Bullying - how far can you go to defend from it?

[Jenova65]

That father did the right thing. Perhaps those idiots have learned a life lesson for once.

Lesson for life? How, when one of them is dead? That isn't teaching a life lesson, that is executing someone for bullying!

Though I don't believe he should have hunted down the teen he killed, they were way past the point of bullying when they were on his property with weapons. That is intent to do harm.

Dead! A 15/16 year old is dead! He was already avenged when he shot the child in the arm, surely? That is my point.

That father did the right thing. Perhaps those idiots have learned a life lesson for once.

Lesson for life? How, when one of them is dead? That isn't teaching a life lesson, that is executing someone for bullying!

It's a guy that has terrorized your family for the longest time, and then he shows up at your house to take revenge on you. You think you might want to defend yourself?

He didn't need to execute the kid, he should have restrained him after the first shot and called the cops. But as a hunter and gun owner, if people show up on my property that I know are hostile to me, I would do just what this guy did.

That again is my point, the first shot was at the very least, enough. A child is dead. The child might have been an asshole, but death? Community service or boot camp would have been suitable, not death.

15 Year olds are still kids?
Teenagers are very different from Children, He was a teenager, He was a **** nugget, He got what he deserved.

He was a child, and you do not know what his background was maybe he went home after school and got beaten by his dad, maybe he didn't, however by your standards - Bullying = death sentence, I respectfully disagree with you! Many teens are assholes, and go on to be better adults and make right the things they did when they were young!

He wasn't a child, he was a teenager.
It doesn't matter if he was abused by his father or not, you don't harass a mentally challenged kid, then go to his house during the middle of the night to beat the living shit out of him.
That kind of Bullying is just too far. I have an immense hatred for bullying. I stand by my point, he deserved what he got.

Teenagers are children in the eyes of the law! He was a child, he was an asshole, but yet again a death sentence was overkill, or we are just living in many of the games we play and if people can shoot someone dead for that sort of crime we are inches away from anarchy. I merely disagree with you is all, I hate bullying too my 18 year old son was pushed in front of a car by his bully when he was at school, I totally felt hatred for the kid, but kill him? No. We just disagree on this, simple.

*snip*

Then you need to clarify that. Your last statement clearly said that "executed for bullying" which it wasn't. It was executing for assault with a deadly weapon (at least here in the states). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault "assault may refer only to the threat of violence caused by an immediate show of force."

I don't know about you, but if a group of teens come onto my property, after putting my family through hell day in and day out, with a bunch of makeshift weapons, threatening my family, I'm going to be in a blind rage. It's easy to sit back and say "oh that's horrible, I would never do that", it's quite another scenario when you are the person defending yourself.

I never understood the whole "buck fever" mentality with hunting until I hunted myself. The adrenaline rush you get. The knowing that you have the power to take a life (no I don't hunt for sport, I hunt for meat, don't even try to start an argument about that crap [not directed at you Jenova65]} is incredibly exciting and sobering at the same time.

Heck, I just got done telling off a co-worker who regularly drinks/smokes pot and drives that he had better never get into an accident with me (statistic improbability, I know) or my wife or kids, and if he does, he better make sure I'm dead or incapacitated because though I know it's wrong, I'd have a very hard time not beating him to a bloody pulp. Crimes of passion happen because the logic portion of our brains sometimes are overwhelmed by the emotional portions, especially for individuals who have a very strong protective instinct, such as myself and quite a few other men. To not understand that is to choose to be oblivious to the fact that a huge number people are human (last time i checked) and ruled by more than just logic.

*snip*

Gotcha, I thought you meant the teens bring a shotgun. I could feel my rage meter rising. Glad I had you clarify. hehe =P

I don't live in the US guns are illegal here. And he was executed. The first shot to the arm was more than enough he was then helpless and running away (it almost becomes cold blooded at that point) Also guns pretty much trump most farm tools. But my point wasn't that they were wrong for defending themselves only the shot that killed.

Child in the eyes of the law...
He is a teenager in my eyes, and most others eyes aswell except for yours/
A 15 year old is not a fucking child.

There is no need to be offensive. I have been very polite and you are just being rude. He is (in Britain) as far as the law is concerned a child (and since I live in Britain, he is a child in my opinion) What he certainly isn't is an adult.
I will not reply to any more quotes you make on this if you continue to be offensive, it is pointless.

How exactly is that offensive? I was pointing out for the 100th time.
A 15 year old is not a child, "fucking" was added to try and get that point across, not to insult you.

OK, maybe not offensive (I apologise) but we just disagree you don't need to imply that only I think he is child He did not deserve death imo, that is all.

 

[DemonicVixen]

That father did the right thing. Perhaps those idiots have learned a life lesson for once.

We can wish but i know it never works that way.

 

[BlackJack47]

I think it was just to unload a shotgun at them, bullying little shits, not to sound too right wing but they would have just grown up and continued bullying people either in the workplace or what have you, or they would just be more criminal gang members, gang members that are more dangerous as adults.

 

[WillSimplyBe]

That father did the right thing. Perhaps those idiots have learned a life lesson for once.

Lesson for life? How, when one of them is dead? That isn't teaching a life lesson, that is executing someone for bullying!

Though I don't believe he should have hunted down the teen he killed, they were way past the point of bullying when they were on his property with weapons. That is intent to do harm.

Dead! A 15/16 year old is dead! He was already avenged when he shot the child in the arm, surely? That is my point.

That father did the right thing. Perhaps those idiots have learned a life lesson for once.

Lesson for life? How, when one of them is dead? That isn't teaching a life lesson, that is executing someone for bullying!

It's a guy that has terrorized your family for the longest time, and then he shows up at your house to take revenge on you. You think you might want to defend yourself?

He didn't need to execute the kid, he should have restrained him after the first shot and called the cops. But as a hunter and gun owner, if people show up on my property that I know are hostile to me, I would do just what this guy did.

That again is my point, the first shot was at the very least, enough. A child is dead. The child might have been an asshole, but death? Community service or boot camp would have been suitable, not death.

15 Year olds are still kids?
Teenagers are very different from Children, He was a teenager, He was a **** nugget, He got what he deserved.

He was a child, and you do not know what his background was maybe he went home after school and got beaten by his dad, maybe he didn't, however by your standards - Bullying = death sentence, I respectfully disagree with you! Many teens are assholes, and go on to be better adults and make right the things they did when they were young!

He wasn't a child, he was a teenager.
It doesn't matter if he was abused by his father or not, you don't harass a mentally challenged kid, then go to his house during the middle of the night to beat the living shit out of him.
That kind of Bullying is just too far. I have an immense hatred for bullying. I stand by my point, he deserved what he got.

Teenagers are children in the eyes of the law! He was a child, he was an asshole, but yet again a death sentence was overkill, or we are just living in many of the games we play and if people can shoot someone dead for that sort of crime we are inches away from anarchy. I merely disagree with you is all, I hate bullying too my 18 year old son was pushed in front of a car by his bully when he was at school, I totally felt hatred for the kid, but kill him? No. We just disagree on this, simple.

*snip*

Then you need to clarify that. Your last statement clearly said that "executed for bullying" which it wasn't. It was executing for assault with a deadly weapon (at least here in the states). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault "assault may refer only to the threat of violence caused by an immediate show of force."

I don't know about you, but if a group of teens come onto my property, after putting my family through hell day in and day out, with a bunch of makeshift weapons, threatening my family, I'm going to be in a blind rage. It's easy to sit back and say "oh that's horrible, I would never do that", it's quite another scenario when you are the person defending yourself.

I never understood the whole "buck fever" mentality with hunting until I hunted myself. The adrenaline rush you get. The knowing that you have the power to take a life (no I don't hunt for sport, I hunt for meat, don't even try to start an argument about that crap [not directed at you Jenova65]} is incredibly exciting and sobering at the same time.

Heck, I just got done telling off a co-worker who regularly drinks/smokes pot and drives that he had better never get into an accident with me (statistic improbability, I know) or my wife or kids, and if he does, he better make sure I'm dead or incapacitated because though I know it's wrong, I'd have a very hard time not beating him to a bloody pulp. Crimes of passion happen because the logic portion of our brains sometimes are overwhelmed by the emotional portions, especially for individuals who have a very strong protective instinct, such as myself and quite a few other men. To not understand that is to choose to be oblivious to the fact that a huge number people are human (last time i checked) and ruled by more than just logic.

*snip*

Gotcha, I thought you meant the teens bring a shotgun. I could feel my rage meter rising. Glad I had you clarify. hehe =P

I don't live in the US guns are illegal here. And he was executed. The first shot to the arm was more than enough he was then helpless and running away (it almost becomes cold blooded at that point) Also guns pretty much trump most farm tools. But my point wasn't that they were wrong for defending themselves only the shot that killed.

Child in the eyes of the law...
He is a teenager in my eyes, and most others eyes aswell except for yours/
A 15 year old is not a fucking child.

There is no need to be offensive. I have been very polite and you are just being rude. He is (in Britain) as far as the law is concerned a child (and since I live in Britain, he is a child in my opinion) What he certainly isn't is an adult.
I will not reply to any more quotes you make on this if you continue to be offensive, it is pointless.

How exactly is that offensive? I was pointing out for the 100th time.
A 15 year old is not a child, "fucking" was added to try and get that point across, not to insult you.

OK, maybe not offensive (I apologise) but we just disagree you don't need to imply that only I think he is child He did not deserve death imo, that is all.

I'm with Jenova. After shooting someone once, reloading, chasing them down, and shooting them again to kill them is just too far.

 

[Marlun_42]

I was right with the dad through to the shot in the arm. It was a bit of overkill (no pun intended) after that, but given the guy's mental state at the time, it probably shouldn't be held against him too much. I can easily imagine getting carried away if someone were to be threatening my family. I don't think you'd want to wait even the 5 minutes for the police if a group of people (teenagers or otherwise) with weapons seems ready to break into your home and hurt you. A lot can happen in 5 minutes.

 

[Borrowed Time]

*snip*

In some cultures the age of 13 is the "age of manhood". Teenagers are just as capable of making responsible choices as the rest of society. They just have a higher risk taking ratio then 18+ adults. A big portion of why teenagers aren't legally considered adults is because of the voting age. Teens are much more impressionable then adults, therefore it's easier to sway them one direction or another (not saying that's the only reason, just using it as one example).

I can understand where you come from with the whole "executed" thing, and to some point I agree. I stated that he was wrong to actually kill the teen in my first post I believe. What I'm trying to convey though, is that I understand where the father came from as well when I put myself in his situation. Though I can easily say "I would never do that," I know that given the circumstances, I'm not entirely sure how I would react in that situation. People don't think clearly under a high stress, adrenaline rush, fight-or-flight mindset. Does that make it ok? Of course not. Turning it into cold blooded murder though? Not so much. That's a crime of passion at most which can regularly (here in the states) be taken down to manslaughter.

BTW, guns aren't illegal in Britain. You can get a shotgun permit. http://www.gunrunner.cc/firearms_laws.htm

 

[Arcticflame]

Wtf? The amount of people saying it was ok for the guy to kill the kid is astounding.
Shoot the kid when he is harassing your family on your property is one thing. But once the kid is fleeing for his life you know the guy is going way over the top, and chasing the kid down and shooting him deserves a harsh criminal sentence.

The kids being a problem that is difficult to deal with sounds like a problem with how they are being handled, or the laws of the area. It's not an excuse which allows retribution, or "dealing" with the problem in that respect. because when it comes down to it, the man has performed a worse deed than the bullies did. He murdered someone, the bullies haven't gone that far. He has gone from being the harassed victim to a worse criminal than the instigators.

The 15-16 year old kids (all about 6 of them) turned back to face the house. The father instinctively shot the closest one in the arm

Instinctively? Please explain.

 

[Rhade]

Bullies, of almost any age or context, are pretty much all asking for it, when it comes to retaliation. Deadly force seems as good a counter as anything, as they usually deserve to piss themselves in fear as a turnaround, or just for the enjoyment of whomever they annoyed.

 

[Slash Dementia]

I was on the father's side until he gunned him down after he shot his arm. He shot him once. Call the cops. I'm aware that he has mental disorders, and he might not have been able to control himself...and the leader was on their property with weapons and threatening his son.

 

[silentsentinel]

Props to that man.

 

[Cherry Cola]

It's a dog eat dog world.

I get that a lot of people say that it was wrong of him to kill that kid, but if I was in his shoes, I would kill him too.

It has nothing to do with justice. It is retribution.

 

[Arcticflame]

It's a dog eat dog world.

I get that a lot of people say that it was wrong of him to kill that kid, but if I was in his shoes, I would kill him too.

It has nothing to do with justice. It is retribution.

You would shoot a 16 year old dead when he was fleeing for his life? I just cannot understand how this is acceptable in any way. He obviously wasn't a good kid by any measure, but what you are saying is that you would kill another kid in cold blood because he bullied your kid.

 

[slowpoke999]

I can't defend the Father past the boy running away after being shot. Seriously shooting him in the arm to scare them off, that's ok.Chasing them down when they literally did nothing but gather around there house, that isn't right. And I'm the type of person who would kill anyone, and i mean anyone who tried to kill my family.

If they were loaded with guns then it would've been different but yeh, shooting someone who was running when they haven't done anything past bullying is wrong.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Snip

I'm with you all the way.

Teenagers are children in the eyes of the law!

What does that have to do with anything? Just because the law says a 15-year old is a child doesn't mean that I have to think so. The law exists so that we can have clear rules in society, it doesn't exist so that it can impose it's own morals on people.

 

[Borrowed Time]

It's a dog eat dog world.

I get that a lot of people say that it was wrong of him to kill that kid, but if I was in his shoes, I would kill him too.

It has nothing to do with justice. It is retribution.

You would shoot a 16 year old dead when he was fleeing for his life? I just cannot understand how this is acceptable in any way. He obviously wasn't a good kid by any measure, but what you are saying is that you would kill another kid in cold blood because he bullied your kid.

For fuck sake.
He is not a kid, how many fucking times do I have to say it? 15+ Year olds are NOT kids.

Not only that but it was way past bullying. The thread title is pretty misleading especially if you didn't actually read the story.

 

[Kiju]

I suppose Justice is blind in its own ways.

It's hard to decide whether vigilante justice is good or bad; yes it's good in that you can get back at someone who has wronged you in the past, but at the same time it's bad due to the fact you aren't acting within the constraints of the law, thus making what you do back, even worse.

It's a loaded question, really. Yes he was wrong for going that far, but in reality he was defending himself and his family, who was being harassed and threatened. A gang arrives on one's doorstep, armed with weapons that could probably inflict great bodily harm. While the legal thing to do, would be to take it and report it to the police, the 'easier' route would be to retaliate.

 

[Space Spoons]

It seems to me that the minute these gang members gathered outside the family home with "improvised striking tools" was the minute their personal safety became forfeit. We don't know for sure that they would have attacked if the father of the family had come outside unprepared to defend himself, but the fact of the matter is that these kids had a history of violent misbehavior, and were gathering outside with weapons. That, to me, seems reason enough to act in self defense.

That said, if the father was such an experienced and skilled hunter, he should have shot at the knee, or to otherwise disable. I don't blame him for wanting to end it once and for all, but it was far too big a risk to take.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Shoot them all, let God sort them out.

And since I don't believe in God, just shoot them all and let them rot in the ground. Why tolerate it when you can do something about it? We're not talking about the united states here, they don't have a consitution that says you have to be tolerant or a police force to back it up, so paint your front porch red as a message to every other punk out there.