Can I talk about the Dark Knight Rises?

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I really liked The Dark Knight Rises, but if anything it was because it took itself less seriously than the other two movies. Then again, my favorite Batman movie is still the 1989 Tim Burton one, so maybe I'm just weird. I mean, I love the Nolan trilogy. Don't get me wrong, they're excellent movies. But they're also blatantly embarrassed by their comic book origins, just like most of the superhero movies of the early 2000's were. The '89 one, on the other hand, knew exactly what it was, and it did it well. It's the same reason I love The Avengers and its lead in movies, but can't stand most of the other live action Marvel adaptations.

Also, the voice was awesome. Bane is supposed to be smart, he's supposed to be one of the only villains to be able to match Batman on every level. So hearing him do his best impression of Ricardo Montalbahn in The Wrath of Khan actually worked for me.

 

[madwarper]

It was an ok movie... And, while I liked it more than Dark Knight (Ledger sucked, all hail Hamill), Rises wasn't that much better.

Bale continued to be a crappy Batman. You'd think, by the third movie, he'd learn to talk without gargling gravel.

Bane was disappointing as supposed "main villain", and all these plans he put together were ay beyond his pay grade. Granted, what little I know of the character comes from B:TAS, but I felt he should have been regulated to a nonspeaking henchman from the very beginning.

Talia was also disappointing. Again, while my knowledge is limited to B:TAS, at least I knew who she was, unlike everyone else in the theater as I suspected. Would have been better if who she was and what her motives were revealed much earlier to the audience.

"Robin" John Blake... Should have just been named Tim Drake. Otherwise, not bad.

Not-Catwoman Selina Kyle... Too much of an attempt at social commentary. She'd step all over the 99% to save cats, both big and domestic.

 

[RedDeadFred]

I liked it just not as much as The Dark Knight. I don't know why you hated the fight scenes so much, to me they were incredibly intense and every blow seemed like it had a ton of weight behind it.

As far as the story goes, most of these "plot holes" are pretty easily explained. The movie just didn't take the time to do it. If you want to talk about a critically acclaimed (although I'm not sure if you can quite call TDKR that) huge and serious plot holes, look no further than Looper. I liked the movie but it kind of falls apart if you start putting any thought into it's plot and world.

Ya the nuke would totally ruin everyone's day in real life but so many people seem to be forgetting that it's a fucking movie. And a super hero at that. There's only going to be so much realism. Honestly, how are people still expecting this movie to be super realistic when Batman has somehow not been gunned down yet. Are we really supposed to believe that all of the thugs have that terrible of aim.

Honestly, the only plot hole that ever really bothered me was in the first movie when Bruce blows up Ra's al Ghul's house after telling him that killing is bad. I'm pretty sure a lot of ninjas died in that fire...

The only real issues I had with TDKR was that it simply wasn't as good as TDK, Alfred leaves which seems kind of out of character and he doesn't really do a good job at explaining himself away, and that Catwoman really wasn't that good IMO. She really just seemed like an unnecessary character.

I thought Bane was awesome. His voice was easy to understand IMO. No idea why everyone complains about that. Whenever he was on screen I felt worried. He was just incredibly intimidating and I found him to be more scary than the Joker (although Joker was definitely better).

Oh, one more mild grievance with the film. It was cheesy as hell when Daget says to Bane: "you are pure evil." That might have just been because he delivered the line poorly though.

If I had to rate it, I'd give it a 7.5/10. Certainly a good movie and one that I am happy to own but it doesn't live up to the insane expectations of TDK which I would probably give a 9/10.

 

[Risingblade]

Worst fight scene? Did you not see Batman Begins? The camera was so close up I couldn't what the hell was happening in those fights. Only reason I didn't like that movie was because of the crappy camera work there.

 

[Darks63]

It had an awesome opening but the whole Banes not the true Villain thing it was really this Talia all along kinda wrecked the last part.I Disliked that because it downgraded Bane to a thug, albeit a smarter thug that B&R Bane. It also never really explained wtf was in Banes mask feed it couldn't have been painkillers since those have negative effects on speed, mental acuity, and reflexes.

I Agree with you that final fight scene was a little too brief. It could have went a little longer especially since the soundtrack while they were fighting was so epic.

 

[omega 616]

It had an awesome opening but the whole Banes not the true Villain thing it was really this Talia all along kinda wrecked the last part.I Disliked that because it downgraded Bane to a thug, albeit a smarter thug that B&R Bane. It also never really explained wtf was in Banes mask feed it couldn't have been painkillers since those have negative effects on speed, mental acuity, and reflexes.

I Agree with you that final fight scene was a little too brief. It could have went a little longer especially since the soundtrack while they were fighting was so epic.

I was talking about the first fight, with the back break. It was so slow and dull, two 5 year olds fake fighting looked more realistic. Isn't Batman meant to be trained in countless forms of martial arts and he fights worse than 2 drunken blokes bar brawling...


Tell me, how many of these strikes, from either person, could you block? If you say less then 100% you're being generous. Compare it to something like this.


Now honestly say, which is more entertaining to watch? Personally, the second one looked like each strike had more weight and it was just faster, which looks more exciting ... it's why we watch F1 and not snails race.

Although "then catwoman bursts in on the batcycle and shoots Bane" has got to be a "shit we're running out of funding and time, just kill him quick" move.

 

[Fwee]

I watched this movie for the first time as a "hostage swap" DVD two weeks ago and watched it three or four times. I got through it in about three sessions because I kept getting bored.
Holy buckets! Littlefinger is in this movie!

The fights look sleepy. Every once in a while a single move reminds me that I'm watching an action scene. Did Christian "I have a cold" BatBale just throw firecrackers at Bane?

Bane sometimes sounds incredible, sometimes sounds like a Sean Connery impression or Mayor of Yesteryear. Sometimes he looks cool, sometimes he makes me think Jack Black is behind the mask. I kept thinking, "Is that mask pumping fear gas into him all the time? And it makes him extra strong and crazy?" That might be a cool angle. All in all: he's lots of fun. A-

Catwoman, I have a request. Please share your tailor's information with Black Widow. Hathaway sells her role, she can't help if the writing gets weak. "I'm saying a line." 'I get to say something back.'
Her (now) short hair makes her look almost exactly like my sister, creeps me out.

The new vehicle handles like a station wagon, but that's okay because those surface-to-air missiles are wicked slow. I think they're propelled by mashed potato dry mix. Or fire extinguishers.

Overall I enjoy this movie. Not so much because-

Oh yeah! The Dazed Rock From the Incep-Sun (reference trifecta) kid shows up in this. For a second I thought I dreamed that part and got it confused with The Departed. I like him, he's great in everything. And does wall-backflips.

-of any of the usual reasons I'd like a movie. The stars are exceeding decent but awkward, most times because of the dialog's weirdness. Who talks like that? Special effects and action scenes almost don't exist. Batman sounds more ridiculous every time he talks.

But it brings this series of movies to a decent close, and it is a bit of a nice character study. It isn't the traditional Batman world, but plays well with the source material. There are a few good pieces in the plot, and the backstories and subplots are probably my favorite things about the movie. The entire story of the Pit and the Rope/Fear theme has such a great contradiction to itself. Bane's past is blended so well into Ra's Al Ghul's background that I now appreciate him better comic-wise.

I'd gotten tired of the previous two movies. I've never owned copies, just watched when it was convenient. They were good for their time, but there's a point I reach where I only notice parts of a movie that bug me and then they begin to limp towards my retirement section, where they'll keep The Lord of the Rings company.
However, this final entry in the trilogy may have convinced me to go and purchase all three. So that I can enjoy the highlights, and kick it when it's down laughing all the while.

O.P. gets a huge thumbs up for recommending Nathan Jones. He's great!
Quick note: Heath Ledger's Joker was an excellent and memorable villain, but not the best Joker if you ask me.

 

[Darks63]

It had an awesome opening but the whole Banes not the true Villain thing it was really this Talia all along kinda wrecked the last part.I Disliked that because it downgraded Bane to a thug, albeit a smarter thug that B&R Bane. It also never really explained wtf was in Banes mask feed it couldn't have been painkillers since those have negative effects on speed, mental acuity, and reflexes.

I Agree with you that final fight scene was a little too brief. It could have went a little longer especially since the soundtrack while they were fighting was so epic.

I was talking about the first fight, with the back break. It was so slow and dull, two 5 year olds fake fighting looked more realistic. Isn't Batman meant to be trained in countless forms of martial arts and he fights worse than 2 drunken blokes bar brawling...


Tell me, how many of these strikes, from either person, could you block? If you say less then 100% you're being generous. Compare it to something like this.


Now honestly say, which is more entertaining to watch? Personally, the second one looked like each strike had more weight and it was just faster, which looks more exciting ... it's why we watch F1 and not snails race.

Although "then catwoman bursts in on the batcycle and shoots Bane" has got to be a "shit we're running out of funding and time, just kill him quick" move.

The first fight was supposed to be squash match. The point was to establish Bane as the alpha dog. I enjoyed it for the Shit talking Bane does while he is kicking Bruce's ass. Also comparing a fight in a martial arts film in which the fight is the the core of the film to a action film is a bit unfair.

 

[mr.fuffcans]

I felt DKR fell flat because it didn't seem to follow through on the theme it had been apparently setting for the past two films.

I mean when you go from "The hero it deserves, but not the hero it needs" to "I had better do more push-ups until my back magically heals"...it just feels weak.

If you study literature and story telling, you might have spotted the arch that they seemed to be going for.

Act 1: Hero arrives in adversarial lands, defeats the major enemies and frees the innocent people. (Challenging of the status quo)
Act 2: A new enemy arises that seems even more daunting than any of the other ones combined. Hero must compromise some ideals, but eventually defeats enemy. (Affirmation of necessity)
Act 3: The final enemy appears and cannot be surmounted by the hero. The hero is defeated, but inspires those under his protection to rise up and defeat the enemy. (Dissolving of necessity)

The final epiphany of the film should have been "Bruce Wayne cannot be Batman alone anymore" and that "maybe Batman is no longer needed" which is...kind of what it was, but it conveyed itself weakly.

*Spoilers*
Rather than trying to escape the Pit all by himself by "not being afraid to die" (Which...I mean...was that a problem before? Was Batman really ever afraid to die?), Wayne should have rallied the prisoners to work together to escape the Pit. (This would have also lent more credence to his return to Gotham).

Rather than defeating Bane in a fist-fight himself, Batman should have challenged Bane to a duel -knowing he would get the living shit kicked out of him. The objective, of course, would be to weaken Bane to the point that while he could still take Batman in his battered state easily, he would not be able to take a fresh and ready Robin. This would make Blake's character a far more convincing Bat replacement than having him pout feebly and impotently at a checkpoint -ultimately doing nothing while Gotham's fate hangs in the balance. Have Catwoman do that crap! (Not because she's a woman, but because the tiny plot relevance of her character did not earn her the right to defeat Bane).

i really get the feeling that most of your bad reaction to the DKR is built on presumptions that you had, and i have to ask did you watch the same movie i did? now i know it is an exaggeration on your part but i can't take a comment like "do some push ups until my back magically heals..." very serious when pretaining to bruce's arc within this film. i would put forth: "Heroism requires selflessness, tenacity, and most importantly sacrifice."

Also just because the 2 films fit in a general way to the structure you have stated above doesn't mean that the third film has to in order to complete the arc of the hero. Batman becomes the hero by selflessly dying for his city (well they muck that up of course) and becoming the symbol/legend of hope and justice that he ducard told him about in the first film. maybe its not as interesting as the arc you suggest but its very clear from the first film that this is the only end that awaits batman.

your point about the "not being afraid to die" also makes me ask if you were paying attention (although this may be a reading comprehension error on my part if it is i apologise) to the jail's doctor telling bruce "how are you able to fight for longer? jump farther or run faster if you don't fear dying?" its not a direct quote but its clear that he wants bruce to do the opposite of what you said. he needs to fear death in order to escape the prison not the other way around this is why he does the final jump without the rope and it is also why the bats are present just before he does jump (a symbol of his fear).

he already does know that he will get the living shit kicked out of him but does it anyway (his comment to catwoman about not giving everything yet shows that his death is most certainly in the front of his mind) this is a point of contention that i have with the film as he attacks bane in the same way he did before although he is shown to have grown stronger in prison it really weakens the "you must fear death" lesson learned while in the pit.

All of blake's scenes show aspects of his character that are important to him becoming a suitable batman replacement, he is not as skilled as batman in a fist fight but he doesn't need to be in order to carry on the torch, as he has the more important aspects that batman has to do his job these being: a remarkable intuition, a questioning mind, selflessness, and the absolute most important thing to being a hero, an unshakable will.

This is what he is showing when he is yelling impotantly at the barricade. he uses his quick mind to try and reason with the guards instead of just saying make a run for it, and puts himself in harms way for the kids. His will to live and to continue to fight is shown when after the bridge is destroyed and imminent nuclear death is approaching he tells the kids to get on the bus while saying "do you want them to die without hope?" instead of just pouting about it as you said. bruce knows that Blake has these qualities and it is the reason why he got him out of harms way, as he had already decided to make blake the next batman.

Catwoman is inspired by bruce's sacrifice and comes back and defeats bane, so in way the film does contain elements of the general arc that you suggest they just didn't proceed the way you invisioned it happening. i don't want to come off as attacking you but i honestly when reading your post couldn't help but think that a lot of the bad reviews that i hear about this film are a result of over hyping and presumptions on the part of the viewers, this happened to me with the Dark Knight and i find myself watching rises more often then i do the previous film.

also i do apoligise for anyone reading this to have to put up with my grammar and punctuation errors, its rather late and i'm very tired at the moment...

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Yeah, I don't think Dark Knight Rises is much fun or any good... 'underwhelming' fits like a glove, methinks.

Then there's the warped, all-over-the-place plot, the amazing time manipulation (over what time span are we actually witnessing these events and non-events unfold, again?), the Batman shooting people dead, the Power Rangers style recycling of cheaply enhanced assets, the... etc, etc, etc...

I like The Dark Knight. Not because or despite dead guy's Joker. He did an awesome job there, and his performance certainly is a pillar that keeps this package in the form of a happy-to-see-you tent, and not a pile of dirty underwear. Still, the movie works because it has just about everything a movie needs, and the omissions and artistic liberties taken do not detract or deform in the slightest.

Comparing Dark Knight Rises to it feels... very wrong. Just about everything is ill-fitting, the whole movie feels patched together from seemingly random scenes, there is no message, or an abundance of half-arsed messages, everything is jumbled and Bane's mumbling is just the icing on this poop cake. It's just got no soul.

From Batman Begins to The Dark Knight, there was a development in just about every aspect. Dark Knight Rises feels very much like an unwanted 'let's get it over with' thing to me.

As for Tom Hardy getting the Bane part... have you seen Bronson? In Bronson, he absolutely felt the part. His presence and acting was impressively top notch, I think. As mini Bane in a coat, though, he sucked major fuel nozzle.

I like your Nathan Jones suggestion. Not sure if he's much of an actor, but, as Bane, he'd mainly just have to rage and scream and fill the screen with glistening muscle meat. I'd totally dig that. He could still talk posh and not look like a psycho muppet.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

One thing that really bothered me about the movie was how Batman magically got back to Gotham. I guess I missed the part where Batman had the ability to fucking teleport. The only reason I ever get as to why he magically got there was "he's Batman." God, I hate that argument so much.

 

[Something Amyss]

From what little I know and have seen Bane is meant to be 9 foot tall and built like a Baneblade (see what I did thar?) Tom is shorter than Christian Bale!

And if Bane was a real person and this was a historical reenactment, then you'd have a point. Really, the movies already redefined the characters. As did the last series. As did the TV shows.

I mean, Bane didn't have any super powers in this either, did he? He was kind of...Different.

And that's the beauty of fiction! Rejoice in the ability to see differing versions of characters! This one might have eveb been interesting if the film didn't have so much crap bogging it down!

 

[vasiD]

I'm a pretty big Batman fan, and a pretty big fan of Begins, however I felt Rises was garbage. There were numerous moments where I felt like the director (or possibly the writer, though I thought Nolan was involved in that too) felt he was "too good" for Batman, so he had to spice it up with some of that oh so desirable Hollywood flair (this is what sarcasm looks like on the internet).

From the sudden plot twist of Talia (making Bane, one of Batman's greatest villains who actually thoroughly beat him WITH HIS WITS, little more than the muscle for the second time in film history) to that TERRIBLE fight scene, the film was a massive let down.

I still love the director, but for gods sake someone needs to let Grant Morrison write a Batman movie and someone with some fucking respect for the medium needs to direct it. That's the problem with most directors, they think film is so much better than comics. Yeah because Cheerleader Massacre is a timeless work of art. Films are sleazy at the end of the day, as is the whole industry, it can do great things (like every other artists endeavor) but it's just as scummy and retarded as any thing else. That is why I also get pissed off at game designers who spend their days slurping on balls shipped from Hollywood.

You know what, I miss the Adam West Batman. At least at no point in that show or the film did I ever feel like the actors, director and writers felt they were better than Batman. Christopher Nolan, you're awesome and have made some great films, timeless classics, but you still don't have shit on Batman.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I never thought I could be more bored by a Nolan Batman movie than I already was by his previous ones. The movies lack pazazz or anything else that makes you feel like you're watching a super hero movie.

Rises took it to a new level of bland though. Oddly I sorta liked Catwoman Selina Kyle in those first few scenes she's in, finally adding some playfulness to this overly serious incarnation of... Batman. By the time Gordon sent every fucking police officer into the sewer though, I gave up. The more serious this movie tried to be, the more ridiculous it came across.

Also...

 

[Trull]

To me, the only problem was the pacing - other than that, everything else makes sense. Bane sounding British is fine, as he was not built up to be Mexican (?) like before.

The happy ending felt forced. Not only was it confusing and logically improbable if not impossible, it took all weight and pathos from the preceding 5-10 minutes.

No, made complete sense.

 

[omega 616]

snip

Not really, Bane in the the DCUO was a big hulking dude, in the comic he was a big hulking dude, in Batman forever he was a big hulking dude ... then you make him about the same size as batman? Why?

The first fight was supposed to be squash match. The point was to establish Bane as the alpha dog. I enjoyed it for the Shit talking Bane does while he is kicking Bruce's ass. Also comparing a fight in a martial arts film in which the fight is the the core of the film to a action film is a bit unfair.

The purpose of the fight is not what bothers me, it's how the fight looked.

Like I've said, not a batman fan but from what I can gather he is meant to know all kinds of fighting techniques and be super shape but he throws these wild, looping punches and his movements are all slow. I could understand Bane being slow as he is meant to be a powerhouse but Batman is meant to be fast and precise, stick and move ... hide in the shadows and strike at the right time with speed.

Instead he is as slow as Bane, stupidly trying to out brawl the brawler. It's not Batman VS Bane, it's Bane VS Bane ... then to top it off in the second fight he wins 'cos he is scared of Gotham destroyed? Death?

I only picked that film 'cos I wanted to show you what the first Bane VS Batman fight could be like. Batman could land a few quick strikes, none of which phase Bane, Bane strikes back with a powerful 3 hit combo and sends Batman staggering back, Batman realizing he needs to up game starts jumping off walls to put more weight behind each strike or attacks the legs to take Banes base away (using intelligence like he is meant to have) but it barely effects Bane and so on until the powerful punches from Bane slow the agile Batman to a crawl ... that is when bane rips the mask off etc.

I may have batman wrong but isn't that what he is about?

 

[Something Amyss]

Not really, Bane in the the DCUO was a big hulking dude, in the comic he was a big hulking dude, in Batman forever he was a big hulking dude ... then you make him about the same size as batman? Why?

But this wasn't DCUO or Arkham City or Batman Forever. And really, that last one is probably a good thing.

So, I'm curious where the "not really" comes in.

 

[thetoddo]

I feel the movie was overly long and share many of the criticisms listed above. I went in knowing that it would likely not be as good as The Dark Knight, but I thought it would be at least as good as Batman Begins. I left disappointed, though I have to say I probably would have forgotten all about most of the movie if the "Robin" bit had been changed to his real name being Terry.

Honestly I just want them to do a live action The Dark Knight returns. Have Bruce Willis (or Edward James Olmos if he could get back into fighting shape) as Batman, Mark Hamill as the Joker, Molly Quinn as Robin and heck, keep Oldman and Cavil as Gordon and Supes. I think there'd be money to be made.

*ahem*

Back on topic. The movie could easily have been a half hour shorter, or perhaps broken up into two movies where the first one ends with Wayne being thrown into the pit and the second fleshing out the secondary characters and giving them something to do during the months Gotham is under Bane's control before Batman's return for the final confrontation.

 

[Darks63]

snip

Not really, Bane in the the DCUO was a big hulking dude, in the comic he was a big hulking dude, in Batman forever he was a big hulking dude ... then you make him about the same size as batman? Why?

The first fight was supposed to be squash match. The point was to establish Bane as the alpha dog. I enjoyed it for the Shit talking Bane does while he is kicking Bruce's ass. Also comparing a fight in a martial arts film in which the fight is the the core of the film to a action film is a bit unfair.

The purpose of the fight is not what bothers me, it's how the fight looked.

Like I've said, not a batman fan but from what I can gather he is meant to know all kinds of fighting techniques and be super shape but he throws these wild, looping punches and his movements are all slow. I could understand Bane being slow as he is meant to be a powerhouse but Batman is meant to be fast and precise, stick and move ... hide in the shadows and strike at the right time with speed.

Instead he is as slow as Bane, stupidly trying to out brawl the brawler. It's not Batman VS Bane, it's Bane VS Bane ... then to top it off in the second fight he wins 'cos he is scared of Gotham destroyed? Death?

I only picked that film 'cos I wanted to show you what the first Bane VS Batman fight could be like. Batman could land a few quick strikes, none of which phase Bane, Bane strikes back with a powerful 3 hit combo and sends Batman staggering back, Batman realizing he needs to up game starts jumping off walls to put more weight behind each strike or attacks the legs to take Banes base away (using intelligence like he is meant to have) but it barely effects Bane and so on until the powerful punches from Bane slow the agile Batman to a crawl ... that is when bane rips the mask off etc.

I may have batman wrong but isn't that what he is about?

Well this is Nolan Dark Knight keep that in mind. He injured his knees badly at the end of The Dark Knight. Add to that his physical condition was utter shit he had been limping around Wayne manor for years letting his conditioning go to pot. He really doesn't prep much before the first fight he just throws himself back into like hes still a young man even though he is in his 40's or close to them in this film. On the Opposite of things here is Bane a guy in his 30's at peak physical condition and has been fighting/training for all this time. It was a Mismatch that Batman was destined to lose much like how he lost the first fight in the DC universe due to Being Exhausted by Banes ploy. In this film he loses because he is old and out of shape to put it simply.

For the Intelligence side of things not to say that Nolan's Batman is dumb but keep in mind that alot of good ideas and insight in the NolanVerse Batman comes from his most trusted Advisers Lucius Fox And Alfred.

I Do agree that a little movie magic to make Hardy A little bigger would have been a Nice thing for Comic Fans. Although You have to give it to Tom Hardy he made a beast out of himself for this film.