Higher accuracy.

Those are the standard pistols that will come in white, green, blue, and purple rarity. Then they can have additional elemental damage types (Explosive, Corrosive, Fire, and Shock). And also from random weapon parts, like a scope that increases accuracy for example.

Then you have the unique pistols, which usually have very good stats for their level

Lady Finger "Omnia vincit amor" +100% increased critical damage.
The Dove "Sometimes, I forget to reload." - No ammo usage.
Krom's Sidearm "a gift from Papa Krom" - 300% Burst Fire while zoomed & 3x Shock.
Chiquito Amigo Say "Hello" - Fast reload, large magazine.
Knoxx's Gold "Bling!" - Increased resale value.
Athena's Wisdom"War is the final option" - Increased critical hit damage & accuracy.

Now these unique weapons will spawn as one of the common or even legendary repeater types (Ill get to legendary in one second). So you could get a Swatter (Higher accuracy) spawning as Athena's Wisdom, so now you have an even more accurate pistol with a bonus to critical damage, vastly increasing its usefulness.

Then there are the legendary weapons, marked in Orange

Atlas Troll "Pain Heals." - Slow health regeneration while held.
Dahl Hornet "Feel the Sting" - 200% burst fire, corrosive.
Hyperion Invader "12 bullets invade your skull" - Fully automatic while zoomed.
Maliwan Firehawk "Bring the HEAT!" - Incendiary x4, splash damage, extreme proc damage (equivalent to a x6)
S&S Gemini "Double Whammy." - 200% Burst Fire, 2 bullets fired per shot at the cost of 2 ammo.
Tediore Protector "Ammo is no longer an issue." - Ammo Regeneration.
Torgue Violator "Your move, Creep." - 300% Burst Fire x 3 bullets per shot at the cost of 1 ammo.
Vladof Rebel "Never stop shooting!" - Large magazine & increases RoF.

These guns always have special effects, that are much more noticable than the effects obtained from unique weapons. The Legendary weapons are where the guns start to feel incredibly different, as most of them require a strategy to be used effectively (E.g. when you using the Firehawk you can safely switch between targets, since the fire damage will do enough DOT to kill enemies. Whereas with the Invader, you will want to make the most of its effect to load bullets into individual enemies skulls to get a hige critical damage boost)

Theres the pearlescent rank, which is effectively just even better legendary weapons. These guns are the rarest of the rare and have one of a kind special effects (E.g the ability to fire bullets that do 2 types of elemental damage at the same time)

In addition to all this guns also have manufacturers, which have their own effect on a gun.

Atlas - Above average damage and magazine capacity.
Appearance: White, with more black detailing at higher material grades.


Dahl - High recoil reduction, at the cost of accuracy.
Appearance: Various camouflage patterns differing across material grades.


Eridians - Alien weaponry, deals generally high damage with unlimited ammunition but often suffers from slow recharge.
Appearance: Organic, easily told apart from normal weapons.

Hyperion - Very high recoil reduction and accuracy.
Appearance: Red, darker and more metallic at higher material grades.


Jakobs - Never manufactures elemental weapons. Very high damage, but with lower fire rate and recoil reduction.
Appearance: Orange and brown, with wooden gloss finishes at higher material grades.


Maliwan - Only manufactures elemental weapons, which have much higher tech regeneration rates. Also benefits from marginal increases to accuracy and reload speed.


S&S Munitions - Very high magazine capacity. Usually manufactures elemental weapons.
Appearance: Yellow and black, more contrast at higher material grades.


Tediore - Extremely fast reload speed, with a slight compromise on damage and accuracy.
Appearance: Matte gray, lighter gray to beige at higher material grades


Torgue - High damage and slightly higher fire rate, but suffers from much lower accuracy and recoil reduction.
Appearance: Dark gray to black, darker and more metallic at higher material grades.


Vladof - Very high fire rate, good recoil reduction, but suffers from much lower accuracy.
Appearance: Orange and black, more contrast at higher material grades.

With all this combined, those simple stat changes can make guns feel very different to one another, so while 17 million guns may not all feel different, a good couple of thousand do. Which is still very impressive.
I'm sure that's a big fat TLDR for the haters, but it was a nice read. It was interesting how often I'd use a gun in BL that just felt like crap. I think that alone sold me on this system, because I have used crap guns in other games before, and you just end up not using them. In that case, that's usually a whole weapon class that gets ignored, instead of just one drop. 15 bazillion guns, or however they sold it the first time around may have been an exaggeration regarding how it effects gameplay, but it really wasn't a lie when compared to its only competition; other FPS games.
 

Shjade

Chaos in Jeans
Feb 2, 2010
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poiumty said:
http://www.borderlands2.com/loveletter/?x

There you go. LAN support and everything you need.
If I had never heard of Borderlands or Gearbox before today, I would still feel compelled to buy Borderlands 2 just because of that letter.

I dunno about pre ordering it, despite their gajillion different pre-order bonus offers (seriously what is up with that?), but definitely picking it up.