BREAKING: Women of #GamerGate Make Breakthrough on HuffPo Live

[Thorn14]

To the people I was discussing with, sorry I stopped, RL stuff, and I'm glad we had a relatively civil discussion, I know I'm not very good at it but its been a fun talk to discuss the nature of reviews without it turning nasty.

Thanks.

 

[redlemon]

Here's a question:

If you thought gaming journalists were corrupt, what's stopping you from not reading the things they write?

Their lies have a negative effect on society. Why do we have laws against slander and libel?
The only problem is, gamers can't sue these people anymore than Muslims can sue anyone if they publish "Muslims are mostly made up of angry terrorists who hate freedom!"

Could you give an example?

Also to add, what you said doesn't actually answer the question.

Plenty of people are now spewing hate towards gamers. Not just Gamergate, but gamers in general. There was already a CEO who threatened to fire anyone just for being a gamer, regardless of whether or not they have anything to do with Gamergate. People have been doxxed and fired over their lies. Someone who makes a living off of Amazon is currently having their funds withheld.

What if the entire media started printing articles about how Muslims were intolerant terrorists while trying to silence anyone who disagrees by smearing them as a hate group? What if people believed it? What if the media started smearing sports fans as angry men who cause riots in stadiums, and smeared anyone who disagreed as a violent manchild?

So to answer your question, what's stopping me from simply not reading the things they write is my desire to avoid having our society turn to shit over some lies that promote hatred towards a specific group of people.

 

[WindKnight]

We might disagree on this, but I feel the journalistic standards of today's game journalism is closer than ever to these 'hack' news sites you mentioned.

Just a minor correction, but these are Newspapers, not sites. These tabloids have been around since before the internet was a thing.

Funny thing is, the Daily Mail specifically has been around since before the 2nd world war, was pro Hitler before the war, denied the holocaust untill there was incontrovertible proof and is as right wing as they come, blaming immigration for everything, and being oh so subtly homophobic and reactionary as possible.

Which made the fact GamerGaters labelled it as an 'SJW mouthpeice' after their Briana Wu coverage something that just made me burst out laughing.

 

[Mikeybb]

Is there any way we can fold this discussion into the larger thread?

You can request a merger here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team

Honestly, they'll probably merge or lock it anyway if the thread goes on much longer.

I'd feel a bit uncomfortable doing that underneath people talking, or the original poster.

I'm just trying to be conscious of the other users on the forum.

Some were expressing concern that there was a bit too much overspill with gamergate topics that could fit happily inside the main thread.

Trying to be a good nieghbour by suggesting it.

 

[Thorn14]

Is there any way we can fold this discussion into the larger thread?

You can request a merger here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team

Honestly, they'll probably merge or lock it anyway if the thread goes on much longer.

I'd feel a bit uncomfortable doing that underneath people talking, or the original poster.

I'm just trying to be conscious of the other users on the forum.

Some were expressing concern that there was a bit too much overspill with gamergate topics that could fit happily inside the main thread.

Trying to be a good nieghbour by suggesting it.

We could always make a "bias and opinions in reviews" thread on the Gamer Board. This has been a pretty interesting discussion. Both sides making good points.

 

[shrekfan246]

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

The promotional box-cover art was changed so that the lady character didn't have "boob window" anymore.

Let's ignore the fact that "boob window" was still very present within the actual game.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

It happened to the devs of Divinity Original Sin and it can happen to others.

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

It is paradoxical actually as I have no problems with changes that haven't been forced.

Define "forced". People argued that Bioware was "forced" to change the ending of ME3. Do you agree that this is the case?

EDIT: It appears you guys have talked all this to death up above, I replied before reading the parts of the thread I missed.

I'll snip out the parts that have already been mentioned through other quotes.
If you want me to elaborate on it just mention it and I'll do my best.

1. In relation to the cover changes, the person in question posted a blog if I remember correctly going about how they were forced to change it as someone saw it as sexist. I'll come back to you on this when I manage to find the blog post again. EDIT: Found the post: http://orogion.deviantart.com/journal/Save-the-Boob-plate-380891149
I don't agree with everything he says, but the fact that the change happened because of death threats and harassment I see as a problem.

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.
To be honest I feel they shouldn't have caved into the demands.

 

[Thorn14]

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

The promotional box-cover art was changed so that the lady character didn't have "boob window" anymore.

Let's ignore the fact that "boob window" was still very present within the actual game.

It was midriff, not boob window. Boob window is "covered except for a hole around the cleavage."

 

[redlemon]

What has this got to do with corruption and ethics in gaming journalism? Could you please link the two.

You asked me why I didn't just ignore the corruption and ethics in gaming journalism. I answered. Please quit trying to blame this on me when you're the one brought this up.

Literally nothing to do with ethics in gaming journalism.

They're lies. Last I checked, lying is unethical. It's an example of something related to journalism outside of gaming so you can draw parallels to it. Please quit deflecting.

How is you reading what they write stopping society from doing that? I don't see the connection. If you don't read it, then society will turn to shit? How?

Please quit distorting my words. It's incredibly intellectually dishonest.

 

[shrekfan246]

What, exactly, happened to the devs of Divinity? Last I checked their game was well reviewed and sold extremely well, and the developers seem happy as pigs in shit.

The promotional box-cover art was changed so that the lady character didn't have "boob window" anymore.

Let's ignore the fact that "boob window" was still very present within the actual game.

It was midriff, not boob window. Boob window is "covered except for a hole around the cleavage."

Eh, it was a combination of both, actually.

But fair enough. I forgot about the midriff portion.

 

[Fappy]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

 

[Thorn14]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

Sorry, I initially brought it up. I was just making the point that the Mass Effect 3 fiasco was the first clear sign of disconnect between journalists and gamers.

Erik Kain did a lot of good articles on it.

 

[Nirallus]

If you thought gaming journalists were corrupt, what's stopping you from not reading the things they write?

It's simply this - If the gaming press belongs to one clique, subscribes to one ideology, and speaks with one voice, they become the gatekeepers. If Bayonetta 3 comes out a few years down the road and they don't like it because they think it's sexist (or in general, "Game X is Y-ist because Z"), they'll release a barrage of articles saying "It's a terrible game, don't buy it" and they'll tank its metacritic score. Part of what fuels GamerGate is that we recoil at the censorious instinct that crowd* has always harbored. The nightmare scenario is a Comics Code Authority for video games. This time the line taken by moral busybodies isn't "comic books are corrupting our youth", it's "video games are rife with misogyny". We had a taste of it on August 28th with the Time On Target barrage of articles.

*Let's not call them "Social Justice Warriors" because justice is not part of their methods or goals.

Edit: Quoted more than I meant to.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

Opps, accidentally quoted you.

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

It doesn't matter, send me a pm if you want to discuss it, I'd rather not derail the thread.

 

[Fappy]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

Sorry, I initially brought it up. I was just making the point that the Mass Effect 3 fiasco was the first clear sign of disconnect between journalists and gamers.

Erik Kain did a lot of good articles on it.

I wouldn't say it was the first clear sign, but it definitely highlighted the problem.

 

[psijac]

Do you want a reviewer gave Every Call of Duty a 1 out of five because it doesn't reflect the true nature of the ground war in Afghanistan.

Personally? No, but someone might.

Hey look at that, my personal tastes don't set the benchmark for an entire industry designed to appeal to a vast cross section of people, imagine that. It's almost like I might have to undertake a cursory effort to find reviews I DO want, instead of demanding the entire industry change to only deliver reviews I want to read.

You do realize what you are arguing for is capitalism? Where anyone can put out anything because someone might buy into their bullshit. Would a game with graphic depictions of sexual assault be okay because someone might want that?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You do realize what you are arguing for is capitalism? Where anyone can put out anything because someone might buy into their bullshit. Would a game with graphic depictions of sexual assault be okay because someone might want that?

I think you'd probably have issues with violation of obscenity laws. Unless this hypothetical scenario of yours doesn't involve fussy elements like legality.

 

[Thorn14]

2. Yes I would argue it was forced, but the whole thing is a bit difficult, seeing as they 'lied' about the endings.

What lies?

Oh please God don't turn this into a Mass Effect 3 ending debate.

Don't make me get out my "Abandon Thread" gifs!

Sorry, I initially brought it up. I was just making the point that the Mass Effect 3 fiasco was the first clear sign of disconnect between journalists and gamers.

Erik Kain did a lot of good articles on it.

I wouldn't say it was the first clear sign, but it definitely highlighted the problem.

Oh yeah, its been bubbling for a while, and the ME3 thing was the first time that tension was really showing.

It got corked though though quickly enough, but it was never resolved, just bottled and ready to burst.

And here we are.

 

[redlemon]

No, no, no. I asked you why you don't just not read things journalists write if you think they're corrupt, not why don't you "just ignore the corruption and ethics in gaming journalism". Those two things are very different. You said because their "lies have a negative effect on society", which I asked you to give an example of (lies + it having a negative effect on society) and pointed out that doesn't actually answer the question I asked, which was "What's stopping you from not reading the things they write?".

You then brought up some examples of people that don't appear to be gaming journalists, so I have asked you to link what you said to corruption ad ethics in gaming journalism.

I don't see where you're getting the "Blame this on me" thing from, seeing I'm politely asking quite normal questions based on the things you've said. So, could you please link the two?

Ok then. I was talking about ethics. You asked me a question unrelated to ethics. I believed you were implying something with the question that was related to ethics but apparently I was wrong. So basically you just asked me a question unrelated to ethics and then when I answered, you respond with "what does this have to do with ethics". That's some wonderful misleading tactics you have there.

Em, no, you can't "draw parallels to it". It just simply doesn't have anything to do with ethics in gaming journalism, because it's just not about ethics in gaming journalism in any way.

Really? Does gaming journalism have a completely different set of ethics than other forms of journalism? Is lying to your audience in order to foster hate towards a group of people you don't like ethical in gaming journalism?

Could you clarify in what way I have distorted your words?

I don't believe I ever said "reading these articles is going to stop society from doing those bad things".

 

[DaViller]

How is you reading what they write stopping society from doing that? I don't see the connection. If you don't read it, then society will turn to shit? How?

It's simple, if someone gives bayonetta 2 a lower score because of oversexualisation, society goes to shit. This can be prevented if we demand that noone ever mentions oversexualisation in a review again and to do that we have to read the review first obviously.

It is also adviseable that we, just from time to time, dress up in elaborate costumes and fight corruption or sjws or cultural marxism or whatever. I think thats the general idea.