Can (Internet) Piracy ever be Justified?

[RoBi3.0]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Edit: Also, you mean to tell me that you have never once:

Downloaded a movie
Downloaded an episode of a TV show
Downloaded an MP3
Downloaded a videogame
borrowed and made a copy of a CD
Borrowed and made a copy of a videogame
Borrowed and ripped a CD
Borrowed and installed a DRM free videogame
Or
Made a mix tape?

Making a mix tape is not piracy. The license you get when you buy your music entitles you to as many backup copies as you care to make. The minute you start handing out mix tapes to people is where the line is crossed.

Besides just because someone has done something in the passed doesn't mean that regardless of wither they have discontinued, doing it they are never allowed to morally oppose it anymore.

Edit: OT stuff.

Personally I don't like piracy I refuse to do it, but I could care less what others on the internet are up to. If they want to be pirates more power to them, just please but make stupid accuses for yourselves.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Edit: Also, you mean to tell me that you have never once:

Downloaded a movie
Downloaded an episode of a TV show
Downloaded an MP3
Downloaded a videogame
borrowed and made a copy of a CD
Borrowed and made a copy of a videogame
Borrowed and ripped a CD
Borrowed and installed a DRM free videogame
Or
Made a mix tape?

Making a mix tape is not piracy. The license you get when you buy your music entitles you to as many backup copies as you care to make. The minute you start handing out mix tapes to people is where the line is crossed.

Besides just because someone has done something in the passed doesn't mean that regardless of wither they have discontinued, doing it they are never allowed to morally oppose it anymore.

Well, you just hit on it; handing out the mix. Aside from a brief time in the late 90's/early 2000s, between the advent of CD burners and the advent of the MP3 Player, mix tapes are and have been generally made to be given away. Heck, even in that time period, there was a lot of sharing going on.

Edit: Also, that particular post wasn't about morality or legality. I made a statement to the effect that the rule against admitting to piracy was kind of tough to follow, because nearly everyone who has access to the internet has done it as some point, and Hive Mind starting trying to derail the thread by going "oh really, everyone?" He succeeded.

 

[Agayek]

Ya rly.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.281678-Can-Internet-Piracy-ever-be-Justified?page=3#11030763

What a seasoned debater.

That's actually kinda impressive. I'm somewhat sad I missed the epic troll being epic.

 

[RoBi3.0]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Edit: Also, you mean to tell me that you have never once:

Downloaded a movie
Downloaded an episode of a TV show
Downloaded an MP3
Downloaded a videogame
borrowed and made a copy of a CD
Borrowed and made a copy of a videogame
Borrowed and ripped a CD
Borrowed and installed a DRM free videogame
Or
Made a mix tape?

Making a mix tape is not piracy. The license you get when you buy your music entitles you to as many backup copies as you care to make. The minute you start handing out mix tapes to people is where the line is crossed.

Besides just because someone has done something in the passed doesn't mean that regardless of wither they have discontinued, doing it they are never allowed to morally oppose it anymore.

Well, you just hit on it; handing out the mix. Aside from a brief time in the late 90's/early 2000s, between the advent of CD burners and the advent of the MP3 Player, mix tapes are and have been generally made to be given away. Heck, even in that time period, there was a lot of sharing going on.

What is your point?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Edit: Also, you mean to tell me that you have never once:

Downloaded a movie
Downloaded an episode of a TV show
Downloaded an MP3
Downloaded a videogame
borrowed and made a copy of a CD
Borrowed and made a copy of a videogame
Borrowed and ripped a CD
Borrowed and installed a DRM free videogame
Or
Made a mix tape?

Making a mix tape is not piracy. The license you get when you buy your music entitles you to as many backup copies as you care to make. The minute you start handing out mix tapes to people is where the line is crossed.

Besides just because someone has done something in the passed doesn't mean that regardless of wither they have discontinued, doing it they are never allowed to morally oppose it anymore.

Well, you just hit on it; handing out the mix. Aside from a brief time in the late 90's/early 2000s, between the advent of CD burners and the advent of the MP3 Player, mix tapes are and have been generally made to be given away. Heck, even in that time period, there was a lot of sharing going on.

What is your point?

See my edit for the answer; the post you quoted was refuting something highly specific, and borderline off topic.

 

[MattRooney06]

No. Owning a copy, not being able to own a copy, being poor, owning a broken copy, or anything else doesn't matter.

Entitlement - some people haz it.

i don't think being poor is entitlement.....i agree with all the others but being poor dosnt seem right

i mean if dont have enough cash for somthing then thats sad but it dosnt mean you can just have it

oh well thats just me


OC: i don't think it can unless you alredy own a copy of the game, and then you shouldent really be passing it on, my least favourite argument is "i was never going to buy it anyway so its no loss to them" if you were never going to buy it then that dosnt mean you can just take.....rrrrr thats probably just me though lol

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Argh, I just accidentally reported myself while trying to click on something else. If I get modded because of that, I'm not sure whether I should laugh my butt off, or get annoyed.

 

[Kargathia]

It might be just me, but why exactly are you trying so hard to find a justification? If we break this down, then:

- The industry is going to keep on opposing it, as they value their bottom line above any moral points as "xxx should be shared freely for the benefit of all"
- There will be pirates as long as the opportunity is there - it's just other people who value their bottom line above any moral points as "you shalt not steal"

So that leaves us with the ones whose moral compass tells them they shouldn't be doing it, but are still wistfully looking at the cake.

Meh, just man up: either don't pirate, or admit that you're a selfish bastard, and happily pirate away - but then also face any eventual consequences without crying about it.

Your call. Have fun.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

But you are if you have the good luck to be born into a situation that allows you to get whatever it is you want? Pot, meet the kettle.

Thanks. Took the words right out of my mouth.

What a well thought-out, informative and may I say insightful response.

Also, You.... you guys realize he's never gonna stop, right? Not till the Mods lock this Thread?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

But you are if you have the good luck to be born into a situation that allows you to get whatever it is you want? Pot, meet the kettle.

Thanks. Took the words right out of my mouth.

What a well thought-out, informative and may I say insightful response.

Also, You.... you guys realize he's never gonna stop, right? Not till the Mods lock this Thread?

Actually, he already gave up; it got to a point where he couldn't argue any further without giving up what little semblance of following the rules he had. Of course, the blatant attempts to get a rise out of me in three of his first four posts in this thread have gone unpunished, despite quite a few clicks of the report button; I was kind of hoping a mod would see that while he was still in the thread. Come to think of it, they may have; not all warnings are made public. He could have left the thread because he got a warning.

Edit: Oh wow, he's on probation now, and it was for a post that I didn't report at all. At least he can't use the "you reported me because you lost the argument" line now.

 

[theultimateend]

No. Owning a copy, not being able to own a copy, being poor, owning a broken copy, or anything else doesn't matter.

Entitlement - some people haz it.

And a thick level of irony sets in over the land.

To the OP, as someone who doesn't pirate but has seen no evidence to support the backlash against it: Yes it can be justified, next question.

Many people (some with forum accounts on the escapist apparently) are living antiquated lives that are not keeping up with technology and reality.

There is no strong evidence to show that piracy is a loss, I would be just as legit to say "Piracy is another form of marketing and thusly leads to X% of those marketed to purchase and X% to not, just like any commercial."

Except the difference is my theory is also backed by folks who make millions of dollars (valve spokespeople and notch to name a few).

BUT I could see how I'd be upset if I worked to get something and someone else got it for free, it wouldn't make me act like an entitled child and demonize it, but I can at least understand the mindset on a mechanical level.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

But you are if you have the good luck to be born into a situation that allows you to get whatever it is you want? Pot, meet the kettle.

Thanks. Took the words right out of my mouth.

What a well thought-out, informative and may I say insightful response.

Also, You.... you guys realize he's never gonna stop, right? Not till the Mods lock this Thread?

Actually, he already gave up; it got to a point where he couldn't argue any further without giving up what little semblance of following the rules he had. Of course, the blatant attempts to get a rise out of me in three of his first four posts in this thread have gone unpunished, despite quite a few clicks of the report button; I was kind of hoping a mod would see that while he was still in the thread. Come to think of it, they may have; not all warnings are made public. He could have left the thread because he got a warning.

Yeah, I went back and read..... all that, just now sorry. That was entertaining though. Fighting the good (anti-troll) fight

Wow, been a chaotic coupl'a days on here hasn't it? First the 50 Osama Flame-threads, then the 10 Jimquistion Flame-threads (one of which were mine, admittedly), now this one....silver lining: The site won some awards?

Incidentally, what are your thoughts on that post of mine, If you'd indulge me?

 

[fenrizz]

My favorite shows aren't shown on TV in Norway, and if they are it is with an hefty delay (6-12 months).

Unfortunatly there is only one way around this.
I know there are legal sites and such where these series are available, but some genious decided that only Amricans can access them.

So what's a man to do?

The box DVD set won't come out anytime soon, there are no legal alternatives and there is a 6-12 month delay.

This problem should be solvable, and I am more than willing to pay for a kind of subscription service.
But no such luck.

So I am really left with only one alternative.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

But you are if you have the good luck to be born into a situation that allows you to get whatever it is you want? Pot, meet the kettle.

Thanks. Took the words right out of my mouth.

What a well thought-out, informative and may I say insightful response.

Also, You.... you guys realize he's never gonna stop, right? Not till the Mods lock this Thread?

Actually, he already gave up; it got to a point where he couldn't argue any further without giving up what little semblance of following the rules he had. Of course, the blatant attempts to get a rise out of me in three of his first four posts in this thread have gone unpunished, despite quite a few clicks of the report button; I was kind of hoping a mod would see that while he was still in the thread. Come to think of it, they may have; not all warnings are made public. He could have left the thread because he got a warning.

Yeah, I went back and read..... all that, just now sorry. That was entertaining though. Fighting the good (anti-troll) fight

Wow, been a chaotic coupl'a days on here hasn't it? First the 50 Osama Flame-threads, then the 10 Jimquistion Flame-threads (one of which were mine, admittedly), now this one....silver lining: The site won some awards?

Incidentally, what are your thoughts on that post of mine, If you'd indulge me?

No kidding about it being chaotic; people always talk about March Madness being crazy, but the last couple of weeks of April were much worse. As for my thoughts on your post, could you give me a link? I'm not sure what you're referring to. If it's about the Jimquisition thread, I don't have an opinion, because I haven't watched the show yet. I'm one of those weird people who comes to the site for the articles, the comics, and the forums, mostly leaving the videos alone.

 

[gamer_parent]

hasn't this been covered like a million times? barring the person living in a place that has no legal access to the materials in the first place, piracy is wrong. Two common situations for this:

1. you live somewhere where you can't buy the game legally. i.e. I've been living in Jakarta for the past 3 years, I have yet to see a single legit copy of computer game software being sold here. I still don't pirate, but I can understand the desire to.

2. the company that owns the IP you want no longer exists. i.e. say you want to play some old Apogee platformers. The company no longer exists, and you will never be able to buy another copy. In that case, go nuts. Most of my gaming now a days comes from games that are easily older than half of the Escapist population.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Yeah, I went back and read..... all that, just now sorry. That was entertaining though. Fighting the good (anti-troll) fight

Wow, been a chaotic coupl'a days on here hasn't it? First the 50 Osama Flame-threads, then the 10 Jimquistion Flame-threads (one of which were mine, admittedly), now this one....silver lining: The site won some awards?

Incidentally, what are your thoughts on that post of mine, If you'd indulge me?

No kidding about it being chaotic; people always talk about March Madness being crazy, but the last couple of weeks of April were much worse. As for my thoughts on your post, could you give me a link? I'm not sure what you're referring to. If it's about the Jimquisition thread, I don't have an opinion, because I haven't watched the show yet. I'm one of those weird people who comes to the site for the articles, the comics, and the forums, mostly leaving the videos alone.

No, I mean the post I left earlier in this thread? The ambiguous hypothetical about kids in Poor nations?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Yeah, I went back and read..... all that, just now sorry. That was entertaining though. Fighting the good (anti-troll) fight

Wow, been a chaotic coupl'a days on here hasn't it? First the 50 Osama Flame-threads, then the 10 Jimquistion Flame-threads (one of which were mine, admittedly), now this one....silver lining: The site won some awards?

Incidentally, what are your thoughts on that post of mine, If you'd indulge me?

No kidding about it being chaotic; people always talk about March Madness being crazy, but the last couple of weeks of April were much worse. As for my thoughts on your post, could you give me a link? I'm not sure what you're referring to. If it's about the Jimquisition thread, I don't have an opinion, because I haven't watched the show yet. I'm one of those weird people who comes to the site for the articles, the comics, and the forums, mostly leaving the videos alone.

No, I mean the post I left earlier in this thread? The ambiguous hypothetical about kids in Poor nations?

Oh wow, I missed the fact that you posted it so far back. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with that. In general, I think that people who honestly can't afford to buy a game, movie, CD, or what have you, hurt nothing by pirating it, and may actually help the copyright owner through positive word of mouth. But then I think piracy has been blown out of proportion as a whole; if anything, it makes more sense that DRM and all the other anti-piracy measures are backdoor ways to kill the used market, which is borne out in the fact that the used market for PC games has been killed on all but the smallest scale, and also by the fact that publishers have recently been trying to demonize used sales.

Edit: Also, looking deeper into the hypothetical, if a product isn't available legally at all, and you can make a free copy without taking one from someone else, what reason is there not to? Even with the Escapist's notorious anti-piracy stance, there's official word from one of the contributors to go nuts with the piracy of games he's worked on if they actually aren't available in your country.

 

[Phishfood]

My favorite shows aren't shown on TV in Norway, and if they are it is with an hefty delay (6-12 months).

Unfortunatly there is only one way around this.
I know there are legal sites and such where these series are available, but some genious decided that only Amricans can access them.

So what's a man to do?

The box DVD set won't come out anytime soon, there are no legal alternatives and there is a 6-12 month delay.

This problem should be solvable, and I am more than willing to pay for a kind of subscription service.
But no such luck.

So I am really left with only one alternative.

Only way i can justify it is if there is literally no other way for me to obtain it. For instance i would love to watch Game of Thrones, but it wont be on here for monthes and monthes. I already pay for the channel it will be on and i will definately buy the Bluray so i see no problem with downloading it for early access. No one loses out technically

Unless there is a way to get HBO in the UK that im unaware of?

And here we have one of the HUGE grey areas, to my mind at least.

Well, ok its not so much a grey area - its still piracy. HOWEVER the way to fix this is not to punish the pirates, but do a proper global release. Tada, the pirates in this category go away.

As for the money type arguments I'm going to call on doctor who. The DVD box set started its life at £70. £70 for 12 episodes. Well, they can take that price and [REDACTED]. On the one hand, that doesn't entitle you to have it for free but media is a very strange situation. Take choosing a car - there are many many models out there, you can choose on price as you see fit. I only have one option for a given DVD. Within certain parameters any car will serve the same purpose - it has 4 wheels and takes me from my house to work etc. However when I want a DVD I want a specific DVD which gives me no real room to shop on price.

To go off on another slight tangent:
All these grey areas where piracy is not a clear cut harm to the industry, I'm sure that many people would agree the law could be changed to make downloading certain things acceptable. HOWEVER the law has to suit EVERYONE. So, if we change the law so that I can download what I like on the guarantee that I pay later you then have a complex situation. What if I download something agreeing to pay later and then refuse? What if I download £2M worth of stuff and CAN'T pay? You have to balance the law serving its intent with matching the real world. Make the law too complicated and you make loopholes and people will be criminals from lack of understanding.

 

[Popido]

But if pirate pirates


*raptor*


Is he a consumer?

 

[xdiesp]

Games without demos: you check the pirate version, then you buy the real if you liked it.

Games that suck hard: like asking for a refunded ticket at the theatre.