Building a mini ITX machine ?

[LostAlone]

Hey guys

I'm thinking of making my next PC a micro ITX machine for a few reasons, but for the purposes of this thread, lets just say that I'm curious at the kind of capabilities you can get with an ITX box. I'm looking to make a good (but not extreme) gaming machine as an upgrade for my current box, but I seem to be running into problems.

First off, to even consider calling something a good gaming machine it needs a decent graphics card, and to support that you need a lot of juice. However, a lot of ITX cases seem to come with pathetic PSU's (300w max) and use a weird standard so I couldn't change one out. So that rules out most of the ITX cases. I've found a few with better PSU's (The silverStone sugo SG07 has a 600w) and a couple with normal PSU slots (The Lian Li PC-Q11B) so at least there's some hope on that score.

However, the next thing I run into is space for the graphics card. Ideally I want to use the Lian Li case, so I can put in a mans power supply (700w+ modular) but no-one seems to know what graphics cards can and cant fit into it. Does anyone have experience of using this case, or just generally any advice on how to check the fit before I buy everything ? Will probably be putting in a GTX 460 or similar, and those are big cards.

Next up is heat. Always a problem. In this case, all the places selling ITX stuff seem to say that ITX systems are just loads more heat efficient and so don't need a whole lot of cooling. I just can't believe this. Sure, an Atom system is going to not need cooling, but thats not going to do what I want. I'm thinking of getting one of the Phenom II X6's, and I just have no idea what again if the cooler will fit, and if it does will it be adequate to cool the chip in such close confines. Again, anyone who has personal experience here, I'd love to hear from you!

So those are my practical problems. The vast majority of my storage is in NAS or removable drives, so thats not a worry, and I'm thinking of just putting a small SSD for the OS and having everything else outside the box.

As for the main components, I'm looking at a Phenom chip because I can't find a mini ITX board that will take an LGA1366 chip, so that my only route to 6 cores, and although thats not vastly important to me, it's actually a substantial upgrade from my current Core2Quad. I refuse to buy a new board and chip at fairly large expense to get only a little extra per core. Much better to get 400mhz more per core and add 2 more cores... Especially since it costs about the same.

So does anyone else have an ITX gaming rig ? I'd love to get the same performance from such a small unit, and I'm keen to know if they are all they are cracked up to be!

Edit -

On a more general note, is it best to combine AMD cpus and ATI gfx cards since the buyout ? And are ATI cards up to scratch with Geforce with the whole PhysX thing ?

 

[Imp Poster]

I used to have the shuttle one.

Spoiler

It was good. There was a good channeling system for the air blown in so I didn't have a cooling problem. Everything was surprisingly organized in a way where it worked for it's compact size. My main problem was video card space. Not only the length of the video card was the problem, but the thickness so those dual PCI slotted ones just wouldn't work.

I got one of those because my friends and I would have LAN parties to do WoW PvP so I just figured to lug it around would be easier. After so many WoW expansions and stuff, I wanted to upgrade to a better video card, but that was just not happening in that size case. My frustrations made me feel that I would have rather had a mid sized tower over this because mid size cases are that bad to lug around.

 

[Arachon]

I have no idea why you'd want to use an ITX board for a gaming rig. There's a good reason why those ITX cases come with low-power PSUs - it's because all of the power-hungry systems use ATX like God intended. I'm pretty sure that Mini-ITX is meant for nettops rather than gaming systems.

ATX? Surely you mean extended ATX, no?

 

[LostAlone]

@ RAKtheUndead - For the time being, like I said... Curiosity. A physically smaller box is a hell of a lot easier to lug to LAN parties, or to wherever I happen to be at the time. Also less space means that I don't have to be at a desk for optimum usage. Can fit an ITX case under the coffee table and game from the sofa... Thats the kinda thing that got my interest.

Assuming you can physically put the same pieces in the same case, why not go for the smaller form factor ? I mean its all personal taste and that, but still... If you can do it, why not do it ?

@Imp Poster - Aren't 'shuttle' type cases even tinier than the higher end ITX cases ? Kinda hard to tell without seeing them in context, but I'm fairly certain the ITX cases that I was looking at have more internal space and even have double expansion slots, so having a double-slot cooler wouldn't necessarily be a problem.

 

[Skorpyo]

Never fear! Your Escapist tech junkie is here!

...ahem...

After taking a quick peek around teh internetz for a bit, This is what I can tell you:

ITX boards have the same basic capabilities as normal machines, yes, but...

Cooling: The processor coolers used are mainly small and passive, just big enough to fill the inside of the case (depending on which case you use). Without a "Hunk-o-Metal" cooler(ask for it by name) and a fan on top of it, any of the more recent games that I'm sure you'll want this thing for will overheat the CPU, which causes it to "Clock-back" (cut down core speed) to prevent damage. This is HIGHLY unacceptable for ANY game.

Water cooling is out, too. Forever.

Power: As previously mentioned, all of the available PSU's for ITX cases are very low power, being typically in the 95W to 220W range. While this is good for, say, the family "internetting box" or a computer to run a home theater, games demand so much from your CPU and GPU that you just won't have the juice.

Size: Also previously mentioned. Most of the GPU's that are meant to be used by ITX boards are video cards that are roughly the size of a USB add-on card. They have a cut-down version of the regular sized cards core, and a much smaller on-card RAM cache. These cards are cheap, and they are MORE than powerful enough for incredible 2D video. Again, for Home Theater.

But, as for 3D, they are SIGNIFICANTLY under powered.


TL;DR: The tech available for ITX is not for gaming, even by a long shot. Give it time.

In the mean time, may I suggest you look into light-weight mini-ATX cases, made specifically for LAN-ing? They're easy to find, and cheap, too.

 

[pingviini]

I'm in the same market, and I have been researching mini-ITX gaming rigs.

Here is what I have put together so far:

Lian Li case http://www.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingItem.aspx?ItemList=N82E16811112265

Zotac 1156pin MoBo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500056

OCZ Modular PSU http://www.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingItem.aspx?ItemList=N82E16817341022

Pick any i3-i7 processor, almost any DDR3 RAM, any hard drive, and just about any video card, and you're set.

Haters gonna hate, don't listen to them. You will pay a premium for the reduced size, but I know in my case I move around a lot and want something that I can through in a carry on bag for a flight. I have a system with a GTS 450, momentus xt hybrid drive and an i3 in my shopping basket on newegg and it will only be ~750.


It should be more than enough to push most games at high graphics.

I'm working on a cheaper, AMD based system, but this should give you an idea of where to start.

 

[Zedayen]

A friend of mine built a mini-ITX box. When he brought it 'round tucked under one arm, we kind of laughed at him and referred to it as the "Kiddy Cube." Then we realised in its own way it was pretty cool. If you want a fair to average gaming machine that's also extremely portable, then it's worth looking into.