Can Dark Souls (2) be considered a JRPG?

BathorysGraveland2

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I wouldn't say so, no. At this point, JRPG is a sub-genre based on certain criteria of a game. An American developer could make a JRPG these days if it fits the style. It's not just any old game that happens to come from Japan. If Skyrim was made in Japan, that wouldn't automatically make it a JRPG since it's nothing like what is defined as JRPGs.

To be honest though, defining RPGs and its sub-genres and different styles has become ludicrously difficult over the past decade. It's all a big confusing mess these days.

But yeah, Dark Souls has a lot more in common with WARPGs (western action-RPGs) than anything else.
 

80sboy

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If we are to debate what merits what game into a specific genre, you'd notice that really the entire system that we have now would require a complete overhaul since hardly any game today can fall into the categories we have right now.
 

Subbies

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You can wield a Keyblade in Dark Souls 2. Nuff said.

But more seriously it's kind of iffy. As many had said before, it really depends on the definition that you give of what is a JRPG and it's more of a hybrid of the two cultures then anything else. You can always invent a new name for the genre if you can't find a good definition.
 

DarkhoIlow

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s69-5 said:
An RPG from Japan is the definition of Japanese Role Playing Game (JRPG)
So yes. Duh.
But it doesn't matter since that really isn't a subgenre.

Those are:

Classic RPG {CRPG}: Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Lufia, etc.
Action RPG {ARPG}: Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, Skyrim, etc.
Strategy RPG {SRPG}: Disgaea, FF:Tactics, Tactics Ogre, etc. see also Tactical RPG (TRPG)
Massive Multiplayer Online RPG {MMORPG}: WoW, FF XIV, Aeon, etc.
Dungeon Crawler: Persona, Wizardry, Class of Heroes, etc.
Roguelike: Rogue, Legasista, The Guided Fate Paradox, etc.
Hack n' Slash: Diablo, Sacred, Borderlands, etc. See also Loot

There is no "WRPG" or "JRPG" subgenre because they are meaningless terms. All RPGs fit in the above categories so anything else is superfluous.
I'm sorry but CRPG stands for Computer Role Playing Game not classic: via wikipedia:

"A role-playing video game (commonly referred to as role-playing game or RPG, as well as computer RPG or CRPG) is a video game genre where the player controls the actions of a protagonist (or several adventuring party members) immersed in a fictional world."

A lot of veterans of Infinity Engine games refer to those as CRPG's as well as Divinity Original Sin that was released recently..so this one can't be really called "classic" since it was released in 2014.

CRPG's are RPG's made specifically for the PC to take advantage of the mouse and keyboard controls.
 

t00bz

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That depends entirely on your definition of JRPG. If based on the mechanics, no. It is clearly a WRPG in that respect. In terms of where it was made, yes. As the developer, From Software, is based out of Japan, that would make it a JRPG.

At the end of the day, does it really matter how you classify it? As long as it is fun, who cares what genre it falls under?
 

default

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From a pure language standpoint it's an RPG made in Japan, so yes it is technically. But the definition of a JRPG is more than that. It's about the aesthetic, tone and gameplay. 'JRPGs' as a genre have specific tropes, design philosophies and defining features, none of which Dark Souls has or even alludes to.

Dark Souls is not a JRPG at all.
 

stroopwafel

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Yeah. Dark Souls(and Demon's Souls) is a Japanese action-RPG heavily influenced by western medieval fantasy. In terms of aesthetics and swordplay there are a lot of similarities with the 1981 film Excalibur. Any Souls fan should check it out. I think Miyazaki was a fan.



Solaire @ 1:32 :p
 

DrOswald

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4RM3D said:
I mean it's a RPG and it's from Japan. Sure, it's nothing like Final Fantasy and it's ilk. And I suppose we all have an understanding of what a JRPG suppose to look like, right? Nevertheless if I would go technical, or you know, just out of curiosity...

Can Dark Souls (2) be considered a JRPG? (Albeit one that's unlike any other).
Nope. A JRPG is a specific genre of video games. A JRPG is not just an RPG made in Japan. Similarally, a western RPG is not necessarily an RPG made in the west. Both genres have defining mechanics. They are stupid genre names, but here we are.

I would prefer the term static role playing game for JRPG's (based on the idea that you play a static role) and dynamic role playing game for western RPG's (because the role you play is defined largely by the player.)
 

Wasted

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When you buy a Hawaiian pizza, you don't expect it to actually come from Hawaii. You only expect it to have specific ingredients like ham and pineapple.
 

4RM3D

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80sboy said:
If we are to debate what merits what game into a specific genre, you'd notice that really the entire system that we have now would require a complete overhaul since hardly any game today can fall into the categories we have right now.
Yeah, a lot of games are hybrids nowadays. Even (straight forward) shooters want a bit of RPGness. But even hybrids get their own category. Slap RPG and strategy together and you can get something like X-Com or Disgaea, which would be a tactical RPG.

Though preferable I would rather use tags to describe games, like Steam does. The most practical tag for me would be anime. Anime is not a genre, it's a style. Then of course that style is implicit in JRPGs. But it would just be easier to tag something as an anime and whatever other tags apply.

s69-5 said:
Classic RPG {CRPG}:
Ah, so that's what it stands for. I know what CRPGs are, but I never actually realized what the abbreviation meant.

EDIT: or not...
DarkhoIlow said:
I'm sorry but CRPG stands for Computer Role Playing Game not classic: via wikipedia:
*snip*
---

RandV80 said:
So what do you think of Septerra Core [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septerra_Core]? The only JRPG, that I know of, to be developed for the PC by a non-Japanese studio. Is it a JRPG then?
 

RandV80

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4RM3D said:
So what do you think of Septerra Core [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septerra_Core]? The only JRPG, that I know of, to be developed for the PC by a non-Japanese studio. Is it a JRPG then?
Never heard of that game, but that's getting into semantics vs definition. For example on the SNES Secret of Evermore while published by Square was designed and developed in the US. There have been a number of similar games to come out in recent years, especially now with kickstarters. I forget the names but I recall seeing a North American dev team building games that pay tribute to Final Fantasy Tactics and Earthbound. How would you classify these?

Ultimately though people are free to define the term how they want, I was just trying to put a historical perspective on it. Like I said in my other post, you don't differentiate between Resident Evil or Dead Space or games like Mario and Rayman, so why do you need to with Final Fantasy and Dragon Age? Because early on starting with the 8-bit console era, console games we played were like 95% Japanese/5% Western (Note that I'm guesstimating with these numbers), while PC games we played were nearly 100% western and 95% exclusive to PC. Enter the Microsoft Xbox, and 10 years later it seems like console games are more like 30% Japanese and 70% Western developed, while a PC game is 50/50 going to be on a console. That's fine, but the specific topic problem exists because an 'RPG' is pretty much the only genre that shared the same genre name but were actually quite different, tracing back to their early origins with the first Dragon Quest and Ultima.

While it may not be literally correct that's why I like to call anything that followed the Eastern branch of RPG evolution a 'JRPG', and anything following the Western branch a 'WRPG'. It's not really the best naming convention and can still be a little confusing, especially to gamers who are closer to 20 than to 30. But that's kind of how language works, you can't just up and decide on a new naming convention yourself no matter how much sense it makes. Sometimes you just gotta work with what you have.
 

4RM3D

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DrOswald said:
I would prefer the term static role playing game for JRPG's (based on the idea that you play a static role) and dynamic role playing game for western RPG's (because the role you play is defined largely by the player.)
Never looked at it like that. But the terms do make sense.

RandV80 said:
That was more enlightening that the first post. I see your point.
 

RandV80

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s69-5 said:
RandV80 said:
I forget the names but I recall seeing a North American dev team building games that pay tribute to Final Fantasy Tactics
SRPG (Strategy RPG)


and Earthbound.
CRPG (Classical RPG)
Only thing I would say is why does the early Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy/Phantasy Star brand of console RPG's get called 'Classic' while the many 'classic' PC RPG's get slotted into actual definitive names? And where do games like Ultima VII or Balders Gate fall? They're kind of in a 'Classic' category as well, which means you'd be grouping Final Fantasy XIII and Dragon Age: Origins together.

And the terms aren't really that new. On the PC they used to be called CRPG's, until the games started coming to console and they changed it to WRPG's. Again it's not the best naming convention, it's just what we have. You can start sorting games into strategy/action/MMO genre's and you can start covering a lot of games, but I still think you need an East vs West distinction in there.
 

Continuity

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Its a Japanese ARPG, so neither a WRPG or a JRPG proper. Its a mutant.

Also, on a slight tangential subject should ARPGs really be considered in the same genre as other RPGs? given the significant difference in focus in the gameplay. Time was we just called them "hack n slash" with no reference to RPG at all.
 

lowkey_jotunn

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Strange that no one has mentioned extra credits yet. They did a whole 3 episode thing on this very topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8aiEsIW9IM

Short answer: No. Dark Souls is not a JRPG despite being made in Japan.

Long answer:

JRPGs focus primarily on telling a story with established characters. Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, Secret of Mana/Evermore, Skies of Arcadia, Chrono Trigger, Fire Emblem, Legend of Dragoon, Wild Arms, Suikoden 2 ... they all have specific characters you know and love. They all have pretty strict story lines. You can also stop playing as the "main character" for a while to focus on side characters (if there even is a specific main character)

WRPGs focus primarily on making you, the player, into someone awesome, and letting you explore the crazy world as your awesome self. The Elder Scroll series, Fallout, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights and yes, Dark Souls (2). Some are more story driven than others, but they ALL let you explore and customize your character and play. Does the Dovahkiin want to slay dragons? Or just collect cabbages? The Vault Dweller can be specialize in any weapon, pick any path and be anyone they want. etc etc.


Imagine trying to change a JRPG character: imagine if Chrono had the option of being female. Or you could make Ike a mage. On the flip side, imagine if a WRPG locked you down. Imagine if murdering a guard in Whiterun caused a game over. What if putting on that new Daedric Armor you crafted didn't actually change your appearance at all? Imagine Mass Effect with no dialog options. You talk to the person, scripted line plays, and you move on.


There has been some blurring of the lines recently, as each style tries to work in beneficial aspects of the other. But I think they'll always have that divide. JRPGs want to tell you a very specific story with a group of very specific characters who look and act very specific ways. WRPGs swap carefully crafted story for freedom. It's harder to have a tight plot when the character is free to do whatever they want. And it gets messy trying to keep a players options truly unfettered.
 

Ishal

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I don't think so, no.

JRPG tends to mean more than just RPG from Japan. It's a game focussed on party combat, tends to be turn based, usually has lots of dialogue and lots of story, is presented in a certain type of aesthetic (anime style is common), so on and so forth. That, and when you hear JRPG, most people immediately jump to FF, Chrono Trigger, and the like.

So no, I'd say it's a western RPG made in Japan. It's true though that there are influences from Berserk manga in Dark Souls. However, more than that, Miyazaki was inspired by reading Western fantasy and folklore as a child that, because of his limited understanding of English at the time, couldn't fully comprehend. That's mostly where the world of Dark Souls comes from.