He did what he knew to be right despite possible negative consequences for himself. Why are we arguing about this?
Bradley manning, hero or villian?
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Manning did what was right.
Too bad the media over here in the United States is going to paint him as a villain no matter what happens. And as usual, the sheep (80% of the population who find it impossible to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions) are going to swallow it up like pudding via CNN, Fox News, etc.
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
Too bad the media over here in the United States is going to paint him as a villain no matter what happens. And as usual, the sheep (80% of the population who find it impossible to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions) are going to swallow it up like pudding via CNN, Fox News, etc.
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
Hero of course. The laws in question have been put in place not to protect the public but to protect corrupt people used to VERY LITERALLY getting away with murder. Manning has some balls on him, but he should have covered his own arse better if he wants to get in an arse kicking contest with a giant angry killer robot military-industrial complex porcupine.
What makes the U.S. so damn special? There's nothing we do that justifies the war crimes Manning exposes. If anything, the fact that our government is willing to do such atrocities shows it is they who deserve contempt. This type of fanatic nationalism is what leads to dictatorships. Do you really want to pave the way for this generations Fascist party?kiri2tsubasa said:
He was found guilty of that particular leak, so I would hope there was some evidence that he leaked it.Zakarath said:
He is a whistleblower, whistleblowers are both brave and necessary, I don't know about Hero. If he hadn't broken his oath he would have just been following orders. Not always the right thing to do.
I wouldn't say he is a hero but he is most certainly not a villain. Whilst the US government will say that his leaks lead to 'the enemy' getting military intel they also exposed some of the shit they have done and were covering up. And though some of the information may have compromised military informants in Afghanistan he wasn't directly responsible for publishing ANY of the information he just handed it to someone he thought could get the relevant documents to the public. So any harm that came to those people isn't blood on his hands.
Hero or villain? Well, that's a little bit too black or white, in my opinion. Yes, he did break certain laws and oaths, but "ethical" or "heroic" doesn't allways mean "lawfull" or "honest". Call him a traitor, call him unpatriotic, call him whatever you want, the guy chose to stay by his principles, and that's something that I can respect.
So be a mindless drone? This is why people hate the American Military.kiri2tsubasa said:
He is sworn to defend the US from enemies both foreign and domestic. That includes his own government and military. It's people like him who may one day speak out in defense of people like you if ever the corrupt govenment and it's friends come-a-knockin'. You're betraying him if anything.
uh-huh....
You would've made a great Nazi.
Nononono. You're country ALREADY committed war-crimes among other things. Bradley just revealed them.
OT:
Whistle-blowers are heroes. They put themselves on the line to provide us ALL with the truth. Anyone who thinks that the truth should be kept secret is just trying to preserve their own little lie.
Here's what happened when Manning took his "Heroic Actions"
Relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran were almost destroyed. As a result, operations to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon have been severely compromised.
Relations between North Korea and China are severely strained. As a result, operations to gather intelligence on their nuclear program are almost impossible.
Details on US Covert Operations have been released, meaning that the enemy now has a blueprint for how our Operators work. As a result, anyone in US or affiliated Special Operations is at severe risk.
Why is this a big deal to me? Because my friends and my family are now at risk because of this kid.
Bradley Manning can go rot in a cell for the rest of his miserable life.
Relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran were almost destroyed. As a result, operations to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon have been severely compromised.
Relations between North Korea and China are severely strained. As a result, operations to gather intelligence on their nuclear program are almost impossible.
Details on US Covert Operations have been released, meaning that the enemy now has a blueprint for how our Operators work. As a result, anyone in US or affiliated Special Operations is at severe risk.
Why is this a big deal to me? Because my friends and my family are now at risk because of this kid.
Bradley Manning can go rot in a cell for the rest of his miserable life.
Even the "Eternal Empire" didn't last forever. I get that people are pissed off when the number one world superpower status of their country is compromised, but did you seriously take that position for granted?alandavidson said:
Your family and friends are at risk because your country is running certain campaigns and operations.
What you're doing here is akin to being convicted of a crime and blaming your sentence on the person who reported you and testified against you instead on the fact that you committed a fucking crime.
Tough words. Those make a man feel big, huh?
Exposing what a government/military has done is not the same as exposing what they are planning to do or are currently doing. Because if it is something they have already done, then you can be pretty damn sure the target of it already knows about it. Most likely they knew about it well before it got leaked on account of it directly happening to them first hand rather than them waiting to hear about it 2nd or 3rd hand.
A government is supposed to represent the people, not rule them. As they represent us I think we are entitled to know anything and everything they are doing on our behalf. Obviously they should not release such information until after it has been finalized and everyone is out of harms way. Yes, under this system they can still do what ever the hell they want, but we get to hold them accountable for it so they don't get to think along the lines of "we have a green light to do what ever the hell we want, everyone o nuts!".
A government is supposed to represent the people, not rule them. As they represent us I think we are entitled to know anything and everything they are doing on our behalf. Obviously they should not release such information until after it has been finalized and everyone is out of harms way. Yes, under this system they can still do what ever the hell they want, but we get to hold them accountable for it so they don't get to think along the lines of "we have a green light to do what ever the hell we want, everyone o nuts!".
Let me make one thing perfectly clear. You are not entitled to me explaining anything for your benefit. So far I am still giving you the benefit of doubt that you're honestly interested in what I actually think, and not, say, trying to get more words out of me that you can misinterpret.Master of the Skies said:
But, whence, you ask, the analogy?
Well, he's upset at the person who pointed out an act that potentially endangers people instead of the person(s) who actually committed the act that potentially endangers people.
I could have also made the analogy of doing something behind your spouse's back you know she wouldn't like, then when you get dumped, you blame whoever told her what you did.
Or the analogy of cheating on a test, then blaming the supervising teacher when you get a negative grade.
Or the analogy of driving getting caught speeding, and blaming the cops for the fact you have to pay a fine.
Oh any other analogy of misdirected anger.
Just out of curiosity: whose bright idea was is to let this guy have access to all of our secret information, anyway? I mean, we're not talking about General Manning or even Sergeant Manning, we're talking about Private Manning. Why did he have access to all these secrets to begin with?
For all we know, every random enlisted guy in a similar position sold out his country for piles of foreign currency except him, who gave it all up for free. I feel pretty sure that there's a few somebodies with bags full of rubles and won who are upset about dirty rotten traitor Manning bringing about the derailment of their gravy train by making their access worthless.
For all we know, every random enlisted guy in a similar position sold out his country for piles of foreign currency except him, who gave it all up for free. I feel pretty sure that there's a few somebodies with bags full of rubles and won who are upset about dirty rotten traitor Manning bringing about the derailment of their gravy train by making their access worthless.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that follows. Also, are you asking me to show objective necessity? Because if you're doing that, you and I both know you're using a rather cheap tactic. And if you're not asking me to show objective necessity, you will need to accept any justification from any feasible perspective as valid.Master of the Skies said:
Again, needed according to whom? If you asked the man himself, he'd likely tell you it had to be done and that's why he did it.Master of the Skies said:
That's what I mean when I am talking perspective and "objective necessity" which is something you know a consensus on cannot exist.
Too many have either turned a blind eye to or done heinous crimes throughout the history of humankind, citing "we were only following orders", however, those of good conscience simply cannot do that all the time. Pvt. Manning had two options: be a mindless drone who sleeps with the US flag or expose the atrocities of the US government.
He was not a villain or a hero, instead he was being vigilant in the face of those who would clothe themselves in good deeds.
He was not a villain or a hero, instead he was being vigilant in the face of those who would clothe themselves in good deeds.
