By God we're dumb.

kyouger

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Jun 22, 2008
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So everyone over 30 is smarter than kids? Really. Check this out:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pg7PB4ytTJ0
Look, I could answer at least 3/4 of those questions, and I've never studied in my life. Most of the things I learn from surfing the internet, finding out new things and sometimes I even find them out in games. And seriously, how many sides does a triangle have? Good frigging lord.
 

Unknower

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Jun 4, 2008
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I believe embiggening your vocabulary is perfectly cromulent.

Anyway, here's a pretty interesting link: http://hnn.us/articles/1732.html

"This page lists articles about the teaching of history, focusing in particular on studies which demonstrate the historical ignorance of Americans." And others too, like British and Italians.

My history teacher once read an answer someone from our class had written in a test. There was a question about imperialism and Africa and the student had written as one reason for imperialism was "to raise awareness of AIDS."

Teacher was kinda confused should he complain a lot or just laugh.
 

geldonyetich

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Aug 2, 2006
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The fellow's fallen down the slippery slope of believing that, unless you've read great literature and studied world events, you're a moron. That's really not true. The digital generations understands that this kind of "book knowledge" is largely static, unless piece of information that, more often that not, simply gets in the way of trying to integrate themselves into modern society.

Ultimately, this fellow's been teaching too long. His world is framed with the idea that you need to know these things to function because that's what he teaches all the time. Then you get out into the real world, and that's simply not the case. With the information age came information overload, and kids have to be a lot more savvy about the kind information that really matters to them - that's all that's really happening.

What you really need to worry about is deliberate ignorance - defined a desire not to learn or be reasonable because your convictions are so strong they prevent you from opening your eyes. As Al Gore is pointing out in The Assault On Reason, it's very politically savvy these days to ignore facts. These are our leaders, the peers of the country, and we come to learn from this behavior that it's better to be ignorant and "right" than it is to be intelligent and correct.

That kind of mindset is a far greater threat to intelligence than somebody who doesn't know a little history or terminology.
 

DraftPickle

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Oct 20, 2007
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I'll try and keep it SHORT. This thread makes me laugh because so many people are trying to use complex words to try and shift themselves above an idiot teenager.

ANYWAY I blame education system completely, in English lessons why do they use books such as Silas Marner and An Inspector Calls, yes they're good but teenagers don't give a shit about a book written before electricity. These uninteresting and unappealing books (at least to teenagers) put teenagers off literature and reading, if they used more relevant books e.g Harry Potter, Da Vinci Code, yes they are longer than the above books but they're more captivating than the older books (again to teenagers), it would encourage teenagers to read on and learn.

OR maybe the system is like that so people stay supressed and do not cause trouble and protests as the government takes the publics money. *Leaves and listens to Rage Against The Machine*

/Edit*** People need to listen to more meaningful music like Rage, and sorry this wasnt short at all.

/Edit**** I am 15 from England so I'm actually insulted by the douchebag in the video, fucking capitalist trying to plug his book. Peace Out.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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DraftPickle said:
teenagers don't give a shit about a book written before electricity.
Then teenagers are stupid. Sorry.

if they used more relevant books e.g Harry Potter, Da Vinci Code,
...
Harry Potter being about...wizardry...so way before (and not using) electricity; and the Da Vinci Code, which is generally classed by most writers as "A boring pile of dingo's kidneys"

Seriously, do you want Katie Price's biog on there as well?
People need to listen to more meaningful music like Rage,
RATM have a very meaningful repetoire, it's just a pity that they're so far within the State now that they don't even qualify to listen to their own music.
I am 15 from England so I'm actually insulted by the douchebag in the video, fucking capitalist trying to plug his book. Peace Out.
On this we can agree, but dude, people were saying the same thing about Velvet Underground, The Sex Pistols and the like before you were even thought of.

There's a tonne of books pre-electricity that are going to be worth reading a thousand years from now; don't hang yourself up on RATM telling you that anyone over 20 is dead from the neck upwards, because...well...they are as well.
 

DraftPickle

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Oct 20, 2007
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Yeah but us teenagers are only stupid because of the environment we're raised in and the fact with only short life we have little life experience. Yeah sorry about the books, in England we analyse the book on things like dramatic irony, structuring, I odnt whats its like in the land of the free :D. WHAT THE FUCK YOU ON ABOUT KATIE PRICES BIO IS A TIMELESS PIECE OF LITERATURE. I only said the thing about electricity to emphasise how old they are. lots of love.........ew
 
Feb 13, 2008
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DraftPickle said:
Yeah but us teenagers are only stupid because of the environment we're raised in and the fact with only short life we have little life experience.
Nah, John Galt's 15, and there's a lot of smart teenagers here.
Yeah sorry about the books, in England we analyse the book on things like dramatic irony, structuring, I odnt whats its like in the land of the free :D.
Neither do I, I'm Midlands based. :)
WHAT THE FUCK YOU ON ABOUT KATIE PRICES BIO IS A TIMELESS PIECE OF LITERATURE.
Pity she doesn't write any of her books though. Damn Ghostwriters.
I only said the thing about electricity to emphasise how old they are. lots of love.........ew
Heh. Read Macbeth sometime. It's got lots of guts and swordfights. :)
 

DraftPickle

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Oct 20, 2007
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"Nah, John Galt's 15, and there's a lot of smart teenagers here"

So when you said teenagers are stupid you didn't mean it? trying not to be cocky but I'm part of the education system I'm in it so I think i have quite a good handle on why most teenagers dont like reading ANNNND You ever read the Da vinci Code? its frickin awesome. BTW Never read Tom Clancy book they are shite! AND Rage arent that in state

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=55O0DBt7YpE nyah! hehehe bye.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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I was a teacher and my family are teachers, so I've got a good handle on it as well. :)
DVC is possibly one of the worst written books I've ever read, there's a good story there, but the Rosicrucian's were old news back in the early 80's.

Rage do a lot of shouting, but they're not half as good as they used to be.

Want a good read? The Watchmen. Rorschach will be right up your street.
 

Random Argument Man

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Quote from Wulf Legend: He brought up history and culture multiple times in his explanation. To me, history is irrelevant. It's interesting, but irrelevant. Culture would be a good thing to know if you travel a lot. Which most of us don't. So personally I can regard it as irrelevant as well. Interesting, but irrelevant. And with our social networking, we can find out about others' cultures simply by meeting people all over the world. I talked to a lot of English at one point and learned a lot of how it's like over in England.[/quote]

History irrelevant eh? Ok.
-While your at it, let's ignore what happened during the times of the crusades, nazi germany, the french revolution, etc.
-Truth is, history is when you learn why things act like they are. Without history, you woudnt know why you can talk and have a free conscious.
By neglecting history, it's kinda like you neglect all the things that you have learned from your experiences.
-Great you meet someone on the internet, thing is, when you ask "why this is offensive in your country (or culture)". People will relate to history.

Sorry about this, but my major is in history. Your not the first who said something like that, but it gets to me every time.
 

BallPtPenTheif

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Jun 11, 2008
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AntiAntagonist said:
Anyway, I've become tired of the many threads that say that most people are dumb. I like being at this end of the bell curve, and I only get annoyed at the stupids when they're irritable.
but isn't that the cliched perspective. i mean we wouldn't have socialism, communism, and welfare if we didn't have contempt for the intelligence of our peers. it almost seems that every person at sometime in their life says the phrase, "this planet is filled with morons".

and i think that mentality says more about the arrogance of every individual than it does about the intelligence of the masses.
 

DraftPickle

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Oct 20, 2007
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So do you agree with me on the whole book thing? BTW thank you for not going " well we both agree the guys a douche lets move on" because not getting to the end of an arguement REALLY fucks me off, you? can add you, you appear to be one of the ten intelligent people on the internet (your not a super-nerd are you?). You ever read 1984 by George Orwell that is fucking read. Also the guy above me has a good point.
 

DraftPickle

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Oct 20, 2007
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Sorry Im starting to talk at you now but I hate how some of the older generation simply shun the younger generation because of there blind views (see the irony?) when if they were really bothered they would try and help us saying we are kinda the future
 
Feb 13, 2008
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I personally hated the War Poems/Cider with Rosie (which I had to read) BUT...it's tough to find a book that enough people would like (I'd have Watchmen, Day of the Triffids and probably 1984).

The forums here are quite friendly like that, there's no real "Well, I'll talk over him because he's not very bright."; or at least I haven't seen much.

I'd guess there's more than ten intelligent people on the internet, and I wouldn't really class myself that highly; but I know there's a whole lot of little zergling spawns on other sites.

1984 is a damn good book, but there's still the problem on selling it to some of the teenagers.
*cough* "Wot's is? If the guy dosnt like Big Bruvver, he can just turn it off, innit?" :)

My Father would still say that you have to read Silas Mariner though. And can you imagine doing a paper on H.P.Lovecraft?

(BTW, on Dan Brown, Angels and Demons is far better, and less read)
 

KenzS

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Jun 2, 2008
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Ok this guy drives me nuts.... the dumbest generation? as opposed to over 100 years ago where only like half the population was literate?

He makes a few points, american teens dont know much outside the country. But you can't judge these people based on one guys statistics. I don't quite understand what kind of point this guy is trying to get through.

Seriously, don't blame technology and social networking for this. Blame your goddamn education system! I've seen down-town high schools in the states, no wonder kids don't find any interest in their education.

I swear its like these stupid politicians are trying to find scapegoats for societies' problems! Blame tv and bad music for violence! not the poor gun-laws and bad living standards. Blame video games for making kid stupid! BLAME TECHNOLOGY!

America isn't going downhill because of technology and social networking. Plenty of other countries have the same technologies, yet they don't have these issues.
 

DraftPickle

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I WAS JUST ABOUT TO FUCKING SAY THAT ABOUT A&D WITH THE ILLUMINATI AND BRANDING AND SHIT. yeah I got excited. quite true about a kid saying turn it off lolage Mclol lol, one more post and ur in 2008! After that never post again until next year and then you can only post once a year.

Derka Derka?
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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This Mark Bauerlein sounds like a shit teacher, especially when he calls his student's ignorant narcissists, like that is going to inspire them to study his out of touch books. He is also a serial abuser of statistics (as most people without a science education) when he berates a student for watching 2.5 hours of TV per day! Well following that logic; 10% of his sexual encounters should have been homosexual, he should be 20% African-American, has 1.2 siblings and is exactly 5' 9.3" tall.
Also what is the matter with relaxing for 2.5 hours a day (considering we 'waste' 8 hours a day with sleep) especially if they watch an educational channel from Nat-geo, Disco. or the big 'H'. Even the news (just as long as it's not FOX).

His basic argument is that teenagers are not using the internet for knowledge but for communicating with each other. He also implies that people in their 20s fall into this group with his under 30s sticker. This is patently ridiculous considering the popularity of Wikis, search engines, current affairs blogs and youtube video on everything from presidential candidates to budding journalists with their "expose" reports. For some inane reason he has latched onto social networking which is little more than a virtual bulletin board for events and keeping in touch. It's like he's blaming his wife's cooking on her gossiping too much, maybe her cooking is shit because he is an asshole and also why his students make no effort.

I'm sorry the library and the Smithsonian website. He is a "fuddy-duddy" if he thinks these places are engaging for teenagers and young adults. Most libraries have no where near as much readily available information as Wikipedia or a regular search engine plus they are intimidating places with strict rules like no food, no talking, no phones, no music, no friends, no space, no privacy, inconvenient location and opening hours. The idea of just trying to look for information in what your are interested in is impossible as you have thousands of books but have no idea where the info is as they are only ORDERED ALPHABETICALLY BY TITLE. And we all know you can't judge a book by it's cover.

I think Mark Bauerlein's major problem is he is trying to get student to learn by telling them it is important when clearly it is not as important than getting a skill for a job and enjoying their youth while they have it. He needs to push forms of entertainment that have a basis in history and the arts, COD fans will love WWII history, MGS3 fans will love 1960's cold war politics, anyone who was disappointed by I Am Legend will love to read the book that is SO much more satisfying (I really do recommend it, even if you get the audiobook, put it on your ipod and bask in the glory of classic sci-fi-horror). If humanities are so good then how about he proves that.
 

Theokotos

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Jul 12, 2008
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Unfortunately I can't view the actual video (an infested laptop's driven me to hoping around public access terminals) but I think I've got the gist of it: this git has written a book, and is thus promoting it. Said book is about how 'stupid' or 'dumb' the 'millennial' (anyone under 30, I presume?) generation is. He's using highly questionable sources, most of which are statistics or anecdotes, making them immediately suspect anyway. His target is American youth, and the major factors of modern idiocy appear to be: the American educational system, poor parenting, the internet/technology boom, and the generation itself, as a result of the previous three factors. The big issue seems to be that he is generalizing his sample/studies/whatever he did that qualifies him to say what he's saying to the population (i.e. everyone he's never met). This is a big no-no. If I missed an important point please let me know.

The most blatant first point, in my mind, is: if technology (judging by everyone else's comments that seems a big issue with him) is devolving us into gasping fish creatures, why have so many other tech obsessed countries not found the same fate? I'm sure someone can forge a comeback to this and deliver it via rapier wit.

Surprisingly no one has pulled the, always fun, IQ argument against this guy. There are a fair number of studies suggesting, to the point where it has been mentioned in several of my psychology text books, that the average IQ has significantly increased with every generation. I'm lazy (gasp!) and already approaching long winded, so I won't bother with links no one will investigate. Also: statistics. Ick.

However, many have mentioned the idea that people are well versed in what interests them. Others have dismissed this point, arguing in favor of a well rounded, overall education. Since I'm already skeptical of the validity of IQ testing (outside determining if some one is, say, functionally retarded for legal reasons) I'm not going to hold it up as some shining beacon of a solution to the argument, partially because it tends to favor the second opinion.

But this idea of different types of 'smart' is already being, and has been for a while, investigated by psychology and sociology. I personally subscribe to the theory, and think that the U.S.'s role as a 'melting pot' has something to do with this 'you're all dumb!' ranting. Think about it; most of us have lived their lives in a highly diverse society and culture (if you have internet connection I, optimistically, believe you do live thusly). Different cultures value different forms of knowledge and, regardless of whether the parent is good, bad or even competent, this is impressed upon the offspring through the family.

This is also where the old generation vs new generation conflict might arise: mom and dad moved to the U.S. right after they were married and had you. They wanted you to have a better life here than 'back in the old country' and you, in living that better life, have found you want to pursue the fine, nuanced art of socializing when dad thinks you should be learning how to hoe potatoes. Where or why you're going to hoe potatoes in the suburbs no one knows, but it's his opinion and he's grumpy. You buy him a hoe as a joke gift for the holidays. Gardening tool based chaos ensues. Mom blackmails you photographic evidence of the holiday you 'ruined' until her long over due death.

Or maybe they were just average middle class all American Joes and Janes who wanted the average middle class life for their family. Their kid hits adolescence and starts attempting to tamper with their assembly line lifestyle. They join the student amnesty international group. Mom and dad, who meddled a bit in the hippie movement back in the day, uneasily encourage them. Then the kid spends alot of time online, refuses to do sports, dyes his hair. Mom and dad are getting upset. Kid comes out as gay and moves in with a group of other homosexual teenagers at 16. Dad disowns kid. Mom still writes letters (she never figured out the email), and is always commenting on how nicely the kid and his boyfriend have decorated. The kid's otherwise doing alright for himself.

I won't use anecdotes, because I experienced a less than conventional childhood and adolescence, but I will say I'm the product of a mixed marriage as I'm sure many of you are. I also live in a major metropolitan area and go to a state university with a highly diverse student population. I talk with my peers and have a difficult time finding people I think are outright stupid. Even in high school I found locating out and out morons a challenge. When there's a disagreement it's more often than not because we're approaching the topic from completely different places; I would hate to be a business major, but I came from a financially stable home and don't have to work three jobs to get through college. I'm not looking for a stable nine to five when I graduate. When I confuse people with 'big words' it's often because they're bi-lingual, which is more than I can say for myself (literally, ha! Terrible pun). Sometimes it's because I'm using words common with my culture, but not theirs. If they should know the word it's usually me mocking them for their lack of knowledge. People complain about idiots constantly, but really, we're all idiots to someone at sometime, yeah?

God I'm tired. What the hell was I talking about again? Was I going somewhere with this? Oh. Yeah.

Right, so, generalizing to the population = bad. Don't do that. Of course, it's all merely my opinion. I feel like I should write more, but I hear the tiny screams of 'god no! enough! quiet already!' and my desire to always address and analyze a topic from every conceivable angle and go off on rhetorical tangents is wearing on even my nerves. I feel bad for my TAs.

p.s. Regarding knowledge of history? You just need enough to realize that everything has more than one, and almost inevitably hundreds, of causes. For some this means lots and lots of history classes, for others just one (and presumably a really good history teacher). Again I'm optimistic that that will color most topics one thinks about thereafter, encouraging further research simply for the sake of knowing.
 

Furrama

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Jul 24, 2008
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I completely and totally agree with this guy. I don't think he's being arrogant- you can defend your/my generation if you like, but don't defend it just because you see it as 'yours'. We aren't on a team, we don't like each other that much.

EDIT: AND too many people are getting worked up because you think he's calling you stupid for being in the generation- 'He's generalizing, I'M NOT LIKE THAT WAAAAAAAAH!'

He's talking about a generation... he's going to generalize. It's about the statistics and figures, don't take it so personally.