Bungie's Banhammer Hits Destiny Players Using Modded Consoles

Hairless Mammoth

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Jan 23, 2013
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yamy said:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't there also 'legitimate' instances of modding consoles, such as running homebrews or custom OS/software?

I understand in the US at least everything that circumvents access control is deemed illegal under DMCA but it still sucks that people can be banned for potentially (morally at least) legitimate uses of modding.
Well, Sony, MS and Nintendo will whine in court until the heat death of the universe that any mod will open a floodgate of piracy. The underlining thing they don't talk about is they want to be able to use every internet connected console as another conduit to pump ads into your home.

From this US citizen's perspective, the DMCA is a anti-consumer monster that needs to be repealed, and a new law that doesn't turn everyone beyond the basic user into a criminal but addresses legitimate copyright concerns needs to be made. To bad Congress is full of people from both parties that are in the pockets of major media companies and, no matter what party the president is, it's a coin toss whether he vetoes any bill about copyright/patents that comes his way.
RicoADF said:
If this ban makes the user's game unplayable I'd like to see those effected sue the company as they've taken away a game they paid for without cause.
I'd bet the terms of service state something about them being able to ban people for certain behavior, so it would be an uphill battle. Some jurisdictions might say the banned customers can get the full purchase price or a portion of it back.

Plus, the DMCA will rear its ulgy head at anyone in US trying to fight. The only good victory we really had against it the the legality of jailbreaking iCrap. But, I'd love for a case to finally decide whether these EULAs in the US are the jokes that they should be or if consumers here are really pawns to megacorps.
 

IceStar100

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Rornicus said:
Scorpid said:
RicoADF said:
People have every right to mod their console all they want, once your purchase the device you can install whatever chips you want into it. Bungie of all companies has no right to issue bans for having modded consoles. If they were using pirated games that'd be another matter, but if it's only for the console being modified they should remove the ban immediately.

If this ban makes the user's game unplayable I'd like to see those effected sue the company as they've taken away a game they paid for without cause.
My thoughts exactly. Bungie is acting like mob enforcers for MS so that the console is used in the best way possible for MS to monetize it after purchase at the cost to the consumers rights for that product. This is despicable and makes me even more happy that I haven't wasted my money on either product.
The ability to modify a console does not also convey the right to access a proprietary network using modified hardware. Mod all day long - just don't expect to be given the keys to the kingdom too.

Here's a real world example: I can choose to wear anything I want to work, but if there is a dress code and I'm not within it, I can also be sent home to change/denied access to the building/etc. I've done nothing illegal, but I also can't go to work that day.

Just because you can do something does not mean that there are no consequences for it.

Edit: Typo
No this would be more like going to a theme park and being disallowed to enter because of dress. However once they take your money you are required to either not take their money or return it unless they have done something illegal or disruptive to other. Like talking in a movie theater even then most will return the money to avoid hassle later. They have taken people money and now refuse to do what was the agreed on transaction.
 

RicoADF

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Hairless Mammoth said:
I'd bet the terms of service state something about them being able to ban people for certain behavior, so it would be an uphill battle. Some jurisdictions might say the banned customers can get the full purchase price or a portion of it back.

Plus, the DMCA will rear its ulgy head at anyone in US trying to fight. The only good victory we really had against it the the legality of jailbreaking iCrap. But, I'd love for a case to finally decide whether these EULAs in the US are the jokes that they should be or if consumers here are really pawns to megacorps.
Well in the EU and here in Australia EULA's are irrelevant, I would suspect that the user would easily hit them with the department of fair trading laws on refunds at the very least. We've paid for the service and if the bans are for just modifying consoles then they have no legal right to ban the user especially since the console isn't even Bungie's.

I agree the US seriously needs to join the rest of us regarding consumer law.
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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What a bunch of assholes.

RicoADF said:
I agree the US seriously needs to join the rest of us regarding consumer law.
EULAs DON'T hold up in US court most often because they are too far reaching. A game company can make up anything it wants, doesn't mean it's law. They just bank on most consumers not having the money to fight it.
 

RicoADF

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Nurb said:
EULAs DON'T hold up in US court most often because they are too far reaching. A game company can make up anything it wants, doesn't mean it's law. They just bank on most consumers not having the money to fight it.
The problem is that they need to spend the money taking it to court to challenge it, rather than what we have where there's a department which will do it on our behalf. Guess the real issue is there's no such department then perhaps?
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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May 15, 2010
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You certainly have the right to mod your console. The company that runs whatever network you connect to also makes the rules of how you connect to that network, its a privilege not a right. Therefore you don't have the "right" to use a modded console on PSN or XBL if Sony and Microsoft say they don't want you to do so.
If Bungie decides they don't want you playing on their servers on a modded console, they also have that right. They run the servers, they run the game. Its their rules in the end, whether you like that or not. Its not a legality issue, its their security policy.
Beyond that no one has a dog in the fight, you can complain but it won't change anything.
And regarding the whole "but people use different O/S on their console" argument isn't valid. Also I'd hazard a guess more people mod their consoles to play burned ISOs than people who use different O/S's so... well sorry thats that.
 

Scorpid

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IceStar100 said:
Rornicus said:
Scorpid said:
RicoADF said:
People have every right to mod their console all they want, once your purchase the device you can install whatever chips you want into it. Bungie of all companies has no right to issue bans for having modded consoles. If they were using pirated games that'd be another matter, but if it's only for the console being modified they should remove the ban immediately.

If this ban makes the user's game unplayable I'd like to see those effected sue the company as they've taken away a game they paid for without cause.
My thoughts exactly. Bungie is acting like mob enforcers for MS so that the console is used in the best way possible for MS to monetize it after purchase at the cost to the consumers rights for that product. This is despicable and makes me even more happy that I haven't wasted my money on either product.
The ability to modify a console does not also convey the right to access a proprietary network using modified hardware. Mod all day long - just don't expect to be given the keys to the kingdom too.

Here's a real world example: I can choose to wear anything I want to work, but if there is a dress code and I'm not within it, I can also be sent home to change/denied access to the building/etc. I've done nothing illegal, but I also can't go to work that day.

Just because you can do something does not mean that there are no consequences for it.

Edit: Typo
No this would be more like going to a theme park and being disallowed to enter because of dress. However once they take your money you are required to either not take their money or return it unless they have done something illegal or disruptive to other. Like talking in a movie theater even then most will return the money to avoid hassle later. They have taken people money and now refuse to do what was the agreed on transaction.
Your example only works if you buy the building and own the building and they guy you bought it from comes back says that you can't repaint the walls or move the chairs or change the light bulbs are install any new feature into the building he didn't sell it to you with. The article didn't establish if the modified consoles had anything to do with bungie or networking just that the consoles had been modified. And since we're dealing with corporations you can safely assume they fucked consumer rights in the process.
 

Augustine

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Jun 21, 2012
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Oh look, the new gen of consoles is sooo powerful, better than PC! But don't you dare touch it in any way like you would any PC, because that's tampering, and we will beat you to death with a stale baguette for that.
Ain't progress grand?
 

Kameburger

Turtle king
Apr 7, 2012
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It's these kinds of things that always make you a little nostalgic for the old days. As much as I don't miss cheating in games like counter strike, I sort of always had this feeling that the overlords at various companies stepping in would do more harm then good.

At least when people cheated way back when it pushed me to want to learn more about how to combat cheating, how to use server tools better, it got me to make friends with people that I shared servers with, and I'm not going to lie back and forth server wars had their fun points too.

Having a big corporation wield its banhammer to kick out people who may not even be cheating in their game is a bit of an over reach at least in my opinion.
 

LaoJim

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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
You certainly have the right to mod your console. The company that runs whatever network you connect to also makes the rules of how you connect to that network, its a privilege not a right. Therefore you don't have the "right" to use a modded console on PSN or XBL if Sony and Microsoft say they don't want you to do so.
Thanks for saying this, I'm surprised there are so many people defending the process. If you want to mod your console and run Linux or whatever, great, but then once the chips has been replaced there is no way for Sony/MS/Bungie to guarantee to other players that you aren't cheating when you play multi-player games. Insisting on virgin boxes (oo-er missues obviously) is perfectly reasonable. Yes, it also has the additional advantage for the companies that it allows them to police pirate games, but I don't see why that's a bad thing.

Sure if you are a legit player who also wants to run an OS on the box at the alternate times it kind of sucks, but then the policies on this kind of thing are fairly clear from the outset and there are good reasons for it. I'd be interesting in knowing whether it is technically feasible for a console to have a 'modded'/'unmodded' switch; that is to say a mode where anything can be run and a mode where the data is locked down and guaranteed to run as specified by MS/Sony (and hence cheat-proof). It seems you could do this by having an encryption key on the unmodded side and all programs and save files encrypted and kept completely walled off from the modded side. Anyway feasible or not, its unlikely that either company would put the effort in.
 

Rornicus

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Jan 26, 2010
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Scorpid said:
Your example only works if you buy the building and own the building and they guy you bought it from comes back says that you can't repaint the walls or move the chairs or change the light bulbs are install any new feature into the building he didn't sell it to you with. The article didn't establish if the modified consoles had anything to do with bungie or networking just that the consoles had been modified. And since we're dealing with corporations you can safely assume they fucked consumer rights in the process.
I think you missed the point here. You bought a console. You modded it. That's fine, all is happy and fun. You're playing your burned games; playing around with linux on an xbox, whatever.

But then you then tried to access a proprietary network/server, where one of the policies is that you can't have a modded console. Regardless of if you have paid for the ability (not right) to access said network/server, if you aren't within the policies of access to that network/server, you might not be able to get in.

Bungie didn't ban people from XBL/PSN. They banned access to THEIR servers from consoles they deemed outside of the access policies.

To use your example again - you bought a house with a well, refit all the plumbing to how you want it, but are upset when the county won't let you hook you up to the water main for any number of reasons - incompatibility, you installed a pump to send stuff back into the mains, whatever.

Again - your actions have consequences. Just because you don't like those consequences doesn't mean they are unjust.
 

Chaos Isaac

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I'm laughing at so many of these comments. I find them too amusing.

I'm not sure of the terminology being used here. Under what specifics is Bungie using to register 'modded'? Is it messing with things to get advantages in games, or what? Is it any change from the product line interior bits? Hell, I dunno, so I can't really say if it's good or bad.

But, if it inconvenienced someone trying to cheat. Yay.

Someone who wasnt? Boo.
 

MHR

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I don't know how owners of modded consoles expect anything different. It's their networks, why should they have to allow pirating or cheats or any of that garbage?

You bought your console, great. Modify it all you want. Put in new chips, new hardware, slap on rad decals, strap a fire extinguisher to it on a rolling office chair and call it "gaming-on-the-go," it's your friggin console. You didn't buy the network, idiot. They warned you, and they'll ban you from it if they want to.
 

balberoy

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Aug 19, 2011
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Just because they can does not mean it is "fair" or "benelovent".

They sell you a game.
You buy this game.
They have the servers you play on.
You mod the console (for whatever reason).
They don't allow you to play.

Really, because you could cheat? Honestly what they are doing is screwing over customers.

Are you at this very moment sitting at a table with a computer an typing?
Then you Sir have to be a cheater, so we ban you on all games.
Only when you play on a console you are allowed to play any multiplayer game!
This is what we, Activision, god of all game companies, tell you.
Abide or be damned (banned).

This has to be coming from MS or Sony. Really you can't log in with a pirated game to play online games.
Cheating should not be possible if the game was programmed with any knowledge of cheaters or cheating software.

But it is Bungie, probably they know jack shit about cheating and haven't built in any anti-cheat software.
Shooting with cannons on ducks.
 

WouldYouKindly

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That's a bit much. Unless you can find some player reports that they actually are cheating, you shouldn't ban someone who probably gave you money for doing what they want with their property.

If they say what kind of modifications would result in a ban, I'll listen and change my opinion based on that. Until then this seems like a blanket ban that fucks with pirates and cheaters, but also with people who just like to tinker.

Finally, it's not like being locked out of Destiny is that bad. I don't need a humorless Borderlands in my life anyway, not that I'm liable to get it anyway on account of only gaming on PC these days.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Well good, kinda. Good if it caught some of the cheaters I have run into in the crucible. Bad if it caught people who never cheated in this particular game.