Can we have a serious discussion about qualms with moderation?

sky14kemea

Deus Ex-Mod
Jun 26, 2008
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Twenty Ninjas said:
sky14kemea said:
Which site were you a moderator on? Just out of curiosity.
An obscure forum for a certain MMO that I'm not comfortable talking about. We did have a few thousand users and a few hundred daily posters.

If you're concerned about other reports, just delete the offending post(s) and leave a message in the thread. Any mods who get directed to where it was can conclude someone else has already taken care of it. I assume deleted messages go into a recycle bin of sorts and don't actually disappear off the forum. And if they do, that can probably be fixed easily by a site admin.
I actually have no idea where posts go when they're deleted. o.o

I know I say this a lot, but that's a tech issue. They don't let us Mods do anything tech related since we're only volunteers. (Imagine if one of us went rogue with that kind of power... D: )
 

Shadowstar38

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Jul 20, 2011
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Why does it always look like Spider-bro is the only mod? Are the rest of them hiding? And what's with the spider obsession in the first place? Why is his avatar a woman?
 

Andy Shandy

Fucked if I know
Jun 7, 2010
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Yeah, if the discussion in question had just stayed at "interesting" the thread would've been fine.

Instead it ventured into rather disturbing territory at times and that's why it got locked (and rightly so, in my opinion).
 

sky14kemea

Deus Ex-Mod
Jun 26, 2008
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Shadowstar38 said:
Why does it always look like Spider-bro is the only mod? Are the rest of them hiding? And what's with the spider obsession in the first place? Why is his avatar a woman?
Because I have the most free time, so I always swing in first. *fwip fwip*

Nah, it's because my territory is Off Topic. I always hang out here, I can go poke the others if you like though. =P

Who doesn't love spiderman? And my avatar is a woman because I am also a woman. I do like the name "Spider-bro", though.
 

Phrozenflame500

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Dec 26, 2012
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In my opinion, once you start openly insulting people you need to get smacked with the banhammer. Or atleast the really-long-suspension hammer. Personal punishment should always be a better option then a locked thread. I do get that this tends to cause a lot of work for the mods though.

That being said, that thread was sort of a flame war ready to happen. It got into R&P territory REALLY fast.
 

Godhead

Dib dib dib, dob dob dob.
May 25, 2009
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The moderation here is fine. Hell, when you go down to post there is a link that takes you to the posting guidelines so you can read it at your leisure before you make a post and aren't quite sure about it so you can be certain you're not breaking the CoC. Also why do these threads only ever pop up when a personality gets banned or some specific threads get locked?
 

The_Great_Galendo

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Sep 14, 2012
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My main issue with the moderation is mostly technical, but also partly due to occasional over-moderation. I click on most of the "User received a warning for this post" links just to get an idea of what is and is not acceptable on these forums. Most of the time I can tell just by reading the post what rule was violated, but every once in a while there are posts that just don't seem worth a warning (or even occasionally a ban) to me: they aren't low-content, they aren't particularly insulting, they don't mention a certain ad-blocking program (also, as an aside, I think this particular restriction is rather idiotic and should be removed. I get that the Escapist doesn't want people blocking its ads -- no website does -- but there are better ways to address the issue than forcefully trying to keep some portion of its users in ignorance), they don't advocate piracy, etc., etc. Any yet they still received a warning, and I have no idea why.

Long story short, I think it would be really nice if, rather than saying "User received a warning for this post", it said something like "User received a warning for this post for low content" or something like that. Just so other people know what mistakes to avoid.
 

tippy2k2

Beloved Tyrant
Legacy
Mar 15, 2008
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The_Great_Galendo said:
My main issue with the moderation is mostly technical, but also partly due to occasional over-moderation. I click on most of the "User received a warning for this post" links just to get an idea of what is and is not acceptable on these forums. Most of the time I can tell just by reading the post what rule was violated, but every once in a while there are posts that just don't seem worth a warning (or even occasionally a ban) to me: they aren't low-content, they aren't particularly insulting, they don't mention a certain ad-blocking program (also, as an aside, I think this particular restriction is rather idiotic and should be removed. I get that the Escapist doesn't want people blocking its ads -- no website does -- but there are better ways to address the issue than forcefully trying to keep some portion of its users in ignorance), they don't advocate piracy, etc., etc. Any yet they still received a warning, and I have no idea why.

Long story short, I think it would be really nice if, rather than saying "User received a warning for this post", it said something like "User received a warning for this post for low content" or something like that. Just so other people know what mistakes to avoid.
Some of them used to do that but it adds work to their process and there are only so many of them...

For a good rule of thumb, if they were banned and you see absolutely no reason why, 9 times out of 10 they are a ban-jumper (someone who was banned and the message didn't register in their brain so they created a new account).
 

Padwolf

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Sep 2, 2010
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I don't have a problem at all with the moderators here. The guidelines and everything are there in the threads, you can avoid mistakes fairly easily. The mods do a great job! As for the thread in question, our friendly Spidermod has already said my point, it was a flame war waiting to happen.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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sky14kemea said:
I actually have no idea where posts go when they're deleted. o.o
In the basement. You're welcome :)

sky14kemea said:
That'd be a lot of complicated coding that even the Tech Team would have a hard time with. =P I like the idea though.
It's going to also complicate your lives as well - you're the ones who would need to decide which user "doesn't belong" to which threads. Also, you will need to mark the threads as they pop up, as there isn't a way to automatically classify them. And then, you'll need to brace for the torrent of complains. It's just not worth it.

The_Great_Galendo said:
Long story short, I think it would be really nice if, rather than saying "User received a warning for this post", it said something like "User received a warning for this post for low content" or something like that. Just so other people know what mistakes to avoid.
I agree, it's nice if they left a reason, as sometimes it's not apparent. But usually a "strange" warning/ban is one of these

a) it's a spambot. The user will have very short posting history and going through the posts will reveal them to be mostly similar or in fact the same. Even if you don't, the post they will be suspended for would most likely be short and not on topic, unless it copy/pastes what somebody else said.

b) it's a banjumper. Usually, very small postcount but occasionally some manage to rack up quite a few. They would mostly get outright banned with no link for "user was banned for this post" but may be banned for their last post, even if it's not itself violating rules.

c) multiaccounters. Now, technically, multiaccounting is not a bannable offence, however, it is an offence when more accounts are used to "extend" the health bar. If one has a total of 8 infractions across the accounts (maybe sometimes less, as it is a violation), then they can get insta permabanned with all.

d) "death of a thousand cuts" - multiple smaller infractions that don't deserve a warning on their own, but might eventually lead to a general warning. And since this has to be tied to a post, it may appear that the post was moderated too harshly. For example, if somebody is aggressive in a thread but not outright insulting, they may get a warning after repeated aggressive posts, even if none really insult anybody.
 

Hero of Lime

Staaay Fresh!
Jun 3, 2013
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Considering I have a clean record, which I intend to keep, out of the 260 something posts I haven't gotten a warning or anything, it can't be too hard not to incur mod wrath. I don't have a problem with slightly overbearing mods because it keeps the jerks of the internet world at bay. Even though I have seen people get banned who I liked, the forum show must go on!

It was probably for the best that the unpopular opinions thread was closed, my post was pretty inoffensive, but I saw crazy posts that I won't soon forget, even if I wanted to.
 

A Weakgeek

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Feb 3, 2011
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Its not really up to the users how the forum is kept.

Just like how I dislike the strict rules on "Flaming" since all it does is make people act obcenely passive agressive. Atleast on 4chan if a guy wants to tell me to "Go fuck yourself" they'll write just that, and it will take me 5 seconds to ignore them. Here I'll read through a smarmy 5 paragraph post just to discover the same thing.

But yeah, thats what this particular community has decided for itself and sure, it looks good on the outside. I just find it personally tedius.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Hero of Lime said:
Considering I have a clean record, which I intend to keep, out of the 260 something posts I haven't gotten a warning or anything, it can't be too hard not to incur mod wrath. I don't have a problem with slightly overbearing mods because it keeps the jerks of the internet world at bay. Even though I have seen people get banned who I liked, the forum show must go on!

It was probably for the best that the unpopular opinions thread was closed, my post was pretty inoffensive, but I saw crazy posts that I won't soon forget, even if I wanted to.
I've managed this long with a total of two warnings. It's probably possible to go five years and however many posts I have without a single warning, but it's definitely possible to have a clean bill of health after a long time.

It really can't be too hard to avoid mod wrath.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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Sep 26, 2009
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Well, I have moderation qualms with the Sticky'd threads.

Specifically the Portal 2 Custom Map thread, why is that still a Sticky'd thread if it's hardly used?

Also, can someone tell me the protocol a thread has to go through before it becomes Sticky'd? Threads like User Groups Help & Index I can totally understand being Sticky'd (but unfrequented). But then there are commonly used threads like the thread about describing games you can't remember the title of or Forum Badge Gallery that are pretty helpful but aren't Sticky'd. (But the Forum Badge Gallery one might've been Sticky'd in the past, I honestly can't remember.)
 

Dangit2019

New member
Aug 8, 2011
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IceForce said:
What's up with all the threads [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.821323-I-like-the-rules-here] complaining [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.821692-So-this-is-whats-wrong-with-this-community] about moderation recently? Is it really that much of a problem here?

It sure seems to get a lot of attention, which I find rather odd since I've personally never had any problems with it.
To be fair, those guys were butthurt for getting mod wrath over things that were obviously against forum policy. I don't want to just *****, I want input from the community users to be heard.
 

NewClassic_v1legacy

Bringer of Words
Jul 30, 2008
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Dangit2019 said:
My problem personally is that by banning these threads, you really limit the number of topics that can be posted in fear of having to actively monitor them and keep the replies within the site rules.
One of the limitations of any forum is the population that contributes. Forum rules mean nothing to an empty forum, and conversely, any forum with an overly restrictive ruleset will find its users banned out or having abandoned ship. As such, any forum and its rules is dependent entirely on its population.

That means that in cases like that thread, wherein flames and argument become too frequent and discourse too minimal, it means the thread's toxicity level outweighs its discussion value. Which, however interesting the content may be, if it devolves into argument then the thread itself is already lost. Unfortunately, any thread is only as viable as the people posting in it.

I've actually locked a fair number of forum threads I've wanted to participate in. It sucks, but it's also kinda the point of rules to begin with.

Shadowstar38 said:
Why does it always look like Spider-bro is the only mod? Are the rest of them hiding? And what's with the spider obsession in the first place? Why is his avatar a woman?
Sky's a lady. And the rest of us are about. I personally tend to do most of my business in the Escapist IRC [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/chat], so you'll rarely find that channel without me in it. I'm on the forums from time to time, though.

Spidermod is superhuman in her speed though. I almost never see things she hasn't seen, and responded to, already.

The_Great_Galendo said:
I think it would be really nice if, rather than saying "User received a warning for this post", it said something like "User received a warning for this post for low content" or something like that. Just so other people know what mistakes to avoid.
There was a lot of discussion about this several months back, in several moderation threads, about including messages with warnings when things are unclear. Most mods will edit in comments about banjumpers or requested temporary bans. Several others speak for themselves, as you've mentioned, but a lot of it comes down to context or language as well.

Personally, get questions and messages from time to time asking for clarifications on warnings or instances of mod wrath. I don't really like to point fingers or cite specifics, but I'll never turn down the option to look over the post personally and cite what issues I see with it. Whether or not I'm the mod who wrathed, or what the reason was I can't say, but I'm more than happy to talk about how the rules can or cannot be applied to certain posts.

More than once, I've even recommended the poster appeals. It's never a bad idea to ask if you're confused. My inbox is always open.

Zachary Amaranth said:
I've managed this long with a total of two warnings. It's probably possible to go five years and however many posts I have without a single warning, but it's definitely possible to have a clean bill of health after a long time.

It really can't be too hard to avoid mod wrath.
It's often about tone and context, as well. Being inflammatory is so common in internet language, it's almost impossible to go through any thread without seeing something that could offend someone. To me, the difference is largely in intent. If people mean to be inflammatory, there's often very little wiggle room in the rules to not break something, somewhere. Even if it's just the "Don't Be a Jerk" subheading.

TheYellowCellPhone said:
Well, I have moderation qualms with the Sticky'd threads.
Might be a good question to pose to [user]Nasrin[/user] or the Mod Team group. Although you can always supplement threads by bookmarking threads you find individually useful.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Twenty Ninjas said:
But anyway, the initial suggestion was to stop stifling discussion by locking threads that still have opinions going just because a few people said something the mods don't like about piracy or some other controversial subject.
As it was pointed out, the "unpopular opinions" threads don't go down well. The last two didn't burst into flames, they just turnd into a giant pyre. Each. I was honestly surprised it took this many pages for the last one to get going, however, boy, that just means there is more kindling for later.