Boss Fights

[RowdyRodimus]

Making games costs huge amounts of money, therefore game developers don't take risks. This is partly why they conform and include boss fights; they primarily want their game to sell. Also it gives differing pacing throughout the game.

Here's a way to help keep costs down on something that doesn't bring in a significant number of units sold- Quit hiring people like Patrick Stewart and Liam Neesam to do 15 minutes worth of dialogue. You know they make millions for the VO work and the reward does not justify the cost.

OT: I don't mind bosses, but the last boss should always be the hardest and not a walk in the park (I'm looking right at you Arkham Asylum) nor should it be like the old days where the last boss consists of every level boss you faced coming at you ome at a time with the main baddie waiting til you have one hit left.

 

[quantumsoul]

Demon's Souls had some interesting boss fights. There was even one where the boss was a randomly chosen player. It was fun when I got to the boss a couple times. Sucked to be the player that fought me

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I like my clothes and noone has ever condemned me because of what I wear.

That said, I do agree with him that boss fights should be like a final exam, not just a battle of attrition with the same weapons you've used the entire game.

Also, I'm kind of curious as to why he hasn't responed to the "Austrailian Swear Jar Law" I keep hearing about.

 

[Doragon Shinzui]

That is what I loved about Half Life 2. Running in guns blazing tended to not work so well as hanging back and using your wits. Like explosives you placed in the corner. Or the car you happen to be driving.
I also liked how Half Life 2 Ep. 1 (I still don't get that format. Wouldn't it be Half life 3 Ep. 1?) started off with a big pre exam. Old players got to enjoy the super gravity gun again, and new players got shown the ropes without undue complexity. I.E. you have a gun with unlimited ammo, here are some puzzles, have at it.
And that's where Ep. 2 failed in my opinion. The massive strider battle was alright, but the fact that you have to use those fiddly little bastards of a bomb make it frustrating to me at least.

 

[Helios Lives]

Oh joy, Yahtzee's discovered TV tropes.

 

[Aedwynn]

Absolutely agreed!

There is one type of boss battle I hate more than the gigantic health bar though; the boss with the inexplicable Achilles' Heel whilst being impervious to all other damage. How I hate thee!

I like a tough boss fight as much as the next guy but I think it should go like this - if I have a rocket launcher it will do damage to the guy no matter what he is made of - if I hit the guy's weak spot it will 'crit hit' and do more damage.

Now there is wiggle room in there but thats the formula that strikes me as being the least far removed from reality, assuming you are happy suspending your disbelief enough to think anything could survive ONE rocket in the face, never mind 10!

Expanding on the above - bosses with gigantic 'FUCK ME' lights where their weak points are. Bonus points if the boss is some kind of military vehicle or powered armour.

 

[NaramSuen]

I couldn't agree more with your latest column. There is nothing more frustrating then when you get to a boss and realize that you are completely up the creek because you have not levelled up enough, or you did not develop your character in the "right" way. I tend to avoid RPGs, especially JRPGs for this reason.

Also, there is nothing wrong with my Tintin shirt.

Cheers!

 

[Anarchemitis]

Sort yourself out, for god's sake. And buy nicer clothes.

Yes, Mum.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I agree. If we're to develop the games industry past catering to the ideologies of a primary school recess then we've got to get around the enigmatic boss fights in every game.

-And as one of the kids with more bravado during recess; boss fights have taken a decided nose dive into wussy-ness in the past 10 years or so. Targeting a larger audience requires dumbing down the material, as is blatantly apparent in Hollywood.

 

[Evilbunny]

Jokes on him, I'm not wearing a shirt!

Anyway yeah, good article. I agree that some games don't need a final boss. For example, Red Dead Redemption's ending mission was pretty hard, but there was no clear cut boss. That's fine in my opinion. The game's ending was supposed to be a tragedy, and if I had just finished taking down my biggest enemy it would feel more like a heroic death and would not be as tragic. That's just how I feel.

 

[infernovolver]

I was wearing a Dragonforce shirt when I read this article, so yahtzee can get a pass for that last paragraph from me.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

It's disturbing how many people just admitted reading in The Escapist in the nude. I feel slightly disgusted now.

Wait until THE FUTURE, where by law all commentards are required to include a picture of themselves at the moment of posting any comment on any forum.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

I beat system shock 2 on hard at first run without cheats.

Skill ups went into "normal" guns, agility, strength, and hacking. There was plenty of ammo for the assault rifle and you could switch between anti-personnel and armor-penetration for different types of enemies. I think I also put enough points into exotics to use the crystal shard, not sure.

Bosses whose only characteristic is a massive amount of hp=bad, bosses where you have to do something interesting to win (zelda, resident evil 4)=good.

Add maintenance and you have the perfect (if easiest to beat the game with) build right there. Had you played beforehand or did you get those skills by choice / good luck?

I re-played the game recently trying a psi and energy-weapons-based build. That's probably about as far from optimum as you can get! That's part of the fun of the game I think... although I don't think I could ever win by sinking all my points into "Repair" and "Modify"!

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

I beat system shock 2 on hard at first run without cheats.

Skill ups went into "normal" guns, agility, strength, and hacking. There was plenty of ammo for the assault rifle and you could switch between anti-personnel and armor-penetration for different types of enemies. I think I also put enough points into exotics to use the crystal shard, not sure.

Bosses whose only characteristic is a massive amount of hp=bad, bosses where you have to do something interesting to win (zelda, resident evil 4)=good.

Add maintenance and you have the perfect (if easiest to beat the game with) build right there. Had you played beforehand or did you get those skills by choice / good luck?

I re-played the game recently trying a psi and energy-weapons-based build. That's probably about as far from optimum as you can get! That's part of the fun of the game I think... although I don't think I could ever win by sinking all my points into "Repair" and "Modify"!

I picked those stats because in all RPGs I always choose powers that make me run faster (agility) and let me carry more stuff (strength). The SS2 strength mechanic of opening up more paper doll slots as you gain strength was completely brilliant.

I did look up all the available weapons beforehand and the skill level you needed for each so that made my choices more efficient but the page I saw didn't mention of their effectiveness. I skipped the explosives entirely so I missed out on grenade launcher and had one point in energy to burn through all the laser pistols I found.

Dammit now I want to play the game again but I'm afraid the graphics will just bother me.

 

[skitzo van]

Yeah Yahtzees right, I shouldn't wear my White Castle shirt.

 

[Gralian]

First off, i don't know why you chose to harp on a very mediocre game to begin with - Alpha Protocol failed across the board and it's an atrocious example to use for dissection, especially when it feels like a poor man's Mass Effect

Aside from that, have you ever seen TvTropes? It provides a wonderful insight into any and all kinds of 'unofficial' tropes ranging across any and all forms of media. These tropes weren't the basis of the culture, repetition of appearances across multiple forms of culture led to the general idea behind the trope. The tropes came from the material, rather than the material coming from tropes and the sum of its parts.

Boss fights are not an 'exam' as you call them where you're tested on your mastery of the gameplay mechanics. Otherwise the boss may feel cheap. But no, that is not what the boss stands for in gaming.

TvTropes has articles on what are known as 'The Dragon' and 'The Big Bad'. Bosses serve as a direct confrontation between the player and the Big Bad. Half-Life 1 had no Big Bad, so the boss fight felt arbitrary, as you say, and tacked on. But the fact they tacked on Gonarch (The Dragon) and Nihilanth (Big Bad) meant they were still adhering to well-known tropes and they served as a last-minute antagonists. It was clumsy, but it worked.
The reason people did not recieve the Half-Life 2 boss so well is that there was no Big Bad. It felt arbitrary by nature; hurl some balls around and along comes you-know-who to time-freeze everything and you're left thinking 'Wait... what?'

It feels unsatisfying. TvTropes also has lists for other tropes like the Quirky Miniboss Quartet and other members of villain groups, all who you can compare to boss fights in most games. It may seem arbitrary to you, but there is generally a reason why the trope is in place. Most tropes are placed there without a second thought, purely inconsequentially. But it works. You only happen to notice it and say 'oh look, it's the heel-face-turn trope' or 'hey look, they dropped a bridget on him'. Doesn't mean a long list of tropes were carefully planned by the development team to spoon-feed to the willing masses.

 

[Mangue Surfer]

Like bosses, exams make sense when the things are simple, in the early years of the school. As you progresses they stop make sense. You don't order PhDs with simple tests, you do complex considerations of the thesis he wrote. So, yes, if you going to made a shot'n up it's better put some bosses but if you made a more complex game at least you approach from the subject in a different way. Open for a wide range of solutions instead of a unique right answer.

 

[TheGreenGoblin]

When I saw the title of the article I thought "oh good, Yahtzee is going after Final Fantasy boss fights." Well he doesn't because I seem to have forgotten he's allergic to JRPGs, but here's my problem with boss fights.

I actually liked FF12 and 13 but I think Square Enix has forgotten how to actually create a boss.

In FF4, your first boss interacts with you. A disembodied voice asks you to turn around or face an ass whoopin'. It sets a tone of "oh shit, it's in here with us" and even better, puts you in a situation where you have to kill something that doesn't seem to be all that evil.

Also in FF4, you tangle with Golbez and his far-reaching schemes and after much effort and drama he is defeated and his secrets are revealed. Big shock, Golbez wasn't actually the source of all evil in the world and you must travel to an even further off land to find him.

Bosses used to have buildup. They were developed characters that you HATED because they killed Aeris. Yeah. Everyone razes villages, but Sephiroth made it PERSONAL. You bred chocobos just to smack that bastard in the face with Knights of the Round. And it felt GOOD.

So, FF13. Traipse along, and suddenly something with lots of HP comes by. Who the hell is that? OK it's dead. Just like all the other random whatsits around here. Hmmm. Next.

Worse, in FF13 you finally kill Big Evil and...he turns out not dead. He goes right on doing what he's doing in story mode as if you'd never killed him. Way to mug my sense of accomplishment, FF13. That Asshole had 3.6 million HP and I stopped him...yet he keeps going? I know rallying in the face of hopelessness and despair are motifs central to the FF13 storyline, but couldn't you at least show that 3.6 million damage hurt him? Can we at least reduce him to a feeble-bodied escape where he swears vengeance?

So, Square-Enix, let's review. Bosses are characters that we want to take down, and hard. They need development and dastardly deeds. I know you're worried about sales, but giving bad guys these things is free. Setting defense values and HP totals way above normal does not a boss make.

P.S.: Kindly refrain from that bullshit in FF12 where bosses are mighty because they just ignore your defensive items. That's cheap and removes our reward for 1) grinding to get those items and 2) working hard on the mathematics to break the game.