Can We Just Use Friendzone to Describe a Situation, Please?

[Lonewolfm16]

I don't see why people have to assume that guys who start out being friendly to girls are pigs because they also want to sleep with them. I mean, if they were players who just wanted to bang and run, then wouldn't they do that? Is it so hard to believe a guy can actually care about a girl who just isn't interested in him? Or he presents himself in totally the wrong way because he's awkward as hell? Why does everybody assume it's some kind of excuse? It's called Friendzone because they aren't going to see you as anything more (or different) then a friend. it DOES actually happen!

I always thought the idea of a friendzone was pretty logical. Take a person who you like and think is generally great (in other words a really good friend) who is also really attractive, then spend lots of time together, and it makes sense for romance to develop. And, of course, not everyone is attracted to you, so odds are that at some point you will find rejection, which is usually genuinely awful.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

I don't see why people have to assume that guys who start out being friendly to girls are pigs because they also want to sleep with them. I mean, if they were players who just wanted to bang and run, then wouldn't they do that? Is it so hard to believe a guy can actually care about a girl who just isn't interested in him? Or he presents himself in totally the wrong way because he's awkward as hell? Why does everybody assume it's some kind of excuse? It's called Friendzone because they aren't going to see you as anything more (or different) then a friend. it DOES actually happen!

I think you're misunderstanding the source of hostility towards the term, or the vaunted "nice guy" label.

FINE AND GOOD: Courting someone because you fancy them romantically.
FINE AND GOOD: Feeling sad because your affections were unrequited.

NOT FINE AND GOOD: Assuming that you were rejected because you were "too nice", or that not being interested in you romantically indicates a character failure on the part of the person rejecting you.
NOT FINE AND GOOD: Assuming that "kindness" is a currency you directly exchange for sexual attention, and implying...directly or indirectly...that not being sexually rewarded for kindness is a moral crime.

Like I say, I don't really have an issue with the term "friend zone", but it got rather co-opted over the years by a lot of angry young misogynists who felt female sexual attention was their due for existing, and their accumulated frustration towards the opposite sex turned the status of "friend" into a loathsome penalty. There's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling pain or rejection as a consequence of unrequited love, the term "friend zone" just has a lot of ugly baggage now. Which is a shame, because it can still be fairly amusing when it's not being used in a sullen or petulant fashion. I got a good laugh out of Ser Jorah of House Friendzone, for example.

I think the whole "nice guys" idea was originally more along the lines of "a person thinks I am nice, wants to spend time with me, and is generally good friends, but despite that doesn't have any romantic feelings for me... what did I do wrong?" and was radicalized by aforementioned misogynists.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

The problem with the word friendzone or rather the problems, are the implications that go with it. I say problems, because those implications vary massively depending on your particular view of the issue/non-issue as the case may be.
To some, using the term friendzone implies that the user is a douchebag who feels entitled to sex after being nice for x amount of time.
To others, using the term implies that you're a moron because "the friendzone isn't a real thing".
There are also the people that feel the implication is that the 'friendzoner' is in the wrong.

And then there's the way people feel about the various implications, either agreeing, disagreeing or not giving a shit, and how important they feel it is that they should champion their cause in the battle of the friendzone.

The friendzone and particularly the drama surrounding it are one of the many reasons why I hate the internet.

 

[In Search of Username]

Yeah people just associate misogyny with the term by now so that the moment you use it in an inoffensive way everyone assumes you hate women or something. One of those things where people just make assumptions based on the word's connotations.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Sure, I can use friendzone to describe a situation.

Lemme give it whirl...

"Friendzone", a place that does not exist with the main character of Persona 4. (also known as Yu Narukami)

Did I do it right?

 

[Vegosiux]

I think the whole "nice guys" idea was originally more along the lines of "a person thinks I am nice, wants to spend time with me, and is generally good friends, but despite that doesn't have any romantic feelings for me... what did I do wrong?"

I'd be inclined to agree. And just to stress the point, exactly - "What did I do wrong?" Not exactly blaming the other party.

Now, some people do give in and do that, yes, but that's again a case of post hoc rationalization, and one would do well to roll their eyes furiously at it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I think the whole "nice guys" idea was originally more along the lines of "a person thinks I am nice, wants to spend time with me, and is generally good friends, but despite that doesn't have any romantic feelings for me... what did I do wrong?" and was radicalized by aforementioned misogynists.

I think there's also a self-awareness breakdown in which people mistake their own courtship behavior for evidence of exemplary moral character. If you're running yourself ragged doing favors for and doting on a woman in the hopes of winning her sexual affections, you are working off an almost entirely selfish motivation. It's no more noble or evidence of "niceness" than this:


Generally speaking, it's a good idea to view with suspicion anyone who gives themselves the label of "nice". As the protagonists of our own life stories, we are seldom without extraordinary bias when it comes to our own virtues.

 

[Stephen St.]

I don't condemn people who are dealing with unrequited love. I do, however, condemn people who use the term "friendzone" because it's a term that inherently blames the object of their "affection" (and I use that term very loosely) for refusing to date them.

If they really just accepted that what they were experiencing is unrequited love then they would call it unrequited love. Or just say "she doesn't like me back." "I've been friendzoned" or "I'm in the friendzone" is an attempt to make it sound like some kind of injustice has been carried out.

Uh, I think you are reading way too much into the word. I am not from an english-speaking country, but I have never understood friendzone to mean what you are saying nor do I know of the word being used in such a context. Friendzone means, and has always meant, another person mentally labelling you as a "friend", making it very hard to establish any kind of romantic or intimate relationship with that person.

Sure, the word is used by frutrated teenagers with resulting mysogonist tendencies, but that has nothing to do with the word or any associated "baggage", and everything to do with frustrated teenagers often being mysogonistic, especially since the internet together with a lot of popular culture and advertising is sending the message that having as much sex as possible is the hallmark of a successfull life.

 

[Hagi]

What? No! You can't use the word like that. That's not cool at all.

It's one of those very few amazing words that describe themselves. Like short. Which is a short word. That's cool right?

But it gets even better! Lo and behold!

The word 'friendzone' describes a rather awkward situation involving a lot of mixed feelings, emotions and blame tossed around for both good and bad reasons. The word 'friendzone' itself is rather awkward and involves a lot of mixed feelings, emotions and blame tossed around for both good and bad reasons.

How cool is that?

So no, you can't change it. It's going to stay exactly like it is because it's a much cooler word that way. Don't make it boring.

 

[rasputin0009]

"Friendzone" was created with a negative connotation, so ya, it definitely comes with the negative baggage of the word.

My opinion is that if you're in the "friendzone", you're a sad, sad person. Seriously, what's wrong with having another friend? If you develop feelings for a friend, you can tell them, and if they reject you, then you move on. While staying their friend. Much easier to do than to cry about it.

Also, this is for the guys who need to wakeup and the girls who need the lulz: http://www.explosm.net/comics/3167/

 

[thiosk]

If I got bent out of shape every time the kids these days came up with a new slang term, I'd be in a bad way. For gods sake, "pants" now has meaning outside article of clothing.

These kind of words are great identifiers for attitude. The people who use the term friendzone are exactly the sort of people you expect to use it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Uh, I think you are reading way too much into the word. I am not from an english-speaking country, but I have never understood friendzone to mean what you are saying nor do I know of the word being used in such a context. Friendzone means, and has always meant, another person mentally labelling you as a "friend", making it very hard to establish any kind of romantic or intimate relationship with that person.

Sure, the word is used by frutrated teenagers with resulting mysogonist tendencies, but that has nothing to do with the word or any associated "baggage", and everything to do with frustrated teenagers often being mysogonistic, especially since the internet together with a lot of popular culture and advertising is sending the message that having as much sex as possible is the hallmark of a successfull life.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=friend%20zone

It hasn't "always meant" anything. As suasartes earlier stated, the term has only been in existence for a couple of decades, and like all slang has enjoyed a highly mutable definition. As you can see by the urban dictionary link, the most popularly endorsed definition of it is HIGHLY gendered and more than a little sulky.

People are conflating "friend zone" with "unrequited love".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unrequited%20love

They are not the same term, and while friend zone may have begun life sharing a definition with unrequited love, this is evidently no longer the case.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

"Friendzone" was created with a negative connotation, so ya, it definitely comes with the negative baggage of the word.

My opinion is that if you're in the "friendzone", you're a sad, sad person. Seriously, what's wrong with having another friend? If you develop feelings for a friend, you can tell them, and if they reject you, then you move on. While staying their friend. Much easier to do than to cry about it.

Also, this is for the guys who need to wakeup and the girls who need the lulz: http://www.explosm.net/comics/3167/

As previously mentioned, unrequited love really really sucks. And it can be very difficult to just "get over it" If emotions worked that way, no one would grieve for dead loved ones.

 

[Nowhere Man]

The vitriolic way this forum approaches the whole friend zone thing gives me great amusement and many chuckles. There is nothing wrong with feeling sad or bitter if you have been friend zoned. It's a human response and are we not all humans here? I'm really tired of the negative sexist connotations people are trying to attach to either the word or how someone takes the situation. IT IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT. If you stay bitter and angry about the situation then that's on you, but again the way I see it that's cool too because hey again you're human (Just don't be a dick about it).
I approach the friend zone as the opportunity to make a new friend. Sure it sucks at first but you get used to it and move on and hopefully keep that person as a friend. And if you can't and don't want to deal with it, well that's fine too. It's not easy in many cases and can also be awkward to try to be friends with someone that you painfully want in a romantic way. I've been in all these situations and I'm sure many of us here can relate as well.

It's like whats been said above. The term friend zone was coined to make a painful situation easier to bear. It's a term created to poke fun at a situation that can really be heart breaking in many cases. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with the word friend zone, or being friend zoned or with anyone's reactions to being friend zoned (within reason). It's just the way life is.

Captcha: tight lipped.- Not really. I think I talk way too much.

 

[Vegosiux]

For gods sake, "pants" now has meaning outside article of clothing.

"Now"? As far as I know, "pants" has meant "crap" in the British parts for a while now. No, really, it's a long time ago I first heard it in that context (and I did have to ask the person what they just said), it doesn't strike me as something new.

Countries separated by a common language I suppose.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm really tired of the negative sexist connotations people are trying to attach to either the word or how someone takes the situation.

But that's the term. The term developed as an expression of those "negative sexist connotations". Don't blame the forum. Blame language. That's how the term evolved.

It's like whats been said above. The term friend zone was coined to make a painful situation easier to bear. It's a term created to poke fun at a situation that can really be heart breaking in many cases. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree that's where it started. It's ended up somewhere else. Slang tends to evolve/shift in definition a lot more swiftly than formal language.

As previously mentioned, unrequited love really really sucks.

It sure does, but unrequited love is no longer synonymous with "friend zone".

 

[KOMega]

Just because douchebags and misogynists use a word, doesn't mean we need to associate said word with them. If there was back-lash against words every time a douchebag co-opted their use their would be few words left in the english language.

Co-opted? Associate?

Was not "friendzone" developed by such people to mean such things? AFAIK, it's not a concept which has developed a negative meaning over time, that's all it ever was.

that's all it ever was.

yup.

What I most didn't understand about the phrase was what was wrong with having friends?
I don't believe a pre-requisite to being my friend also means you must be willing to have sex with me.
Having friends is a good thing, y'know?

 

[Vegosiux]

Alright, I'll just have to call a timeout here.

I do not know where and how the term "friendzone" was coined, but many people seem quite adamant in that it was a negative-connotation expression to begin with. The earliest mention of it I remember is from Friends where Ross is supposedly the mayor of Rachel's friendzone. It looked humorous to me then, not negative/bigoted.

So, where did it actually come from?

Please no "LMGTFY" links, the reason I'm asking here is that there seem to be people who know it around and I prefer asking live people first, search engines second.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Just because douchebags and misogynists use a word, doesn't mean we need to associate said word with them. If there was back-lash against words every time a douchebag co-opted their use their would be few words left in the english language.

Co-opted? Associate?

Was not "friendzone" developed by such people to mean such things? AFAIK, it's not a concept which has developed a negative meaning over time, that's all it ever was.

that's all it ever was.

yup.

What I most didn't understand about the phrase was what was wrong with having friends?
I don't believe a pre-requisite to being my friend also means you must be willing to have sex with me.
Having friends is a good thing, y'know?

Again, its less the idea that having friends is bad, and more that unrequited love just generally sucks, and that it can be frustrating and confusing for you to have very strong feelings for someone and for them to really really like you as a friend but feel absolutely nothing romantic.

 

[Thaluikhain]

What I most didn't understand about the phrase was what was wrong with having friends?
I don't believe a pre-requisite to being my friend also means you must be willing to have sex with me.
Having friends is a good thing, y'know?

By extension, if you hold the view that it is a/the pre-requisite, then there's only one reason why you would want to associate with them. Which is something of a problem.