Borderlands Pre-Sequel: Story Gets a 1 out of 5

[Dreadman75]

Why was Willham so week even though he kicked the original vault hunters butt. That is explained latter but not in the game.

Umm, it is explained in game. Pretty much immediately after the boss fight.

Spoiler

JACK TRICKED YOU! How did you not notice that? It is spelled out incredibly obviously...I'm pretty sure it was also directly stated, too, but even if it wasn't, it was never a "plot hole" of any sort, let's analyse:

Jack keeps mocking you and taunting you about having a "secret plan" from pretty much the very beginning of the game. When you finally get sent to get rob the train, youmeet and fight Wilhelm, to the mixed cheer and dismay of the others. And you get his power cell as Angel suggests. Only when you get to the town and plug it in, Jack has Angel take over all defences and lower all shields. He directly tells you this was his entire plan from the beginning - the one he has been taunting you with for all this time.

How is it not clear that you beating Wilhelm a set up by Jack? If you hadn't plugged that part, Angel wouldn't have been able to phase shift into controlling Sancuary. If you died you can't really get Wilhelm's cell to Sanctuary, now can you? And by getting it from him, you are MORE likely to just blindly stick it in there.

Jack has repeatedly shown he is resourceful, smart and lays long term plans and doesn't shy away from sacrificing some resources if he's going to get a bigger benefit out of it.

There is definitely nothing strange, uncharacteristic, or requiring extra explanation in-game there. I don't know how you manage to miss it.

There's even a few deleted lines of Jack's dialogue after Sanctuary lifts off in which he goes on about how he actually poisoned Wilhelm before his fight with the Blands 2 Vault Hunters. It's actually kind of weird that they'd take them out, they were fully voiced and everything...

 

[LarsInCharge]

Ok, so because of a plot hole the game is the worst game ever for you?

Let me tell you a fun little story. I actually fucking bought E.T. on the Atari. Even back then when all games were vague large pixeled shapes it was particularly insane to just try and figure out how to play the game at all. I have absolutely no sympathy towards feelings that a single plot-hole makes a modern game somehow the worst thing ever. Not even close. (I'm just glad I didn't buy it until '89 where it was thrown into a pack of atari games)

If you absolutely must have a plausible explanation:

Consider this, that however DAHL got in and locked Jack out of the system was also a time that they locked Angel from having control of it too. She clearly isn't all powerful.

Direct me to where I said that please.

From the OP:

"the story is not just the weakest in BL history, but one of the worst in video games over the last couple years."

And I still like playing the game because the gameplay is solid. It's just winding up in that special section with Lightning Returns where I love the combat, love the gameplay, and think the story is a pile of bullcrap and chips.

 

[DoPo]

Why was Willham so week even though he kicked the original vault hunters butt. That is explained latter but not in the game.

Umm, it is explained in game. Pretty much immediately after the boss fight.

Spoiler

JACK TRICKED YOU! How did you not notice that? It is spelled out incredibly obviously...I'm pretty sure it was also directly stated, too, but even if it wasn't, it was never a "plot hole" of any sort, let's analyse:

Jack keeps mocking you and taunting you about having a "secret plan" from pretty much the very beginning of the game. When you finally get sent to get rob the train, youmeet and fight Wilhelm, to the mixed cheer and dismay of the others. And you get his power cell as Angel suggests. Only when you get to the town and plug it in, Jack has Angel take over all defences and lower all shields. He directly tells you this was his entire plan from the beginning - the one he has been taunting you with for all this time.

How is it not clear that you beating Wilhelm a set up by Jack? If you hadn't plugged that part, Angel wouldn't have been able to phase shift into controlling Sancuary. If you died you can't really get Wilhelm's cell to Sanctuary, now can you? And by getting it from him, you are MORE likely to just blindly stick it in there.

Jack has repeatedly shown he is resourceful, smart and lays long term plans and doesn't shy away from sacrificing some resources if he's going to get a bigger benefit out of it.

There is definitely nothing strange, uncharacteristic, or requiring extra explanation in-game there. I don't know how you manage to miss it.

There's even a few deleted lines of Jack's dialogue after Sanctuary lifts off in which he goes on about how he actually poisoned Wilhelm before his fight with the Blands 2 Vault Hunters. It's actually kind of weird that they'd take them out, they were fully voiced and everything...

I'd say it was too obvious already, probably. Then again, I thought he already did say something to that effect, I can't remember his exact speech after that mission.

 

[asdfen]

wait a second. Is someone saying that the newest borderlands actually had a story? Previous ones sure did not, unless you count, here is a big gun go open the big alien vault thing or in case of 2nd game here is a big gun go stop this evil bad guy, as a story.

 

[Lightknight]

Ok, so because of a plot hole the game is the worst game ever for you?

Let me tell you a fun little story. I actually fucking bought E.T. on the Atari. Even back then when all games were vague large pixeled shapes it was particularly insane to just try and figure out how to play the game at all. I have absolutely no sympathy towards feelings that a single plot-hole makes a modern game somehow the worst thing ever. Not even close. (I'm just glad I didn't buy it until '89 where it was thrown into a pack of atari games)

If you absolutely must have a plausible explanation:

Consider this, that however DAHL got in and locked Jack out of the system was also a time that they locked Angel from having control of it too. She clearly isn't all powerful.

Direct me to where I said that please.

From the OP:

"the story is not just the weakest in BL history, but one of the worst in video games over the last couple years."

And I still like playing the game because the gameplay is solid. It's just winding up in that special section with Lightning Returns where I love the combat, love the gameplay, and think the story is a pile of bullcrap and chips.

Oh, your contention is over me leaving it as one of the worst games ever rather than "over the last couple of years"? Fair enough.

So, because of one plot hole you argue that the entire story is now the worst in several years?

Again, the way they locked Jack out could have included locking Angel out. She's not all powerful and we've regularly been tasked with giving her back control of things so why not?

 

[LarsInCharge]

Ok, so because of a plot hole the game is the worst game ever for you?

Let me tell you a fun little story. I actually fucking bought E.T. on the Atari. Even back then when all games were vague large pixeled shapes it was particularly insane to just try and figure out how to play the game at all. I have absolutely no sympathy towards feelings that a single plot-hole makes a modern game somehow the worst thing ever. Not even close. (I'm just glad I didn't buy it until '89 where it was thrown into a pack of atari games)

If you absolutely must have a plausible explanation:

Consider this, that however DAHL got in and locked Jack out of the system was also a time that they locked Angel from having control of it too. She clearly isn't all powerful.

Direct me to where I said that please.

From the OP:

"the story is not just the weakest in BL history, but one of the worst in video games over the last couple years."

And I still like playing the game because the gameplay is solid. It's just winding up in that special section with Lightning Returns where I love the combat, love the gameplay, and think the story is a pile of bullcrap and chips.

Oh, your contention is over me leaving it as one of the worst games ever rather than "over the last couple of years"? Fair enough.

So, because of one plot hole you argue that the entire story is now the worst in several years?

Again, the way they locked Jack out could have included locking Angel out. She's not all powerful and we've regularly been tasked with giving her back control of things so why not?

There's about 40 plot holes, but that's the one you can fit a cruise liner through.

The issue is that with most games, the plot holes appear later in the game, so you've at least enjoyed part of the story before logic shreds it. Bioshock Infinite as an example.

This one, the most major plot hole takes place within 15 seconds of you controlling your character. That's HORRIBLE storytelling.

 

[kilenem]

Why was Willham so week even though he kicked the original vault hunters butt. That is explained latter but not in the game.

Umm, it is explained in game. Pretty much immediately after the boss fight.

Spoiler

JACK TRICKED YOU! How did you not notice that? It is spelled out incredibly obviously...I'm pretty sure it was also directly stated, too, but even if it wasn't, it was never a "plot hole" of any sort, let's analyse:

Jack keeps mocking you and taunting you about having a "secret plan" from pretty much the very beginning of the game. When you finally get sent to get rob the train, youmeet and fight Wilhelm, to the mixed cheer and dismay of the others. And you get his power cell as Angel suggests. Only when you get to the town and plug it in, Jack has Angel take over all defences and lower all shields. He directly tells you this was his entire plan from the beginning - the one he has been taunting you with for all this time.

How is it not clear that you beating Wilhelm a set up by Jack? If you hadn't plugged that part, Angel wouldn't have been able to phase shift into controlling Sancuary. If you died you can't really get Wilhelm's cell to Sanctuary, now can you? And by getting it from him, you are MORE likely to just blindly stick it in there.

Jack has repeatedly shown he is resourceful, smart and lays long term plans and doesn't shy away from sacrificing some resources if he's going to get a bigger benefit out of it.

There is definitely nothing strange, uncharacteristic, or requiring extra explanation in-game there. I don't know how you manage to miss it.

Apparently there was a hidden audio log in the game data where Jack poison's willham before the fight. That would've added some clarity.

 

[DoPo]

Why was Willham so week even though he kicked the original vault hunters butt. That is explained latter but not in the game.

Umm, it is explained in game. Pretty much immediately after the boss fight.

Spoiler

JACK TRICKED YOU! How did you not notice that? It is spelled out incredibly obviously...I'm pretty sure it was also directly stated, too, but even if it wasn't, it was never a "plot hole" of any sort, let's analyse:

Jack keeps mocking you and taunting you about having a "secret plan" from pretty much the very beginning of the game. When you finally get sent to get rob the train, youmeet and fight Wilhelm, to the mixed cheer and dismay of the others. And you get his power cell as Angel suggests. Only when you get to the town and plug it in, Jack has Angel take over all defences and lower all shields. He directly tells you this was his entire plan from the beginning - the one he has been taunting you with for all this time.

How is it not clear that you beating Wilhelm a set up by Jack? If you hadn't plugged that part, Angel wouldn't have been able to phase shift into controlling Sancuary. If you died you can't really get Wilhelm's cell to Sanctuary, now can you? And by getting it from him, you are MORE likely to just blindly stick it in there.

Jack has repeatedly shown he is resourceful, smart and lays long term plans and doesn't shy away from sacrificing some resources if he's going to get a bigger benefit out of it.

There is definitely nothing strange, uncharacteristic, or requiring extra explanation in-game there. I don't know how you manage to miss it.

Apparently there was a hidden audio log in the game data where Jack poison's willham before the fight. That would've added some clarity.

What in Jack's plan wasn't clear? He used you. He stated as much. You clearly see he did. Where is the plot hole there?

 

[kilenem]

Why was Willham so week even though he kicked the original vault hunters butt. That is explained latter but not in the game.

Umm, it is explained in game. Pretty much immediately after the boss fight.

Spoiler

JACK TRICKED YOU! How did you not notice that? It is spelled out incredibly obviously...I'm pretty sure it was also directly stated, too, but even if it wasn't, it was never a "plot hole" of any sort, let's analyse:

Jack keeps mocking you and taunting you about having a "secret plan" from pretty much the very beginning of the game. When you finally get sent to get rob the train, youmeet and fight Wilhelm, to the mixed cheer and dismay of the others. And you get his power cell as Angel suggests. Only when you get to the town and plug it in, Jack has Angel take over all defences and lower all shields. He directly tells you this was his entire plan from the beginning - the one he has been taunting you with for all this time.

How is it not clear that you beating Wilhelm a set up by Jack? If you hadn't plugged that part, Angel wouldn't have been able to phase shift into controlling Sancuary. If you died you can't really get Wilhelm's cell to Sanctuary, now can you? And by getting it from him, you are MORE likely to just blindly stick it in there.

Jack has repeatedly shown he is resourceful, smart and lays long term plans and doesn't shy away from sacrificing some resources if he's going to get a bigger benefit out of it.

There is definitely nothing strange, uncharacteristic, or requiring extra explanation in-game there. I don't know how you manage to miss it.

Apparently there was a hidden audio log in the game data where Jack poison's willham before the fight. That would've added some clarity.

What in Jack's plan wasn't clear? He used you. He stated as much. You clearly see he did. Where is the plot hole there?

How Come willham was so easy to kill. There were harder bosses before williham. That mission was a cake walk compared Blood Shot strangle hold.

 

[DoPo]

How Come willham was so easy to kill.

Did you read anything I wrote? Jack. Used. You. There is no plothole. Failing to mention exactly why something is the way it is, is not a plothole, since it's clear it's due to Jack's manipulation.

If you see a character, say, eating a pancake for the first time, this wouldn't be a plothole if nobody ever said that character can eat pancakes.

 

[kilenem]

How Come willham was so easy to kill.

Did you read anything I wrote? Jack. Used. You. There is no plothole. Failing to mention exactly why something is the way it is, is not a plothole, since it's clear it's due to Jack's manipulation.

If you see a character, say, eating a pancake for the first time, this wouldn't be a plothole if nobody ever said that character can eat pancakes.

I read what you wrote but when you fight the Hyperion constructor, at the Blood shot strangle hold, that was a harder boss fight. That was Jack using you.

 

[SSJBlastoise]

I read what you wrote but when you fight the Hyperion constructor, at the Blood shot strangle hold, that was a harder boss fight. That was Jack using you.

The Wilhelm fight was to get you to disable the shield around Sanctuary so he could destroy it easily. The rest were designed to stop you because that plan hadn't worked, hence why the later boss fights are harder.

DoPo is right, it's explained in the game and I don't think you even needed to find hidden ECHO logs to find that stuff out.

 

[Shocksplicer]

Eridium had only recently been revealed, her powers weren't as strong as they are at the time of Borderlands 2.
Also, Jack isn't Hyperion CEO yet, it's reasonable to surmise that he hasn't been able to give Angel full access to the mainframe and Hyperion's resources yet.
AND Zarpedon makes use of multiple jamming devices, it's more than likely that they would interfere with Angel's ability to control the station even if she had any.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I just assumed that Angel wasn't on station for the pre-sequel. Since the only time she shows up is during some echo logs and Hyperion might have misgivings about giving a low level manager full access to their computer systems I just assumed that Angel is off somewhere else, waiting for jack to give the signal for her to come join him.

 

[Kyrian007]

Well, first of all, there's no such thing as a plot hole in fiction. Anything that happens in fiction, happens the way it does because the author (content creator) SAYS it happens that way. If I've written a book in which the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and then write a discription later that has the opposite happening on a single day... AND never bother to explain that inconsistancy... that isn't a "plot hole." I just either a: deemed it not important enough to waste words on, b: plan to explain it later, or c: I'm leaving it as a dangling thread to fuck with nitpickers because it makes me laugh.

That being said, the Willhelm thing bothered me too. It wasn't a so-called "plot hole" (it couldn't be, they don't exist in fiction) it was just this... The most well written, most highly characterized, most interesting character in the series to this point... was a complete moron.

I mean bad, sub bond-villain wannabe level of antagionist. Why allow the vault hunters access to the one thing that assures them victory, and not give the same to your own dudes. Namely the new-u system. Clearly (because of the events of BL 2) he has complete access to it. So unless his plan is for the vault hunters to win and eventually kill him and take over Pandora, its vaults, and all hyperion's holdings on it... he's just a moron.

I could think of a dozen ways he could have tricked the new vault hunters into using the power core without having to sacrifice Willhelm... The first one came to me after about 5 seconds. As fun and interesting a bad guy as Jack is to square off against... BRICK is a better and more strategic thinker than Jack is.

 

[Rayce Archer]

You know this just hit me when I started TVHM the other day.

Jack almost certainly doesn't stay on the station when he sends you down to Elpis. Why would he? It's full of men who want to shoot him, and we've already seen that he can't take them on his own. We also don't see how he reaches Elpis himself, but if you scout around Concordia once he's there, there's no container anywhere nearby.

Dollars to donuts this is when anything Angel related happens.

 

[kilenem]

I read what you wrote but when you fight the Hyperion constructor, at the Blood shot strangle hold, that was a harder boss fight. That was Jack using you.

The Wilhelm fight was to get you to disable the shield around Sanctuary so he could destroy it easily. The rest were designed to stop you because that plan hadn't worked, hence why the later boss fights are harder.

DoPo is right, it's explained in the game and I don't think you even needed to find hidden ECHO logs to find that stuff out.

I know that. I comparing the Hyperion constructor to Willham a Hyperion Guard. Both sent by Jack in his plan to destroy sanctuary. Its just really odd for the Willham fight to be so easy. I think with the missing Echo log put into the game it makes more since. Even when people found the Echo log in the code where Jack says he poisoned willham. The comments are ok that makes since. I don't get why that would've been cut from the game.

 

[Kopikatsu]

You know this just hit me when I started TVHM the other day.

Jack almost certainly doesn't stay on the station when he sends you down to Elpis. Why would he? It's full of men who want to shoot him, and we've already seen that he can't take them on his own. We also don't see how he reaches Elpis himself, but if you scout around Concordia once he's there, there's no container anywhere nearby.

Dollars to donuts this is when anything Angel related happens.

He has to. The Moonshot cannon can only be manually fired, and the fast travel system is down. Once you cut the jamming signal, Jack uses fast travel to get down to Elpis. That's one of the biggest reasons he tells you to shut down the jamming signal to begin with, because he's trapped on Helios until you do.

 

[Rayce Archer]

You know this just hit me when I started TVHM the other day.

Jack almost certainly doesn't stay on the station when he sends you down to Elpis. Why would he? It's full of men who want to shoot him, and we've already seen that he can't take them on his own. We also don't see how he reaches Elpis himself, but if you scout around Concordia once he's there, there's no container anywhere nearby.

Dollars to donuts this is when anything Angel related happens.

He has to. The Moonshot cannon can only be manually fired, and the fast travel system is down. Once you cut the jamming signal, Jack uses fast travel to get down to Elpis. That's one of the biggest reasons he tells you to shut down the jamming signal to begin with, because he's trapped on Helios until you do.

Which you all hear on the word of a dude who's already kind of a softcore supervillian. Consider that BEFORE the events of TPS, Jack has already:
-imprisoned his daughter and exploited her for technological advantage
-duped the vault hunters into killing the Destroyer so he could use its eye for his laser and get at Eridium
-I'm ASSUMING initiating the Claptrap rebellion, since he works pretty closely with Mr. Blake in 2, although that may have been Tassiter since he has such a boner for Claptraps and Jack kills all of them except the one that worked for him

So I think it would be a mistake to take anything Jack tells you at 100% face value.