Can (Internet) Piracy ever be Justified?

[Phishfood]

Everybody with an internet connection has done at least one of them on accident.

Do you have any proof, or? It's fine if you want to make claims with zero evidence, just don't claim them as fact.

Can you prove you've never pirated anything?

Can't prove a negative.

On another topic - cracking a game you have bought is NOT piracy, you bought the game.

Personally, I think piracy can easily be justified in ONE situation - the product is impossible to obtain legally. Either it has been discontinued or never reached an area. I've pirated a few games that litterally CAN NOT BE BOUGHT. Legal? no. But bung em on steam or something for £5 I will probably buy them.

Then there are plenty of grey areas. Some examples:

1) Lets say I miss an episode of Doctor Who and I miss it on the iplayer. I pay my TV license, I am perfectly entitled to watch the show. Does it REALLY matter if I pirate it and watch it outside their time slot?

2) I have a £100 box set of a TV series, I tell my friend to watch it. He can't afford £100 for a DVD box set, especially not on something he possibly won't like. I can't get the set to him easily. He pirates it to watch it and may or may not end up buying if he likes it.

3) A product you own on different medium. E.g. pirating the PC copy of a game you own on xbox or pirating an ebook you own the actual book for.

By the letter of the law all the above 3 are illegal but you will NEVER convince me that they cause harm to the industry. Especially games which seem to be trying to stop you even lending a game to a friend. Nothing stops me lending a DVD to a friend and libraries have been lending books for years, the industry seems fine.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Everybody with an internet connection has done at least one of them on accident.

Do you have any proof, or? It's fine if you want to make claims with zero evidence, just don't claim them as fact.

and also, it wasn't omyn claiming you have pirated, it was you claiming you've never pirated and omyn asking you if that's true or not.

Hence "you mean to tell me you've never...?"

Quit feeding the troll and mash the report button. This thread has been thoroughly derailed, and if Hive Mind didn't break the don't be a dick rule, I don't know what would.

All I asked was that you provide evidence to support your claims that everyone on the internet has committed piracy. If you had simply said you cannot, there would be no need for this conversation to occur.

Common knowledge + Logic = your answer. And I'm sorry to tell you this, but with an attitude like you've shown me this morning, I'm not expecting you to last long on these forums. At this point, I've reported you because you need a warning from someone with some authority. Did you read the rules or lurk at all before joining?

If it is common knowledge, could you please supply some evidence? If facts are readily available that prove your claims to the common people, it should be easy for you to present some.

I'm kind of enjoying this, actually; listen, dude, you aren't going to get a formal link. You're the only one arguing that it isn't common knowledge. Besides, you never answered my question; have you never, not once in your life, done any of the things on that list? And if not the things on that list, the second list two posts up from your first post after I wrote down the list?

Edit: And it's sufficiently proven to the common people because they're the ones doing it. I know a lot more shameless pirates in real life than I do online.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Internet piracy can totally be justified.

Check this out:

Someone puts a gun to your head and says "Download this sweet-ass Billy Squier album for me or I'll shoot you and your entire family."

Bam. Totally justified.

 

[Hive Mind]

-

Okay. You are saying your opinion cannot be supported by evidence because none exists; it 'just is'.

That's all I wanted to make sure of.

 

[thahat]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

he's generalizing too much, but in 99,9% of the time he will be right ( there might be one in a thousand that has NOT done it i gues? ) i mean if my country, here in the netherland would suddenly make downloading stuff illigal, more then 65% of the population would be in jail XD?
and the jailors would be OLD OLD PEOPLE who know nothing of pc's XD, wait, stripe that, even my grandad of 85 is/has been an internet pirate XD

 

[Dogstile]

Yes.

There are some games you'll never find a copy of. Abandonware and the like. Downloading abandonware is still piracy, except the company doesn't actually care. Either because it doesn't exist anymore it the games are so old they don't sell them anymore.

Still piracy

 

[kayisking]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Ah, come on. You know he's mostly right. I thought that we on the escapist agreed that most people in the world were nothing more then mindless zombies that are being led by the nose by charismatic political and religious figures and don't have even the smallest bit of moral consciense. You know, idiots. So thats 98 percent for you right there.
Ps. I do not wish to offend anybody and you should read this message within its own context.
PPs. Sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native speaker.

 

[Shirokurou]

The only semi-justification I can think of goes like this.
"This thing isn't even licensed in my country and there is no way I can buy it legally, so the creator isn't losing any money"

 

[Hive Mind]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Ah, come on. You know he's mostly right. I thought that we on the escapist agreed that most people in the world were nothing more then mindless zombies that are being led by the nose by charismatic political and religious figures and don't have even the smallest bit of moral consciense. You know, idiots. So thats 98 percent for you right there.
Ps. I do not wish to offend anybody and you should read this message within its own context.
PPs. Sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native speaker.

Jesus, for someone that isn't a native speaker you have amazing English.

 

[kayisking]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Ah, come on. You know he's mostly right. I thought that we on the escapist agreed that most people in the world were nothing more then mindless zombies that are being led by the nose by charismatic political and religious figures and don't have even the smallest bit of moral consciense. You know, idiots. So thats 98 percent for you right there.
Ps. I do not wish to offend anybody and you should read this message within its own context.
PPs. Sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native speaker.

Jesus, for someone that isn't a native speaker you have amazing English.

Thanks man, I had to practice on it a lot (Read: Play videogames 8 hours a day).

 

[Hive Mind]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Ah, come on. You know he's mostly right. I thought that we on the escapist agreed that most people in the world were nothing more then mindless zombies that are being led by the nose by charismatic political and religious figures and don't have even the smallest bit of moral consciense. You know, idiots. So thats 98 percent for you right there.
Ps. I do not wish to offend anybody and you should read this message within its own context.
PPs. Sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native speaker.

Jesus, for someone that isn't a native speaker you have amazing English.

Thanks man, I had to practice on it a lot (Read: Play videogames 8 hours a day).

I'm no man, but you're welcome, lol.

May I ask what your native tongue is? I'm told English is very hard to learn as a second language.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

-

Okay. You are saying your opinion cannot be supported by evidence because none exists; it 'just is'.

That's all I wanted to make sure of.

Actually, read the thread you've been posting in. The fact that I have people agreeing with me is proof enough that it's common knowledge, which is the standard we're trying to hit here; I don't have the time, the money, or the inclination to run a formal study on what the percentage is that has committed piracy, but this thread just proved my common knowledge claim.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

I once tried to pirate an internet, but I got backtraced

 

[EHKOS]

I think if you bought it legally the first time then you should be able to. If it is an out of region game that will never come to you then it's ok. Or if it is old enough like an NES game you should be able to.

Now downloading the PC version because you bought the 360 version...I don't know about that.

 

[night_chrono]

Still waiting for someone to answer my question:

If it was the social norm for all forms of music and art to be freely exchanged, would you still be against it?

 

[Super Toast]

If you've never done anything on that list, congratulations; you're either a saint, living in the stone age, or a liar.

Once again, your psychic abilities amaze me!

You know, most people would do things like provide research evidence and show how they came to these conclusions -- sources, interviews, tests, etc., etc. But I guess you can just say something you believe is true and it becomes fact. Amazing.

If you have anything to add to the discussion aside from sarcasm, please do. Otherwise, quit trolling; my hand is hovering over the report button as it is.

I'm sorry, is asking for you to supply evidence for your claims an act of trolling? I was under the assumption that this was a forum for discussion and most people like to support their opinions with fact.

Please stop acting like such a jerk.

OT: I suppose if there is no way to use the product otherwise, it's okay.

 

[Thaliur]

There's one good reason I can think of for older games (from the time when game disc were single-language datasets).
If you buy a game in your country, and the translation downright sucks, I think it's completely justified to download the English version. I guess they might even accept the localized disk for copy protection, so it should be acceptable.

Also, games that are just not available anymore, or never were in your area, although that's relative, now that we have the internet (which would also be the way to get those games...)

 

[Hive Mind]

-

Okay. You are saying your opinion cannot be supported by evidence because none exists; it 'just is'.

That's all I wanted to make sure of.

Actually, read the thread you've been posting in. The fact that I have people agreeing with me is proof enough that it's common knowledge, which is the standard we're trying to hit here; I don't have the time, the money, or the inclination to run a formal study on what the percentage is that has committed piracy, but this thread just proved my common knowledge claim.

I'm not arguing that you don't think you're right -- or that no one else does. I'm arguing that you cannot provide any evidence for your standpoint beyond 'because everyone knows it'. Everyone knows a lot of things, like Sol revolving Earth.

Your claims could be true. But you can't, by your own admission, supply any evidence for them.

That is all I'm saying.

 

[Agayek]

Hey all,

Firstly, I know that the Escapist is very anti-piracy. I am in no way attempting to condone piracy in this thread, I am merely asking if there are any ways in which piracy can be defended.

By Piracy I just don't mean video games, I mean movies and music as well.

Are there really any logical reasons for why piracy is a good thing? What positive things does it promote?

Or is it just bad for all involved?

Also, I really don't want anyone to be reported because they are defending piracy in a way. So I would ask you all not to get angry and report those who seem like they are condoning piracy themselves, because it is just a hypothetical discussion in this thread.

Thanks!

Oh and if mods feel that this thread somehow breaches some piracy forum rule then you can delete it, but I couldn't find anything in the rules.

Piracy is a legitimate option in one of two scenarios:

1) You literally cannot experience the media in any other way. For example, it's not released in your country or there is no version in your native language.

2) You've already purchased the media in question. The way I see it, if you buy something and lose the disk or whatever, it's perfectly legitimate to download another copy. You've already paid for it, there's no reason to have to pay for it again.

Any situation involving piracy that does not fit one of those criteria is simply wrong. It's not technically theft, but the spirit behind it is the same. You take something without paying for it, because you're an entitled twit.

That said, piracy can potentially be good, in some circumstances. It's not, but if you follow the same principle as open-source software, wherein you make something freely available to everyone and let them edit it as they please (obviously, this likely wouldn't work for movies and the like), everyone can benefit greatly, assuming people redistribute their edits. I have not seen an instance of piracy that actually does such a thing, but there is potential for it.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

-

Okay. You are saying your opinion cannot be supported by evidence because none exists; it 'just is'.

That's all I wanted to make sure of.

Actually, read the thread you've been posting in. The fact that I have people agreeing with me is proof enough that it's common knowledge, which is the standard we're trying to hit here; I don't have the time, the money, or the inclination to run a formal study on what the percentage is that has committed piracy, but this thread just proved my common knowledge claim.

I'm not arguing that you don't think you're right -- or that no one else does. I'm arguing that you cannot provide any evidence for your standpoint beyond 'because everyone knows it'. Everyone knows a lot of things, like Sol revolving Earth.

Your claims could be true. But you can't, by your own admission, supply any evidence for them.

That is all I'm saying.

You realize that the only reason I can't is because of the rule against admitting to piracy, right? When something is common knowledge because it's something people know about themselves, it really doesn't need a high standard of proof. This is like me saying "everybody poops" and you asking for scientific proof, when it's not necessary in the slightest.