Can I talk about this modern trend in "diversity casting in TV shows?"

[Dreiko]

This is all very simple, if everyone's equal then having a bunch of one type of race is the same as having more types, since it's all the same anyways. People of different races should be able to empathize with the humanity of that one group and not need their own little niche catered to in order to be able to watch something.

Kung fu flicks should be all chinese people (with maybe that one guy that uses a different martial art who is usually the villain being something else, and only sparsely), the boondocks is mainly a black show so it's black chars, tolkeinesque fantasy is all nordic and other european people, thousand and one nights is all arabic folk, anime is all japanese people unless otherwise stated in the lore (irrespective of eye or hair color, those go towards depicting personality traits) so on and so forth. All are worthwhile stories, all are worth catering to. If you want something to have more support, just watch it and buy merch of it more, don't try to somehow usurp other things into being more like it, those things are fine being themselves.

The only racist is the one who finds something wrong with the above.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

This is all very simple, if everyone's equal then having a bunch of one type of race is the same as having more types, since it's all the same anyways. People of different races should be able to empathize with the humanity of that one group and not need their own little niche catered to in order to be able to watch something.

Kung fu flicks should be all chinese people (with maybe that one guy that uses a different martial art who is usually the villain being something else, and only sparsely), the boondocks is mainly a black show so it's black chars, tolkeinesque fantasy is all nordic and other european people, thousand and one nights is all arabic folk, anime is all japanese people unless otherwise stated in the lore (irrespective of eye or hair color, those go towards depicting personality traits) so on and so forth. All are worthwhile stories, all are worth catering to. If you want something to have more support, just watch it and buy merch of it more, don't try to somehow usurp other things into being more like it, those things are fine being themselves.

The only racist is the one who finds something wrong with the above.

This dumbass criteria would've shutteredYes, Madam for staring Malaysian actress Michelle Yeoh and USain Cynthia Rothrock and I thus cannot support it in any way.

This is pretty much exactly why this entire line of dumbassery is bullshit.

 

[Silvanus]

This is all very simple, if everyone's equal then having a bunch of one type of race is the same as having more types, since it's all the same anyways.

But equal does not mean the same.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Then your argument is the effective opposite of the one presented by immortalfrieza.

Not at all. There's a massive difference between say a lesbian character flirting with and kissing girls occasionally during whatever media's runtime and the advertising, the characters, the story and everything all screaming as loud as possible "HEY!!! LOOK LOOK!!! WE'VE GOT A LESBIAN IN OUR SHOW/BOOK/GAME/etc.!!! AREN'T WE PROGRESSIVE!?!?!"

Subtlety is a lost art in a lot of media, so the latter tends to show up a lot more than the former. There's not a thin line between these portrayals either. There's a 1000 foot wide 100 mile long wall with guards posted every 20 feet between simply having a diversity character who shows some traits of said diversity every so often and one that clearly exists just to check off a diversity check box. This includes when that media is specifically about that particular diversity. The former is there to serve a purpose in the story, the latter is there in nothing more than a cheap and very badly done attempt to be progressive in order to avoid controversy and promote themselves.

To put it another way, I wouldn't walk around town and expect every black guy I meet to have dreadlocks, wear a do rag and constantly tell me "Yo dawg! What you doing in this hood?" or whatever stereotypical black guy nonsense you could name and I don't expect to see it in my entertainment either. Even black people who do some of those kinds of things don't act like that all the time.

Like I said, if you can even notice the diversity character is there for the sake of diversity, that diversity is being done wrong.

 

[Piscian]

I keep thinking about Disney removing black stormtrooper from the Chinese Star Wars posters

Dune Alters Poster for China, Removes Black Actress, Stirs Up Force Awakens Controversy

Dune is struggling at the box office all around the world. It’s receiving mixed reviews, but it was going to be a tough go for anyone not familiar with

www.geeksandgamers.com

I feel like considering this kind of thing is still happening I stand by my belief that we need for a wave of diversity casting if only to try and desensitize people. I just do not believe we are a point where there is equal opportunity casting happening across the board. I also think we are at a dangerous precipice with many US schools either refusing to teach black history at all or heavily censoring it. When you look at the big picture, doing these kinds of diversity shaped casting projects is kind of a nothing burger.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I keep thinking about Disney removing black stormtrooper from the Chinese Star Wars posters

Dune Alters Poster for China, Removes Black Actress, Stirs Up Force Awakens Controversy

Dune is struggling at the box office all around the world. It’s receiving mixed reviews, but it was going to be a tough go for anyone not familiar with

www.geeksandgamers.com

I feel like considering this kind of thing is still happening I stand by my belief that we need for a wave of diversity casting if only to try and desensitize people. I just do not believe we are a point where there is equal opportunity casting happening across the board. I also think we are at a dangerous precipice with many US schools either refusing to teach black history at all or heavily censoring it. When you look at the big picture, doing these kinds of diversity shaped casting projects is kind of a nothing burger.

Interesting to see that ZEndaya is not dark enough to offend the Chinese market.

Hollywood has done this for a while where they always cast the one chinese actor to cater to China. They are never the star but they also are always super competent and do just enough to be cool but not totally upstage the hero.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Not at all. There's a massive difference between say a lesbian character flirting with and kissing girls occasionally during whatever media's runtime and the advertising, the characters, the story and everything all screaming as loud as possible "HEY!!! LOOK LOOK!!! WE'VE GOT A LESBIAN IN OUR SHOW/BOOK/GAME/etc.!!! AREN'T WE PROGRESSIVE!?!?!"

Subtlety is a lost art in a lot of media, so the latter tends to show up a lot more than the former. There's not a thin line between these portrayals either. There's a 1000 foot wide 100 mile long wall with guards posted every 20 feet between simply having a diversity character who shows some traits of said diversity every so often and one that clearly exists just to check off a diversity check box. This includes when that media is specifically about that particular diversity. The former is there to serve a purpose in the story, the latter is there in nothing more than a cheap and very badly done attempt to be progressive in order to avoid controversy and promote themselves.

To put it another way, I wouldn't walk around town and expect every black guy I meet to have dreadlocks, wear a do rag and constantly tell me "Yo dawg! What you doing in this hood?" or whatever stereotypical black guy nonsense you could name and I don't expect to see it in my entertainment either. Even black people who do some of those kinds of things don't act like that all the time.

Like I said, if you can even notice the diversity character is there for the sake of diversity, that diversity is being done wrong.

The solution to that is to have a wildly diverse cast, lest the singular example of brown skin gets noticed for being unique and therefore "is for diversity"

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Interesting to see that ZEndaya is not dark enough to offend the Chinese market.

I mean, colorism is definitely a thing, doubly so in a lot of Asian countries

We Need to Talk About Hollywood’s Colorism Problem

The industry has yet to portray the diversity of black beauty.

www.teenvogue.com

My Fair Skin Gives Me "Pretty Privilege" — Here's the Problem

"It feels like being suddenly submerged."

www.teenvogue.com

 

[Casual Shinji]

This is all very simple, if everyone's equal then having a bunch of one type of race is the same as having more types, since it's all the same anyways. People of different races should be able to empathize with the humanity of that one group and not need their own little niche catered to in order to be able to watch something.

This only makes sense to people who believe racism no longer exists. And those people would be incredibly stupid... and probably also racist.

 

[Silvanus]

Not at all. There's a massive difference between say a lesbian character flirting with and kissing girls occasionally during whatever media's runtime and the advertising, the characters, the story and everything all screaming as loud as possible "HEY!!! LOOK LOOK!!! WE'VE GOT A LESBIAN IN OUR SHOW/BOOK/GAME/etc.!!! AREN'T WE PROGRESSIVE!?!?!"

Subtlety is a lost art in a lot of media, so the latter tends to show up a lot more than the former. There's not a thin line between these portrayals either. There's a 1000 foot wide 100 mile long wall with guards posted every 20 feet between simply having a diversity character who shows some traits of said diversity every so often and one that clearly exists just to check off a diversity check box.
This includes when that media is specifically about that particular diversity. The former is there to serve a purpose in the story, the latter is there in nothing more than a cheap and very badly done attempt to be progressive in order to avoid controversy and promote themselves.

So... you believe art shouldn't focus on issues which are particularly relevant to certain groups of people? Art shouldn't focus on (say) the experience of racism, slavery, sexual assault, the experience of coming out, the Aids crisis, periods etc.?

To put it another way, I wouldn't walk around town and expect every black guy I meet to have dreadlocks, wear a do rag and constantly tell me "Yo dawg! What you doing in this hood?" or whatever stereotypical black guy nonsense you could name and I don't expect to see it in my entertainment either. Even black people who do some of those kinds of things don't act like that all the time.

But that's just stereotyping. Earlier you were talking about how plotlines should just always treat them interchangeably. These are different questions.

Like I said, if you can even notice the diversity character is there for the sake of diversity, that diversity is being done wrong.

"For the sake of diversity" is quite a catch-all value judgement. And storylines focusing on issues which have specific resonance for specific groups of people is not it-- but tends to get the accusation nonetheless.

 

[CriticalGaming]

"For the sake of diversity" is quite a catch-all value judgement. And storylines focusing on issues which have specific resonance for specific groups of people is not it-- but tends to get the accusation nonetheless.

Catch-all maybe, but everyone can tell when it's happening. Usually when a film or show fails and they blame it on the audience being racist or sexist, that's a good indication that they made a diverse movie for the sake of the diversity and not for anything to suit the project.

 

[Dreiko]

But equal does not mean the same.

Yes but that lack of sameness is not because of the race of those people, it's because of their cultures, traditions, topographical characteristics, so on and so forth. The Eskimos are not good at building igloos because they're Eskimos, they're good at that because they live in the freaking NORTH POLE which necessitated they get good at it.

This dumbass criteria would've shutteredYes, Madam for staring Malaysian actress Michelle Yeoh and USain Cynthia Rothrock and I thus cannot support it in any way.

This is pretty much exactly why this entire line of dumbassery is bullshit.

I don't understand how it would have shuttered anything. I have no idea what sort of piece of media you're referencing but surely it's not something so fragile as to live or die based on one actress. Very few things are.


I'm just saying if you have something like the Black Panther, it doesn't make sense to cast the protagonist or antagonist as a white guy, that scientist guy being white was good enough for a movie like that and he was from a different country so it made sense, he wasn't a random white Wakandan. Do you get it now?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I don't understand how it would have shuttered anything. I have no idea what sort of piece of media you're referencing but surely it's not something so fragile as to live or die based on one actress. Very few things are.

Yes, Madam is a classic Hong Kong action movie who's two protagonists were not Chinese. How is "only Chinese people should be in martial arts movies" the not racist option here?

 

[bluegate]

I blinked and suddenly this thread got up to 6 pages... Jowsers.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Catch-all maybe, but everyone can tell when it's happening. Usually when a film or show fails and they blame it on the audience being racist or sexist, that's a good indication that they made a diverse movie for the sake of the diversity and not for anything to suit the project.

Or it's because a black stormtrooper showed up in a trailer long before the movie came out.

 

[Dreiko]

Yes, Madam is a classic Hong Kong action movie who's two protagonists were not Chinese. How is "only Chinese people should be in martial arts movies" the not racist option here?

Err, I said Kung Fu movie, you know, Drunken Master? Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon, IP man, stuff like that.

The movie you're talking about is from Hong Kong which has a lot of western influences due to being a British colony until relatively recently, not mainland China, and that movie is more like a contemporary martial artist cop thing. I guess you could count it among some of the american Jackie Chun stuff he did later in his career but those are not really what I was describing as a Kung Fu movie. Those are more just action movies with kung fu in them.


Basically, no, this thing would not be unmade because it's already heavily influenced by the west anyways so it makes sense to be heterodox.

This only makes sense to people who believe racism no longer exists. And those people would be incredibly stupid... and probably also racist.

When you're sitting down to watch something you are temporarily transported to a pocket dimension called fiction wherein it doesn't exist unless you bring it with you.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Or it's because a black stormtrooper showed up in a trailer long before the movie came out.

I don't remember people crying too much about Finn prior to the film's release. But I might have missed it maybe?

Technically I do think it goes against the lore of the universe because aren't the Stormtroopers supposed to be clones of the emperor or some shit. Thus Finn being a black guy goes against the lore previously established. The same goes for Captain Fantasma as there can be no female troopers due to the fact that they are clones. The Disney trilogy really didn't give a fuck about the cannon from what I've heard which probably enrages fanboys more than a pallet swap on a person.

You don't fuck with cannon, that's like nerd-dom rule 101.

So outcry about Finn could have been racist, but it probably doesn't originate from a racist place. Corilation not equaling causation and all that.

 

[Dreiko]

I don't remember people crying too much about Finn prior to the film's release. But I might have missed it maybe?

Technically I do think it goes against the lore of the universe because aren't the Stormtroopers supposed to be clones of the emperor or some shit. Thus Finn being a black guy goes against the lore previously established. The same goes for Captain Fantasma as there can be no female troopers due to the fact that they are clones. The Disney trilogy really didn't give a fuck about the cannon from what I've heard which probably enrages fanboys more than a pallet swap on a person.

You don't fuck with cannon, that's like nerd-dom rule 101.

So outcry about Finn could have been racist, but it probably doesn't originate from a racist place. Corilation not equaling causation and all that.

One thing I know is if I was china I'd be more pissed at that chubby asian engineer lady who was intended to be comedic relief but was just terrible in every scene she was part of than Finn who actually should have been the protagonist of the movie instead of being cucked into oblivion by emo vader larper bro.

 

[bluegate]

I don't remember people crying too much about Finn prior to the film's release. But I might have missed it maybe?

Technically I do think it goes against the lore of the universe because aren't the Stormtroopers supposed to be clones of the emperor or some shit. Thus Finn being a black guy goes against the lore previously established. The same goes for Captain Fantasma as there can be no female troopers due to the fact that they are clones. The Disney trilogy really didn't give a fuck about the cannon from what I've heard which probably enrages fanboys more than a pallet swap on a person.

You don't fuck with cannon, that's like nerd-dom rule 101.

So outcry about Finn could have been racist, but it probably doesn't originate from a racist place. Corilation not equaling causation and all that.

You're thinking of Clone Troopers, which were all clones.

Storm Troopers are people from general population who enlisted.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I don't remember people crying too much about Finn prior to the film's release. But I might have missed it maybe?

Technically I do think it goes against the lore of the universe because aren't the Stormtroopers supposed to be clones of the emperor or some shit. Thus Finn being a black guy goes against the lore previously established. The same goes for Captain Fantasma as there can be no female troopers due to the fact that they are clones. The Disney trilogy really didn't give a fuck about the cannon from what I've heard which probably enrages fanboys more than a pallet swap on a person.

You don't fuck with cannon, that's like nerd-dom rule 101.

So outcry about Finn could have been racist, but it probably doesn't originate from a racist place. Corilation not equaling causation and all that.

No. Stormtroopers were never and have never been clones in any set of canon.