Can someone please explain to me how anarchy is supposed to work? Edited

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Totaltruth

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Unfortunately, this thread seems to have been significantly hijacked by uninformed mindless capitalist puppet consumers which I hate to see. Suggestion for all: read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell and compare it realistically to the world we live in today(remember this was written in 1949!) Please open your minds upto more than the trash the tv feeds you.

To the point on Anarchism, I will try to summarise collective ideas held by modern intelligent anarchists, not just punks that use it as an excuse to bring down the man. If you consider yourself a self-aware intelligent individual that recognises problem's with western society feel free to skip the next paragraph.

Heres an easier way to get into the mindset of where I'm coming from.
I believe the very odds of our existence in this universe are astounding and the human condition truly is something amazing. My basic morality, as with a lot of people's essentially comes down to the idea that every generation should try to better humanity. While today's modern society certainly has achieved amazing feats, it surely isn't without it's flaws, ie. mass consumerism, alienation, economic collapse, global warming etc. A lot of this stems from power mongers of politicians in what is now an expanding democratic capitalistic society that is seen as the highest possibility of freedom(see nationalistic yanks).

Capitalism is fundamentally flawed from the outset due to the individual being encouraged to exploit others for profit. Opposed to anarchism which in practise, each individual is metaphorically speaking a subjective point of view of an encompassing consciousness which is society.

Anarchists collectively can disagree massivley on ideals. For the purpose of this thread though, general thoughts held by revolutionary anarchists to change society share anarcho-syndicalism ideas. These involve collective ownership and everything run by the workers without class division or centralised authority. Practically speaking, this leads to a society of efficiency and only necessary consumption. If a certain product is needed, workers will be in charge and only manufacture this product when it is needed. When it is no longer needed that business will be dissolved. As soon as a power structure is no longer needed it is dissolved aswell. This is opposed to capitalism where shareholders stakes in corporations lead to the corporation just trying to survive rather than providing products we need. Which in turn leads to the mass unnecessary consumption we see today. Anarchism provides a solution to environmental issues and brings people togehter into a productive fulfilling society as it is in the collective people's best interest rather than just the individual.

From here I highly recommend Colin Ward's "Anarchism: A Very Short Introduction". Which expands a lot on these ideas and has plenty of excellent sources on specific anarchism ideologies.

Ask yourself these questions realistically.
Does anarchy not logically lead on from libertarianism? Therefore shouldn't we seek to live this lifestyle for true freedom and liberty?
 

Totaltruth

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BGH122 said:
All in all anarchism is usually regarded as high idealistic. The reality of the matter is that without the presence of a state the majority of public services would not be met. Doctors and other high skilled, high demand workers would be able to set extortionate contracts which others would have no choice but to accept and, without a government to prevent such an occurrence, society would soon descend into an oligarchy (a system where the very few, in this case those with the essential skills, rule over the many) or a brutal libertarian meritocracy (entirely individualistic state in which the best succeed and the rest fail). Although perhaps I just have too negative a view of human nature.
In regards to anarchistic contracts, you've drawn fairly grand conclusions from doctors coercing others to accept contracts. First and foremost, anarchism denies coercing others as in your example and people have the right to refuse this, your doctor is holding his belief of exploiting others for his benefit. Anarchism encourages the doctor to help everyone he can. Could you also provide me with a logical basis that the majority of public services would not be met? Anarchism promotes equality and serving the public as it's main maxim whereas capitalism, the public health system is a by product. Have a look at the state of the US public health care system by the way:p.

To renew your faith in Humans being inherently goodif you believe in Darwinian theory read some of Richard Dawkins' work(which I'm sure you'd just forgotten about studying political philosophy:p)
 

Pimppeter2

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Totaltruth said:
Um, the majority of the Escapist has read 1984, its a very popular book around here. The Escapist is one of the most intelligent forums out there so please don't insult us.

I highly doubt Anarchy can work in our Society. Sure, I believe it could have worked if that was the form of government created first instead of monarchies and the such. It really is a dog eat dog world, one were Anarchism cannot work due to greed and morals. The thing is for anarchism to work, I think you would need everyone to have a same set of moral guidelines, if not, then whats stopping me from only looking for personal gain?
 

similar.squirrel

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Cause some disorder and hope that people will cooperate in order to sort it out and that they'll realise that cooperation works. It's a lovely theory, but since humans are asswipes, it won't work.
 

Simon Hadow

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Precisley, it doesn't work, and that's how it works... wait... I mean... ummm... you know what, I'm gonna leave this to everyone else while I go cry and tell myself I'm worthless...
 

SmartIdiot

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Space Spoons said:
How anarchy is supposed to work?... As I understand it, isn't that question a little like asking how a colander is supposed to hold water?
A million times this.
 

CoziestPigeon

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I'm not sure how anarchy is actually supposed to work, but I do know how all the teenage skinheads who wear anarchy badges and want to overthrow the government think it works.

The teenage punks all think anarchy is just a system in which everyone is equal and there are no laws to be enforced by anyone, they think with anarchy they can get away with whatever they want. The funny thing is, if there WAS that sort of anarchy, these kids don't realize they would be murdered for being such annoying pricks by someone bigger than them, just because they can.
 

Totaltruth

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I'm sorry for any offense, it just appeared to me a lot of people were uninformed and simply associate anarchism with black flag. I mearly used 1984 as a reference to associate that book with the discontent of today's society assuming people have read it which people can easily connect to. My writing tone obviously didn't convey that!

pimppeter2 said:
The thing is for anarchism to work, I think you would need everyone to have a same set of moral guidelines, if not, then whats stopping me from only looking for personal gain?
I know you're doggedly questioning it which is only natural. But think more about the concept of what I wrote. How are you going to get the most personal gain? By working with people. It is in your best interests to help others who help you. The beauty of co-operation:). What'd they teach you in primary school:p?
But in all seriousness, is human nature to exploit and always put yourself number one? Are humans not deeply social beings?
 

Pimppeter2

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Totaltruth said:
I'm sorry for any offense, it just appeared to me a lot of people were uninformed and simply associate anarchism with black flag. I mearly used 1984 as a reference to associate that book with the discontent of today's society assuming people have read it which people can easily connect to. My writing tone obviously didn't convey that!
Ohh well that's what it came off as to me, but still, I know what you mean. Lots of people here do mix the terms, in a lot of ways most people think of anarchy as the chaotic term where lawless society turns to chaos


Totaltruth said:
pimppeter2 said:
The thing is for anarchism to work, I think you would need everyone to have a same set of moral guidelines, if not, then whats stopping me from only looking for personal gain?
I know you're doggedly questioning it which is only natural. But think more about the concept of what I wrote. How are you going to get the most personal gain? By working with people. It is in your best interests to help others who help you. The beauty of co-operation:). What'd they teach you in primary school:p?
But in all seriousness, is human nature to exploit and always put yourself number one? Are humans not deeply social beings?
I would believe that it is human nature to exploit one another, let me give you this situation

In grammar school (primary, first, whatever it is in other countries), we are constantly told to be friends with everyone and to think for everyone and such. Do kids pay attention to that? No! We still have people who bully people to make themselves cooler and such. I was a "bully" is grammar school and the reason you made fun of weird kids was to increase your social status and such. I think it is Human nature to exploit one another, mainly for the upper to exploit the lower. When Europe was first colonizing Africa it's not like they didn't know Africans were humans, they just chose to exploit their fellow race because it benefited them. A slave trade benefited Europe more than an actual ali.

I don't think Anarchism could form in Society today. Who knows, if it had been bigger in the past, or what will happen in the future.
 

Totaltruth

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So you're observing anarchism as a way of life that isn't a possibility of occurring currently. Theres a large degree of anarchism that appeals to rationality. Surely the ultimate ideals of anarchism are a whole lot more admirable and noble than capitalism? Would you support them? Don't you feel morally obliged to support that rather than just accept today for what it is?


Beyond that you're simply arguing against my statement that humans aren't intrinsically good. Just observing conditioned behaviour.
Your question do kids pay attention to that?
If you take it to that extreme case then, do you really believe that artificial laws are the only things stopping you from killing people to exploit them? There's no underlying moral system(that's inherent whether through sociobiology or whatever you believe)?
Though there's no denying that's a tough question for everyone to face.
 

Russian_Assassin

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Anarchy is not the best thing, if you ask me. If we are to have good lives, we have to oblige some rules. Killing and looting may sound like fun, but unlike video games, be it fallout 3 or GTA, you can't reload a save, so everything will be screwed. It also has unfortunate side effects, like the riots in Greece (seriously, I couldn't fucking breathe from all the tear gases!). The only "image" of anarchists I have are "The anonymous twat in a hood to obscure his face, throwing molotovs and breaking shops".
 

Zombie_Fish

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I works in a similar way to communism. All people are equal basically. However, like communism this doesn't work in practice as humans always want more than each other and therefore decend into savagery to get more.

In theory the two work as people are being treated equally, but human selfishness stops them from working when put into practice.
 

Mackinator

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pimppeter2 said:
I would believe that it is human nature to exploit one another, let me give you this situation

In grammar school (primary, first, whatever it is in other countries), we are constantly told to be friends with everyone and to think for everyone and such. Do kids pay attention to that? No! We still have people who bully people to make themselves cooler and such. I was a "bully" is grammar school and the reason you made fun of weird kids was to increase your social status and such. I think it is Human nature to exploit one another, mainly for the upper to exploit the lower.
You are just looking for an excuse for being a bully. Bullies are bad. Full Stop.[sub]joking[/sub]

More seriously, you are making a good point.
 

Pimppeter2

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Russian_Assassin said:
Anarchy is not the best thing, if you ask me. If we are to have good lives, we have to oblige some rules. Killing and looting may sound like fun, but unlike video games, be it fallout 3 or GTA, you can't reload a save, so everything will be screwed. It also has unfortunate side effects, like the riots in Greece (seriously, I couldn't fucking breathe from all the tear gases!). The only "image" of anarchists I have are "The anonymous twat in a hood to obscure his face, throwing molotovs and breaking shops".
The anarchists in Greece aren't real ones, just a bunch of ungrateful stupid teenagers, with the help of retarded media.
 

Pimppeter2

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Totaltruth said:
Laws, religion, acceptance, and morals are whats stopping people from only doing what interests them

But not everyone shares the same laws and religion

And surely there are those who don't care about acceptance and have very different morals
 

Russian_Assassin

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pimppeter2 said:
The anarchists in Greece aren't real ones, just a bunch of ungrateful stupid teenagers, with the help of retarded media.
I agree with you about the ungrateful teens thing and no I am not Greek, but Russian. I do live in Greece though and love every bit* of this sunny country ^^

*Except those idiots in the parliament :mad: