Can we talk about the Harassment, please?

[SacremPyrobolum]

Unfortunately, the only way to really deal with harassment seems to be to revoke anonymity on the internet for either some or all, something I will never endorse.

 

[Cyberstrike_v1legacy]

SNIP.

Yeah, I heard about the Dunblane comment yesterday. It's one of the reasons I made this thread. Freedom of Speech... doesn't mean this. And it shouldn't mean freedom from consequence.

I think in America a lot of it has come radio talks shows and TV pundits some of whom think that because she or he is on TV and/or radio that as long as they obey the rules of a network that isn't consequence from saying stupid, mean, offenisive. And don't understand what the 1st admendent means: that only the governement can't censor you as long as you say something that leads death or destruction, but it doesn't say that you get millions of dollars a year to be a jackass, and that people can't challenge you or call you out if you're wrong or lying.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

This may not be a popular opinion:

Don't talk about being harassed, don't publicly tell people how it affected you, how you called the cops, affcts your family/health, lost sleep and am "literally shaking"

Drawing attention to these things tells people that it works. You may be going through all of those things but expressing them will not elicit sympathy from the harassers. Your friends and peers may be kind and "support" you. But talking about it validates their motivation for doing it. I have been harassed in life and giving them nothing but an empty vessel to pour these behaviors into actually works. Delete the emails, hang up the phone, don't read the letters. Certainly contact authorities. But do not talk about it publicly. It's fucking hard, trust me. But it works. They get bored very quickly and move on. Think about what motivates these people and you can easily fight them. You need an iron stomach to do it. BUT IT WORKS. (it did for me anyway)

 

[NiPah]

You're aggrandizing the act of harassment, in theory this results in more harassment.
You also run into the issue that by becoming too absorbed into the issue, you're subjecting yourself to more pain and suffering.

If you don't want to propagate harassment do the following:
Make the news coverage as boring as possible, sticking to the facts and localizing the occurrence.
Don't get emotional and tell others how much this is affecting people, or how big of an issue this is.
Don't put the harasser on some sort of twisted pedestal.
As an individual take away the power of the harasser, follow procedure and contact local law enforcement and do not show alterations in your life from the harasser's attacks (Although you should always follow the advice of local law enforcement).


Are these the right things to do? I can't tell you. Given our understanding on harassment behavior these steps should result in fewer instances. It certainly doesn't give victims much cathartic release by telling the internet just how badly harassment has affected their lives, it's actually quite cold and calculating, but honestly IMO these actions would be one of the few ways to stop harassment.

On the side of us as bystanders, our only actions would be:
Do not aggrandize the harassment, when posts open up about how bad harassment is simply ignore and do not post in them.
If someone you personally know is suffering from harassment take the steps to make sure they are safe, contact local law enforcement if needed.
If it is someone you do not know personally then do not do anything, if you have pertinent information pass it along to local law enforcement. This does not mean to ostracize the harassed, but if you have training in consoling then it's best to keep it short and avoid talking directly about the issue.
If you fear the individual might self-harm then contact local law enforcement, trained doctors are on call to help in these situations.

Once again these are just my opinions.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't understand your point. Can you clarify please?

Many of your recent posts involve posting articles and complaining about strawman versions of the contents. Like when you used that Leigh chick's admittedly terrible rant piece as an example of OMG PEOPLE THINK GAMERS ARE ALL STRAIGHT WHITE DUDES even though that's not remotely close to what she said.

How are these responses any different than the people you're ridiculing.

 

[Westaway]

How do you even allow yourself to be cyber bullied.

1. Block people sending you rude messages
2. There is no step 2

 

[Thorn14]

I don't understand your point. Can you clarify please?

Many of your recent posts involve posting articles and complaining about strawman versions of the contents. Like when you used that Leigh chick's admittedly terrible rant piece as an example of OMG PEOPLE THINK GAMERS ARE ALL STRAIGHT WHITE DUDES even though that's not remotely close to what she said.

How are these responses any different than the people you're ridiculing.

You must have me confused with someone else, I only posted that link once.

There's also the #DescribeAGamerIn4Words hashtag that went around at the same time. Someone asked me for proof of someone stereotyping gamers and I posted that article by Leigh, which did exactly that. Am I missing something?

 

[Ramzal]

How do you even allow yourself to be cyber bullied.

1. Block people sending you rude messages
2. There is no step 2

Pretty much this. People have called me names and or made assumptions about my character before. I even argued with them for awhile before realizing I am one click away from having a great day despite them. Block function = win.

 

[The_Darkness]

How do you even allow yourself to be cyber bullied.

1. Block people sending you rude messages
2. There is no step 2

I don't think that works against, say, doxxing or hacking.

Also... Okay, someone sends you an insulting message. Great, you block them. You still got the insulting message. Maybe you can ignore it, but not everyone can.

And now, let's take things up a level. Multiple people are harassing you. First it's, say, a dozen messages from a dozen or so people. You block each of them. But the messages keep coming, from new accounts, more people. What do you do? Lock down your profile? Block everything except for stuff you trust? Great, but things still got to the point where locking down your profile was the appropriate point. That can't feel good.

And now they've found your email address. Now you've got to clean out your email inbox, and add a filter that sends the harassment straight into the bin. Your filter probably won't be perfect though, so important messages may get binned as well, and some of the harassment may still get through.

And then someone posts your home address online. Complete with death threat. And you only hear about this from a friend, because you've just walked away from the internet.

There are people that have gone through all that. And they shouldn't have to. And blocking didn't help them.

Blocking is hardly a silver bullet.

 

[Something Amyss]

Block function = win.

Sweet. Remind me how the block function will undox me, again?

I mean, it must, or this would be a specious solution. But since it's = win, it must undox you and such.

 

[Thaluikhain]

This may not be a popular opinion:

Don't talk about being harassed, don't publicly tell people how it affected you, how you called the cops, affcts your family/health, lost sleep and am "literally shaking"

Drawing attention to these things tells people that it works. You may be going through all of those things but expressing them will not elicit sympathy from the harassers. Your friends and peers may be kind and "support" you. But talking about it validates their motivation for doing it. I have been harassed in life and giving them nothing but an empty vessel to pour these behaviors into actually works. Delete the emails, hang up the phone, don't read the letters. Certainly contact authorities. But do not talk about it publicly. It's fucking hard, trust me. But it works. They get bored very quickly and move on. Think about what motivates these people and you can easily fight them. You need an iron stomach to do it. BUT IT WORKS. (it did for me anyway)

Yes, on an individual level. But we are only having this discussion because people spoke up about the problem. The severity of the issue has been mostly off the radar, only recently it seems that people are thinking that something should be done.

Now, sure, I can't blame someone for keeping quiet about it, it's their choice. But there is a lot to be said for speaking out against it, and standing in solidarity with other victims.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

[blockquote]"Cyber harassment victims are at a distinct disadvantage when they look for new jobs. Most employers rely on candidates online reputation as an employment screen. According to a 2009 Microsoft study, nearly 80 percent of employers consult search engines to collect intelligence on job applicants, and about 70 percent of the time they reject applicants due to their findings.


[sub][source: http://www.newsweek.com/internet-and-golden-age-bully-271800][/sub][/blockquote]

And this is why I have no twitter, tumblr or facebook.

Seriously, I have plenty trouble getting a job on professional grounds alone, no need to give them more reasons to reject me through other means.

 

[The_Darkness]

Unfortunately, the only way to really deal with harassment seems to be to revoke anonymity on the internet for either some or all, something I will never endorse.

The only way you can really stop this is to remove anomynimity anonominity animinomono the ability for people to act anonymously on the web. I really think at the end of the day that's going to do more harm than good. Even if you could solve the problem of twitter, to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum's character from Jurassic Park "Arseholes always find a way."

An idea that I've been toying with in my mind - An email network that requires you to supply personally identifiable information in order to sign up. (Yeah, we'd need a trustworthy organisation running this, and that's a problem by itself.) The catch would be that you can only receive emails from other people on the same non-anonymous network. A sort of voluntary lack of anonymity.

That way, if something did get out of hand, anonymity wouldn't be protection for the person who said or did whatever...

... But even having just written that idea up, I don't like it. And I can't see the internet as a whole adopting something like that.

Grin, bear it, don't give into the temptation to be a dick when you have the chance, and hope to set an example for everyone else? It might catch on...

You never know...

 

[Thaluikhain]

And this is why I have no twitter, tumblr or facebook.

Seriously, I have plenty trouble getting a job on professional grounds alone, no need to give them more reasons to reject me through other means.

You are supposed to use your real name on FB...but they don't enforce that too well.

In the US, there was a thing a while back about potential employers demanding FB accounts and passwords of people they were interviewing. With unemployment such a concern, people couldn't really refuse.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

You are supposed to use your real name on FB...but they don't enforce that too well.

In the US, there was a thing a while back about potential employers demanding FB accounts and passwords of people they were interviewing. With unemployment such a concern, people couldn't really refuse.

Too bad you can sue your boss for such demands in the EU, since they have no right to your personal information, and demanding it in that way equals coercion, which is very illegal.

also, firing people over their ideological beliefs is also illegal, since that is Political Discrimination, which is covered by our "ground law" (closest thing we have to US amendments), somebody should break that to the whole GG discussion front. ^^

 

[The_Darkness]

That was helpful. So, if they had their personal information hacked and broadcast, that they considered private, they should just suck it up?

That's not harassment, that's theft.
In any case if you were prepared for the burden of celebrity you would have realised this was a possibility from the start, prepared for it and perhaps made it difficult for thieves to do such a thing.

Theft of personal information can be a form of harassment. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

And many people don't choose to be a celebrity, so you can hardly blame them for not being prepared. Especially when decent knowledge of the risks of the internet... isn't really something the public at large is good at.

 

[Westaway]

I don't think that works against, say, doxxing or hacking.

Okay

Also... Okay, someone sends you an insulting message. Great, you block them. You still got the insulting message. Maybe you can ignore it, but not everyone can.

Let's face is fellas, if you can't ignore a rude message from a 12 year old over the internet you're soft as fuck and will probably crumble after the first actual bad thing happens to you.

And now, let's take things up a level. Multiple people are harassing you. First it's, say, a dozen messages from a dozen or so people. You block each of them. But the messages keep coming, from new accounts, more people. What do you do? Lock down your profile? Block everything except for stuff you trust? Great, but things still got to the point where locking down your profile was the appropriate point. That can't feel good.

Yeah, keep blocking them or ignore them, or shut down your account, or literally walk away from the computer screen if you were so sheltered a band of heckling keyboard warriors bothers you.

And now they've found your email address. Now you've got to clean out your email inbox, and add a filter that sends the harassment straight into the bin. Your filter probably won't be perfect though, so important messages may get binned as well, and some of the harassment may still get through.

None of this is a big deal

And then someone posts your home address online. Complete with death threat. And you only hear about this from a friend, because you've just walked away from the internet.

Lmao, I seriously hope you realize that 90% of people on Facebook readily share their home address and that some tool on the internet saying he's going to kill you isn't an actual threat to your safety. I have literally given out my home address over Xbox Live challenging guys to fight me. You take the internet and the interactions that take place in it way too seriously.

There are people that have gone through all that. And they shouldn't have to. And blocking didn't help them.

Blocking is hardly a silver bullet.

Growing a pair would have helped them.

 

[The_Darkness]

SNIP

Great. You have a thick skin. Good for you. I did mention that not everyone does, right?

There have been job resignations in the face of online harassment. Mental breakdowns. Suicides. Are you going to say that those people for not simply didn't have a thick enough skin? Because that sounds suspiciously like victim blaming.

Given the choice between telling everyone that they just shouldn't feel the harassment, or trying to do something about the harassment, I'll pick trying to do something about the harassment every time.

 

[Westaway]

+
SNIP

Great. You have a thick skin. Good for you. I did mention that not everyone does, right?

There have been job resignations in the face of online harassment. Mental breakdowns. Suicides. Are you going to say that those people for not simply didn't have a thick enough skin? Because that sounds suspiciously like victim blaming.

Given the choice between telling everyone that they just shouldn't feel the harassment, or trying to do something about the harassment, I'll pick trying to do something about the harassment every time.

But I don't have a thick skin, I have a healthy amount. What I'm saying is that if you're so emotionally fragile that all it takes for you to have an emotional breakdown is some idiots heckling you on the internet, you were never going to make it far anyways.
Caring either way is a waste of time.