By what sign will we know (video) gaming is mainstream and 'normal'?

[donquixote]

Just some factors I wanted to bring up.

Videogames are not mainstream. Although comics/graphic novels are quite popular, the occasional appearance in the mainstream media (say the murder of Captain America) does not make it mainstream. Compare the comics in the status of comics in the U.S. to the that of manga in the Japan. Then compare comics and videogames in the U.S.

Videogames are not considered 'normal' (although the Wii is quickly changing that trend). Compare videogaming to porn. The porn industry is huge. Both in revenue and the number of people that have sampled its product. Obviously it's still not mainstream (sadly neither is erotica).

On AO and R ratings I would say check out CCA [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Film_Is_Not_Yet_Rated%28movie%29] and the Comic Code while you're at it. I don't think ratings matter much to how mainstream videogaming is or will be...

Edit: Oh yeah why can't tv representation of games be like this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDdErzFwrRY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fyetanotherotp%2Elivejournal%2Ecom%2F27670%2Ehtml] or try a split screen approach? They aren't trying hard enough.

 

[P.J.Fry]

Gaming is mainstream. If "killergames" are on the news it means that enough people know what computer games are to generate ratings for the news station.

Well, the thing is, i believe it does gain less attention because of it's popularity, but because it is an easy scapegoat.
I should've mentioned that in Germany, there were a few school massacres in the last years and additionally, the crime rate among youths has risen (or gained more attention from the media) and at least for the politicians, blaming brutal games is much easier as blaming the problems in our country (extremly high unemployment rate and as such, a rise in poverty for example) that these people are actually supposed to do something against.

And since Videogames don't get much positive attention in the Media, i belive that scapegoating brutal games is NOT a sign of gaming becoming mainstream.

This will never happen. Movies and music VIDEOS relate well to TV. You can show a movie clip on tv but you can't play a game level etc when its on the news. Viewing a game clip relates less to the experience of playing games than veiwing a movieclip, which uses the same facilities as actually watching a movie (you sit and stare at a screen). Having said this we have a channel here called "playin tv" where you can play crappy games with your remote.

But there are TV channels in other countries (Germany and i think Korea) that are mostly dedicated to Videogames. They are of course not as popular as Music TV, for example, but they have a popularity that cannot be underestimated.

EDIT: Sorry if my english sucks.

 

[LazyOtaku [deprecated]]

I should've mentioned that in Germany, there were a few school massacres in the last years and additionally, the crime rate among youths has risen (or gained more attention from the media) and at least for the politicians, blaming brutal games is much easier as blaming the problems in our country (extremly high unemployment rate and as such, a rise in poverty for example) that these people are actually supposed to do something against.

Actually, the youth crime rate as well as violence in schools and the consumption of alcohol among youths are going down in Germany. The level of brutality in youth crime isn't going up either but is staying on the same level.

Some Links you might find interesting.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/artikel/834/98736/

http://www.unfallkassen.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-509/_nr-10/_p-1/i.html

http://www.bmj.bund.de/enid/Kriminologie/Erster_Periodischer_Sicherheitsbericht_der_Bundesregierung_5q.html

http://www.zeit.de/online/2007/14/alkoholmissbrauch

 

[Nobodies15]

You make a good point P.J.Fry, and your english is fine. It is sad how some politicions will use something new or popular to public conciousness for their own gain.

 

[Chimaera]

It could be when Guinness World Records launches a videogame edition, too:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=24113

Personally I think it's already mainstream and normal.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Not too overly long ago, I hooked up my parents with their first computer. It was for serious business, of course, a tool to be used for communications, research, productivity (whatever the hell that means), and so forth - and most definitely not for games, because games are for kids and slackers.

I don't think it took six months before my mom was hanging out on Yahoo Games, which earned her two things: a lot of late nights and bleary-eyed mornings, and heaps of scorn from my dad, who couldn't figure out why she was wasting all that time playing Zuma, as opposed to, say, watching tv. He was both a more serious user and a more mature individual, and as such, it took another several months before he stumbled across some kind of online checkers site. The debate now is not about the merits and worth of gaming, but how they divide the computer time fairly so everyone gets a chance to play.

So now I can say, without a hint of deceit or irony: dude, my mom plays videogames. Mainstream? Oh yeah.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

We'll have a serious games award show instead of the embarrassment which is SpikeTV's.

 

[aniki21]

Can we define "mainstream"? I can't really think of any hobby that's "mainstream" in the way that a lot of the posters here seem to mean. Sure, fly-fishing might not get you the same weird looks as "I'm a gamer" might, but I'd wager around the same number of people go fly-fishing in their spare time as fire up their PS2.

I'm honestly growing more than a little concerned at the games' industry's attempts to justify its existence. I wasn't there for this sort of period in cinema (obviously), but it's hard to imagine any other form of entertainment this obsessed with validation.

Surely, if the industry as a whole just buckles down and makes games that people want to play we'll reach the "normal" plateau eventually. I'm worried that all this self-examination and self-doubt is harming the medium's ability to grow naturally.

 

[Arbre]

I agree with Echolocating, P.J. Fry and Dom Camus.

Maybe it's more a question of certain gaming genres becoming (more) mainstream, rather than the entire industry waiting to be considered as such. As far as I'm concerned, it already seems to cover a vast and ever growing range of the worldwide population.

Maybe we also need a more mature way to actually sell games, with a clear separation between the ratings and genres. That would be a good start. Right now, it's still a huge mess.

Maybe there should be more serious Adult Only games. Right now, they just seem too casual, too comical or too geared towards people who experience a severe lack of sex in their life.

Or maybe video games will be considered mainstream when another type of (mass) media will become the favorite scape goat of so many dino journalists who love to take potshots at the industry, with awful misinformation and generalizations.
Maybe you didn't know, but internet kills people. Word. :|

 

[penischucker]

I guess it kind of is already.
Or at least it needs to be more acceptable that I, a female gamer have loved games since my early childhood days, yet I still wear a skirt everyday (in other words gaming needs to be seen as something that's not solely a masculine sport).

 

[Dr Sloth]

When the majority of people globally (I'm well aware that what happens globally depends primarily on what happens in the minority of countries) start taking them seriously. My main example here is my country, Australia. The highest rating that we have for games is MA 15+, this means that games which would get the AO rating in countries like America are illegal here as they are refused classification and therefore sale.
One sign that it is closer to being normal is that people will stop thinking of gamers as psychos who sit around all day shooting people or playing so much WoW that they forget to eat.

 

[ccesarano]

Videogames are not mainstream. Although comics/graphic novels are quite popular, the occasional appearance in the mainstream media (say the murder of Captain America) does not make it mainstream. Compare the comics in the status of comics in the U.S. to the that of manga in the Japan. Then compare comics and videogames in the U.S.

I was about to bring up such a thing as well.

I don't expect video games to ever be as "mainstream" as television or film, and I prefer it that way. Chances are, video games will surpass the popularity of comics and even novels, but it will never become mainstream. It will, however, become accepted, just as comics have become.

The thing about games is that, like the comic industry, the people that are making them aren't really mainstream. Sure, people on this site love to talk about how games are being dumbed down for the idiot mainstream playing on the console, but I don't really think that is the case. I simply think the mainstream will play what they want. Sure, you have your fratty style developers making games, but they usually aren't games that sell well. Games that are looking to sell well this holiday, like Halo 3, Bioshock, the Orange Box and Assassin's Creed all have much more intellectual background. Halo is heavily influenced by high brow sci-fi such as Ringworld and possesses more story than mainstream audiences are used to (whether you think the story sucks or not is irrelevant, as chances are you are more well read than mainstream). Bioshock has obvious influences from Atlus Shrugged and other such books. Assassin's Creed resulted in a shit ton of research into history that you'll rarely find in television and Hollywood outside of World War II, and twists it with a sci-fi idea somehow. I don't even have to tell you guys about the Orange Box.

These games are all set up to sell well to the mainstream, and they all offer something more intellectual than what film or television has to offer currently.

This leads me not only into how games surpass comics, but how they are surpassing books. Find someone that rarely, if ever, reads and ask them what the last seven books they read were. I guarantee that most of them will simply list off the entire Harry Potter series. No one reads the truly intelligent stuff.

Sure, most people may not have played Psychonauts, and the only reason a lot of people will even bother to play Brutal Legend is because "dude, this game is so metal...and I am soooooo stoned right now...let's get some tastykakes...", but they'll at least be attracted to it. Also, again, a lot of people may find that Halo's story is crap, but the way I see it, introducing the mainstream to the concept of a Ringworld (albeit one that can't work scientifically, but sometimes you just gotta say "fuck science"), introducing an Alien race united under something like a religion, something unheard of in mainstream sci-fi, and the slow and subtle discovery of the history of the Forerunner is MUCH better than Harry Potter.


Games aren't mainstream, and hopefully they never will be. I mean, someone like Mark Echo can try and make a game, but no one will care about it. Mark Echo, meanwhile, is one of these mainstream guys with little brain that tries to make a game, and most other guys like him that get into the industry either end up working for EA developing games based on television or film, end up making "the guy game", or end up making sports titles. Yet, somehow, when I'm at my school's computer store, I still have frat boys asking me for games like Bioshock and Half-Life.

I dare you to find a frat boy that goes to Barnes and Nobles and walks right to the section containing Robert Heinlein or Ayn Rand (and it not be required for a class).

 

[slapme7times]

lol... how about the software sales on halo 3?

or how about the way it impacted box office sales during the same timespan?

How about how you become suddenly uncool if you don't play a video game, like the halo franchise, for instance?

video games are mainstream, you just refuse to see the ways =) we're now more interested in persecuting each other than banding together against the non gamers.

 

[eggdog14]

When women play them.

 

[ccesarano]

lol... how about the software sales on halo 3?

or how about the way it impacted box office sales during the same timespan?

How about how you become suddenly uncool if you don't play a video game, like the halo franchise, for instance?

video games are mainstream, you just refuse to see the ways =) we're now more interested in persecuting each other than banding together against the non gamers.

I believe this still falls in line with what I said. Yes, Halo 3 sold amazingly well, but how well did Harry Potter sell compared to other novels? In fact, compared to other fantasy novels especially?

Once again, I don't think video games themselves will become mainstream, just mainstream accepted. Halo 3 is just another Harry Potter, but other games will not enjoy nearly that level of success.

Nonetheless, games will at least surpass the appeal of comics and books.

 

[LordOmnit]

Possibly, but then again, in terms of mainstream as what?
If you are talking about the popularity of football (as in the tackle-fest in America or football that deals with, I dunno, feet for the rest of the world), then never, there is no way that games will ever be actually as popular as those things.
If you mean popular as in lots of people participate in a gaming-related thing, then that could not be too far off, I mean, they release video games of every kind of thing: sports, puzzles, RPGs, SRPGs, FPS, RTS, casual games, etc. but it is still is considered a 'niche' hobby I think.
If you mean popular as in most people know about it, whether or not they care about it, then that time has passed.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

When the mainstream ruins video games.

Watered down games.
weak fiction and retooling their of for mainstream.
weakening gameplay for the mainstream.

Pretty much "Bioshock" , all that remains is video games having 20ish% of all TV time.

 

[LordOmnit]

Pretty much "Bioshock" , all that remains is video games having 20ish% of all TV time.

That's interesting, because I've heard pretty much everyone saying Bioshock is good, not as great as hyped, but still pretty good, (even Yahtzee admitted that it was at least passing), just wondering where you are coming from.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Pretty much "Bioshock" , all that remains is video games having 20ish% of all TV time.

That's interesting, because I've heard pretty much everyone saying Bioshock is good, not as great as hyped, but still pretty good, (even Yahtzee admitted that it was at least passing), just wondering where you are coming from.

TV still has good shows on it, if you can find them, point is BS could have been great as hyped if they put more work into details and polish as it is Dark messiah the game ubi bought up raped and retooled from Arx fatailis 2 has more detail and polish in the gameplay than BS has, by the time you stack them up they are about the same and this should not be the case BS should clearly be better but its not and thats why BS is mainstream fodder.

the game is hyped as a 9 if you believe the scores, the real tilt is 7-8 I side with 7 because the game is lacking at least DM had some real potential the melee fighting alone brought the FP genre up a notch what dose bioshock give us a generic customizable skill system thats better done with something called a inventory system.

Prehaps I am seeing BS diffrently because I wanted a FPS RPG preahps I am hard on it because its really a easy gun and run uber lite mazy adventure, the game is just lacking IMO.

But don't worry I share my hate equally with Halo(1-6,2-5,3-6 PC version add 2 points), Quake 4(5), Doom 3(4),HL2(7) and other lack luster FPSs since 2000