Can a Lie become Truth?

[Unholykrumpet]

Some friends of mine last night were discussing...well a lot of things. But one of the questions that we couldn't come to an agreement was the concept of lies becoming truths. The exact question posed was "If someone tells a lie, and the other person takes it for truth and tells it to someone else, does the lie, at least in part, become a truth?". Originally, I was against that notion, but after reading the definition of a lie as "A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood", I'm not sure anymore. We further applied the concept to religion, asking if it would be a sin for a religious person to tell what they thought was the truth when it was really a lie.

 

[Clairaudient]

It's always a lie.

If another person believes it and projects it as a truth (to the best of their knowledge) it's a lie, but they aren't a liar. They're simply misled.

 

[Corven]

the majority of people dictate what truth is, if 500 people say an apple is red, well the 200 other people who think apples are blue are called liars.

 

[rottenbutter]

Some friends of mine last night were discussing...well a lot of things. But one of the questions that we couldn't come to an agreement was the concept of lies becoming truths. The exact question posed was "If someone tells a lie, and the other person takes it for truth and tells it to someone else, does the lie, at least in part, become a truth?". Originally, I was against that notion, but after reading the definition of a lie as "A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood", I'm not sure anymore. We further applied the concept to religion, asking if it would be a sin for a religious person to tell what they thought was the truth when it was really a lie.

I think the definition might be wrong. A lie, is a statement, that you say is true, but know is false. If someone believes a lie, and tells someone else that lie, believing it to be true, then they are not a liar, they are just wrong. Just because you believe something is the truth, doesn't make it so (not even a little bit).

 

[Unholykrumpet]

The definition struck me as odd as well rotten. Maybe online dictionaries aren't the best way to define something subjective like lies or truths. I'm probably wrong, but I don't really view truth as a black and white matter. I guess there is always a set event that happened a certain way, but unless there is a way to verify what actually happened, I think truth eventually becomes an idea carried in a person's head. I guess my problem with the hypothetical situation in the original post stems from the fact that my version of "truth" varies from someone who does see truth in black and white.

 

[goodman528]

Some lies can become truth. But not in the way you said. For example if you went out with someone and said you were an investment banker when you are not, then that's a lie; but then in a few months or years time, you really became an investment banker, then that lie has just became the truth. The distintion between lies and truth is really based on what your intentions were.

If you mistaken a lie for the truth, then retold it in all honesty thinking it was true, then it depends on the exact subject matter. In some cases like the media or gossip, what the truth really is, is totally irrelevant, only the most popular belief matters. In some cases like science and maths, then a lie is a lie, it's black and white.

the majority of people dictate what truth is, if 500 people say an apple is red, well the 200 other people who think apples are blue are called liars.

The majority of people did think the earth was flat, and the sun went around the earth, which is at the centre of everything.

 

[jim_doki]

lies can become truth, it's a matter of timing. Example:

"so, do you have a girlfreind?"
"Uh, No"
"great, lets go back to yours"
a few hours later, like after she walks in, you wont have a girlfriend anymore!

 

[Unholykrumpet]

Lies can become truth. Like saying the world is round a few hundred years ago. Later on some guy named Columbus, who everyone thoughy was lying, helped prove them wrong and then it became truth.

Perspective seems to be a key factor then? Because on one hand, from the perspective of the guy who said the world was round, it was never a lie. Therefore, it never evolved into the truth, it was always the truth and people were just too stupid to notice. On the other hand, it's a lie to the masses that didn't believe the man, and it eventually becomes truth after being proven.

But what if the guy was lying in the first place? If theoretically, the guy said that the world was round just to mess with people and tick off the church, can he be considered not a liar just because he's right? Maybe I'm wrong to mingle the "truthiness" of the statement with the process of labeling the person?

 

[The Lyre]

I would say that lies can become misinformed, incorrect statements, but never truth.

Of course, we could argue for a very long time on how subjective reality is, and how something can be both true and false, based on the recipient of that statement, but really it just boils down to intention - if it was once a lie, but is told as truth, it is just incorrect.

 

[jim_doki]

on a more serious note, there is no truth. there are two sides to every story, and neither of them are wrong

 

[cleverlymadeup]

simply put an untruth can become truth, but if it's a deliberately, and knowingly, false statement then no it can't become truth

it on the other hand becomes truthiness

 

[Knight Templar]

If a person is saying something that is untrue but unknowingly so, it isn't a lie. It's not truth in any way because it's simply wrong.

 

[Flunk]

A lie is an intentional mistruth. So if you are relaying incorrect information you are not actually lying but you are also not telling the truth. It's possible that a statement is incorrect but the speaker is not lying.

So to correct an assumption made above, you don't necessarily have to be speaking truth even if you are not lying. So to answer your religious question above you are not sinning unless you are intentionally telling mistruths.

 

[Labyrinth]

As 'Truth' itself is a subjective observation, it would depend on the subject in question. For example in 1984 the Party is continually re-inventing truth as it edits the back catalogue of media. A degree of doublethink and mental censorship is involved in this, but I would say that it occurs in present day society anyway.

So yes.

However, a 'fact' should be differentiated from 'truth' in this case, as a 'fact' is an objective observation such as the value of pi, which is a constant, or absolute zero.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

What Labyrinth said.
Lie becomes truth as soon as it is accepted that way. Acceptance isn't always willing however.

yeah but sometimes an untruth still can't be the truth, such as the whole intelligent design thing. Jesus did not ride dinosaurs nor did any human, giant animals is possible but not dinosaurs like intelligent design says we did

 

[black lincon]

What Labyrinth said.
Lie becomes truth as soon as it is accepted that way. Acceptance isn't always willing however.

i believe the term is wikiality.

 

[fluffylandmine]

It's all a matter of the proper use of doublethink, first characterized in George Orwell's 1984.

So for that matter, labyrinth and necroswanson are correct...unless big brother says they are not...