Can Mass Effect 3 Have Real Characterization?

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Jan 12, 2012
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I was blown away by Dragon Age II; not the gameplay itself, which was rather ho-hum, but by the depth of the characters created, especially in the party. I would walk around Kirkwall with different combinations, listening to their chatter, which was not just focused on their main quest; they discussed city politics, ethics, the relationships that I had with them, that they had with each other and that other members of the party had with non-party NPCs (see: Varric and his brother). When we were on missions, they would weigh in with their opinions without prompting. And they MOVED. I did not have to go and visit each of them to find out about their backstory. They would go to my house to see me, to talk about important and not important things. They even visited each other: one of my favourite memories is visiting the tavern to find that the character I was courting (the virginal Merrill) was seeking relationship advice from the brass, sexually active Isabella.

I eagerly awaited Mass Effect 2, hoping for the same depth of writing that is so lacking in games. Sadly, Bioware disappointed me. Oh sure, the characters were great: the assassin haunted by his past, the monster bred for war, even the obligatory black guy had an interesting plot line.

But that was it: it was just a plot line. I would go visit them in their room, fly to the correct place in the galaxy, shoot some people, visit them again afterwards for the wrap-up, and them it was done. They never developed new problems, they never came to visit me in my cabin, they never even got involved with other characters (expect for 2 staged disputes). They existed only for A) being called out to the battlefield, where I cannot remember them making a single comment that illuminated a part of their character outside of their given story missions, and B) if I wanted to perform what felt like an interrogation, where I had to ask the right questions to get them to reveal part of their back story.

Now I am wondering if it is part of each games inherent structure. In Dragon Age, you spend a lot of time walking with your party, and the conversations exist as a way to pass the time. In Mass Effect, each character has a room on the ship where they can relax while you insta-travel from one shooting gallery to the next.

What I want to ask you is whether you think this can and will be changed in Mass Effect 3. Will the characters roam the ship, meeting in the mess hall, or interrupting you while you work? Or will they remain automatons, fighting soullessly in battle and remaining in their rooms to be dealt with like books, to be read or discarded at leisure?
 

TD_Knight

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I believe you can call up squad members to Shepard's room for a chat this time around. I'm not sure if this is something you can do all the time though, it may just be that a certain NPC gets a problem, emails you, and then you can invite them up for a talk.

As for whether the squad mates will interact which each other more than in the previous titles? Not really sure.

There was some banter between Garrus, Liara and Wrex in the beta gameplay, but we'll probably have to wait and see.
 

Yureina

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May 6, 2010
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I doubt it. I agree with you that DA2 had impressive character depth (like how they did back in Baldur's Gate II), but I don't see that coming to ME3. Aside from the obvious fact that the game seems to be pandering less to RPG fans and more to so-called "mainstream" gamers, ME3 is being set up as an intense action ride to try to save the universe. Somehow I doubt that Shepard's hardened team of mercenaries and badasses will care to engage in idle smalltalk, since things will never be calm or relaxed in any way.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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Nope, that would cut out time for huge explosions and crazy multiplayer. We don't want THAT.
I was bored by all that lame characterization anyway. I wanted more 'SPLOSIONS!
 

VladG

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They did the idle banter in ME2, they would send you messages when they wanted to talk to you, etc.

But ME2 was launched before DA2 (couple of months, but still), so you could say they are improving the formula. ME2 started it(for the sake of argument, some of that stuff was in ME1 too), DA2 refined it, hopefully ME3 will refine it further.

I personally refuse to pass any sort of judgement on ME3 until I play it for myself. Bioware deserves as much

I think it can have just as deep characterization as DA2, there are still idle moments walking around a friendly area (or at least there were in the other ME games, I doubt it's going to be 100% action now), the quests themselves present the opportunity for your allies to express their opinion.

Maybe the biggest reason why there could be less characterization in ME is because of the whole epic story as opposed to the much more personal story of DA2. The way you relate to characters was more important in DA2 so in turn they had to have more focus on those characters.
 

Zhukov

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I heard they were going to have some more interaction between squadmates. I haven't seen it for myself though apart from some entertaining pre-mission banter.

I agree that DA2 did a great job with having them chat, visit one another and generally establish a loose framework of character relationships. Varric and Anders were drinking buddies, everyone treats Merrill like a little sister, Avaline and Isabella initially hate one another but slowly develop a grudging respect and so on.

Good stuff. I'd certainly like to see some of it in ME3.
 

mParadox

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Dragon Age 2 had an impressive depth of characterization. However, Mass Effect 3 is a being touted as the epic -save-the-universe- game so there's that chance that characterization will suffer because of that.
 

endtherapture

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
I was blown away by Dragon Age II

I eagerly awaited Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 2 came out before Dragon Age 2 so what you witnessed was the characterisation getting stronger after Mass Effect 2. If the trend is continued it will be better in Mass Effect 3.
 

Zhukov

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endtherapture said:
Thunderous Cacophony said:
I was blown away by Dragon Age II

I eagerly awaited Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 2 came out before Dragon Age 2 so what you witnessed was the characterisation getting stronger after Mass Effect 2. If the trend is continued it will be better in Mass Effect 3.
Bear in mind that they were made by two different studios. Besides, given that DA2 sent a lot of people into frothing fits of rage, and Bioware know it, they may be less than willing to use any of its adaptions in ME3.

Hopefully they can recognise what worked and what didn't through the storm of criticism.
 

octafish

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They used to chat in elevators, but people prefer loading screens instead, more's the pity.
 
Jan 12, 2012
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Zhukov said:
Bear in mind that they were made by two different studios. Besides, given that DA2 sent a lot of people into frothing fits of rage, and Bioware know it, they may be less than willing to use any of its adaptions in ME3.

Hopefully they can recognise what worked and what didn't through the storm of criticism.
I really hope they do. Fortunately, there seems to be enough people out there who recognize the good parts of the game (that is to say, the story and characters), and are trying to draw attention to them:

http://www.your-critic.com/2012/01/age-of-dragons-part-ii-tragedie-of.html
http://vorpalbunnyranch.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/carvers-my-brother/
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/138283-dragon-age-ii-making-the-case-for-quality-games
 
Jan 18, 2012
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I remember the first Mass Effect having characters chat with one another, usually during the elevator rides/loading. One that stands out in my mind is when Wrex asks Liara whether she or Shepherd would win in a fight.
 

AD-Stu

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I'm pretty sure I remember reading comments from the developers to the effect that ME3 was deliberately going to include less squadmates so that they could spend more time on / go into greater depth with each one. Whether that ends up being the case we'll have to wait and see I guess...
 

Zen Toombs

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I personally love the characters both in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. There's more party interaction in Dragon Age, but I feel that each game has had better party interaction and characterization. But we'll see what happens. ^_^
 

Asita

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To a degree even ME1 had what you're referring to. As often as not, while riding an elevator, the characters would strike up a conversation, make jabs at each other, or express appreciation for one thing or another. This itself was also included as a minor environmental reaction dependent in both ME1 and ME2. In the former, the character would make a 'huh' sound or something similar, indicating that if you talked to them there they'd have something to say about the immediate location. In the latter, certain areas would have a visible box if the right member was in the party, interacting with it prompted a similar comment. Personally, though I was rather fond of an unprompted bit on the stairs in the Citadel when Tali and Garrus are part of the party.
 

Coldie

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kman123 said:
Well here I thought they were both made by the same studio. Huh.
There's at least 4 different BioWare teams now. The A-team is the one making Mass Effect 2 and 3. The B-team spawned Dragon Age 2. BioWare Austin (formerly known as Mythic) is the one making The Old Republic and consists of Mythic plus what's left of the SWGalaxies team. BioWare Victory (Victory Games), is the one making the new C&C strategy game thing.
 

Pontifex

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Coldie said:
kman123 said:
Well here I thought they were both made by the same studio. Huh.
There's at least 4 different BioWare teams now. The A-team is the one making Mass Effect 2 and 3. The B-team spawned Dragon Age 2. BioWare Austin (formerly known as Mythic) is the one making The Old Republic and consists of Mythic plus what's left of the SWGalaxies team. BioWare Victory (Victory Games), is the one making the new C&C strategy game thing.
The Dragon Age and (main) Mass Effect teams are at Edmonton; Austin is dealing with TOR, Victory with Generals 2, and Montreal is working on ME3's multiplayer. I think they also have a studio in San Francisco that is working on 2d Facebook games, but you never hear much out of them.
 

jamesbrown

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i think you guys are missing dragon age: orgins. in that game when there was almost any idle time walking around the npcs would talk to each other, quite a bit too. which vastly differed from ME2 where each charaters backstory was simple, basic; and truely only done because it gave you a reward, as in a ship upgrade. Also in DA:O I pursued a relationship because I waanted to; in ME2 it was for a achievement and a cutscene that caused controversy, it felt shallower and more boring as oposed to DA:O. Also if a publisher wants a reputation for quality games, it should have some baseline expectations for RPG's.
 

Sinclair Solutions

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I know this is going to sound strange, but I really just hope they don't include dialogue trees for these interactions. I haven't played Dragon Age up to the point to having multiple partners, but the I like the idea of idle conversations while you're just faffing about. It's like the conversations you had on horseback in RDR. I honestly think if they integrate the conversations more naturally into the game and less like a mandatory mini-game, I would actually start to care about the characters like I did in RDR.

This is just my views, however. I've always felt the Dialogue trees in Bioware games but the brakes on the fun. I love having a good story and developed characters, but I think there has to be a less mechanical way to get it across.