Can Werewolves still be scary?

BrawlMan

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I think most of the classic monsters horror has been ruined by people really wanting to fuck them.




I think thats why zombies still kinda work. There isn't a majority of people wanting to fuck them.
First of all: I remember that fan art. My favorite depiction of Felicia and Talbain.

Second: On the subject of zombies....uuuuhhhh...






Also, there is Wester hentai comic where the dude falls in love with a zombie girl. It's been around since the mid 2010s. So, there are people who want the zombie clit or dick. Not to mention, all of the fan-service artwork of Chinese vampire/Jiangshi Hsienko (Lei-Lei).
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
First of all: I remember that fan art. My favorite depiction of Felicia and Talbain.

Second: On the subject of zombies....uuuuhhhh...






Also, there is Wester hentai comic where the dude falls in love with a zombie girl. It's been around since the mid 2010s. So, there are people who want the zombie clit or dick. Not to mention, all of the fan-service artwork of Chinese vampire/Jiangshi Hsienko (Lei-Lei).
I didn't say people hadn't tried with zombies, just that so far the consensus is against it. Probably for the gore angle. Despite drinking blood and also being undead, vampire romantic depictions can ignore gore, zombies kinda require some amount of it and generally people aren't into gore with romance.
 

BrawlMan

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zombies kinda require some amount of it and generally people aren't into gore with romance.
Still not gonna stop people from trying. It may not be the majority, but there's a dedicated fan base. And who knows how big zombie romance is going to get in the next few years. They've done everything else already.

Me personally, zombies rarely scare me anymore aside from RE2Remake. Since they've become mind numblingly stale and over done.
 

SilentPony

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You ever been chased by a dog that really meant it?
Once actually. I was walking my little dog at a public park, we were passing a couple with a doberman and I called out asking if it was friendly and wanted to meet mine and they said absolutely not and gave a wide berth as we passed. Sure, whatever. We pass and Im walking and I hear "LOOK OUT!" turn around and the woman holding the leash had fallen, dropped the leash and their dog was going full pelt snarling at me and my dog. I scooped him up as the doberman leapt, snarling. I shoulder checked it and managed to get a single good kick in that really hurt it. Like just with my Krav Maga training and my size I think I broke a couple of its ribs. It certainly stopped attacking actively and just circled until the couple ran over.
The couple was mortified, ashen pale as if they fully expected their dog to kill mine. They pulled him away, apologizing like there was no tomorrow. I told them I and my dog were unharmed, but I was shaken too. They left really quickly, as we were not that far from the parking lot. Haven't seen them at that park since.

The point of this being that at the time, in that single moment when it was charging, I wasn't scared, I was angry. I knew this dog was going to hurt my dog and me if need be. Afterwards I was shaken. I shook all day. But in those 3 seconds of conflict you don't have time to be scared.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Still not gonna stop people from trying. It may not be the majority, but there's a dedicated fan base. And who knows how big zombie romance is going to get in the next few years. They've done everything else already.

Me personally, zombies rarely scare me anymore aside from RE2Remake. Since they've become mind numblingly stale and over done.
Well think about it, what do zombies bring to the romance table? A vampire brings power and class, a werewolf also brings power and fluff, but a zombie... they really are just dead humans. You can get what a zombie brings from a live human... aside from certain kind of infections that are best left not discussed.

Zombies are never the scary part of what they are in, or at least they haven't been for a long time. They tend to be used to show mans inhumanity to man or as a stand in for disease, its very rare that zombies are the main threat.
 

BrawlMan

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Zombies are never the scary part of what they are in, or at least they haven't been for a long time. They tend to be used to show mans inhumanity to man or as a stand in for disease, its very rare that zombies are the main threat.
And yet George A. Romero was able to accomplish both ways in his Living Dead Trilogy. As far as list of actual threatening zombies in media:
  • RE2Remake
  • Return of the Living Dead 1-3
  • Zombie (Zombi 2) - Though the zombies are slower than Romero's, they can one or two shot a person and leave huge chunks!
  • Dawn of the Dead (2004)
  • Killer 7 - Though the zombies are suicidal maniacs that blow themselves up.
  • House of the Dead Series. Especially 4 & 5 where you have to fight mobs of zombies.
That's all I got. Pretty much proves my point about them not being scary as they used to be before the over saturation.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I didn't say it did, I was simply pointing out that the same points you made about why werewolves aren't scary, can be equally applied to vamps and zombies. Your statement was regarding "uncanny valley" being the crux of them being scary. And the farther werewolves get from that, the less scary they are. I see the same thing happening, long before Twilight, with vampires. They've been humanized to the point of being nothing more than mopey, emo dudes with a blood disorder, or sexy vampy sex chicks, that always move like they are constantly having an orgasm from some remote control vibing egg or something.

And zombies are literally background dressing in their own genre, 95% of the time. Most conflict in those stories, are based around human vs human conflict. The zombies are just extra spices for raising the stakes.

So none of them are really "scary" in the majority of the iterations we see them in. Plus what you find scary is subjective, so it's even harder to pin that down.

You seem to feel that vamps and zombies haven't been pushed beyond uncanny valley, at least not as far as werewolves. I would say the opposite has happened, due to over-saturation, and the humanization to make them a relatable protagonist.
Guess I'll repeat it again: I've seen scary movies with vampires and zombies, I have yet to see a scary werewolf movie.

I'm not interested in trends. 28 Days Later and [REC] are terrifying no matter how many seasons of Walking Dead AMC shits out. And Twilight didn't kill either Nosferatu, both of which are excellent. But I can't think of a single scary werewolf movie, or even a good one, for that matter. On top of dodgy FX the creature always looks too familiar yet too ridiculous to be believable, so it's never unsettling. Also the concept of what makes a zombie or a vampire is malleable enough that you can get anything from Only Lovers Left Alive or The Hunger or 30 Days of Night to Let the Right One In from "it's a vampire movie", same with zombie movies running a quality array of comedy and drama and being able to deal with such disparate themes.

Obviously I'm not saying they're all homeruns but every now and then I find a great one and it reaffirms the potential of these creatures and their enduring appeal. Werewolves always looks the same and go through the same motions, which I'd say err on the side of a porny "unleash/control your wild side" much more frequently than either vamps or zombies. And this isn't without even bringing up all that furry crap.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
And yet George A. Romero was able to accomplish both ways in his Living Dead Trilogy. As far as list of actual threatening zombies in media:
  • RE2Remake
  • Return of the Living Dead 1-3
  • Zombie (Zombi 2) - Though the zombies are slower than Romero's, they can one or two shot a person and leave huge chunks!
  • Dawn of the Dead (2004)
  • Killer 7 - Though the zombies are suicidal maniacs that blow themselves up.
  • House of the Dead Series. Especially 4 & 5 where you have to fight mobs of zombies.
That's all I got. Pretty much proves my point about them not being scary as they used to be before the over saturation.
Threatening does not mean scary.
 

BrawlMan

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No. Threatening does not mean scary in everyone's opinion. There are instances where it overlaps but they are not synonymous.
Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. Depends on how its used or how you're doing it. I'm going to bed now, so we will finish this conversation some other time.
 

Saint of M

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My 2 cents before I read the comments

I think they can still be scary, the problem is they require a heavy amount of markup and special effects to make look right. Make it too goofy and its hard to take them seriously. At the same time there has to be a human element to it. What makes the Lon Chaney jr. Wolfman so scary wasn't the impassive markup effects, especially for its time, but a good man compelled to do murderous. But much like Dracula, Salem's Lot, Interview with a Vampire, and other greats in vamp fiction found ways to elivate and make the monsters even scarier, the same can be said here. But first, lets talk what kind of werewolf.

Clinical Lycanthropy: This we see in the real world, and may have been cases in the medieval and renascence period. You have a mental condition where you think you turn into a wolf or other animal creature, or think you are exhibiting some traits. You are not, but you believe it. I am not sure how common it is, I don't even know if its in my coppy o the DSM-5, but its a condition that might be fun to play around with.

Others might be a form of acid trip. One theory is magic mushrooms, or types of fungus in the bread Europeans ate had an halucinagetic affect; and much like Modern LSD, random crazy shenanigans, often violent ones, occurred.

How much control does the person have over their condition?

This can have scary moments in either side of this.

In full control: This is the what most shape changers were, werewolves no exception. You had to use magic, particularly black magic, in many parts of the world. There were good werewolves, Italy had some, but generally speaking you made this transformation. In some of the cases of wearwolves put to trial during the European witch hunts, the accuse would admit they made a deal with the devil and he gave them a special cloak or belt that if they wore it would allow them to transform, and then they would prey on their fellow human beings. With this kind, you might have to research serial or spree killers. Its been theorized these kind of murders were so horrendous that no one could believe they were done by a human, so this might have explained in part the werewolfism. Maybe there is a slight change in personality, or inclination for these things, so a werewolf has to either embrace or fight them, or find a way to embrace the beast without going all murder happy. Think Dog Soldiers, or the Howling.




Not in control: Its almost like a split personality taking over. The transformation happens and they have no control over what they do, such as in The Wolfman and Anmerican Werewolf in London. They don't want to kill, but they do, savagley, brutaly. To do this right, the monster has to be tragic. THis doesn't mean you can't have fun with it. THe monster design and the kills in the above mentioned films is great, and it was genious to have the guy in the monster costum wheelbarrled around to make it look like he was moving fast. In this case its more tragic. Think again Wolfman and American Werewolf in London

From there you can decide if it leans closer to humanoid (Eddie Munster, Wolfman, Jack Nicolson for most of Wolf) or lupin (Ginger snaps, the Brother's Grimm.)

Fun fact, you know that thing somewhere wolf stuff does where the wolf part rips off their human part when they transform like in Wolf Cop or Late Phases? Well that is surprisingly lore accurate; inquisitors would tear away the flesh of accused werewolves to see their wolf hide hidden underneath.

How indisductable do you want them to be? Depending on the fiction, it takes alot to kill them. The werewolves in American Werewolf In London go down with a hail of normal gunfire as any other living creature, but others can take a beating. THe only thing keeping the werewolves in Dog Soliders at bay is they feel pain, and even through they heal rapidly from their wounds, one even getting their arm severed, they need a good stab to the brain, an explotion, or silver then a bullet to the skull to take them down. Both versions could be intimidating.
 

Saint of M

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Ok, now for reading the comments.

I've heard it said that the true horror of the werewolf was that your loved ones can suddenly turn into a violent monster, and therefore was a metaphor for domestic abuse. That is something that sadly remains relevant to this day, and it has actually been explored in this fashion in the point-and-click video game by the name of Resonance.
Or say a group being persecuted. Its been a while, but I remember the DVD extras on the Lon CHainy Wolfman talking about the director having excaped the Nazies in WW2, so new exactly what it was like for good people to suddenly become monsters, and to be marked for death by a simple star.

You can use this for anything now adays. Racism, Jim Crow, Homophobia, and so many more.

If a regular wolf can be made to appear scary, then so can a werewolf. With the right lighting, editing, and sound design there's very little that CAN'T be made to appear scary. Heck, just look at David Lynch's work.
Again has to be done well. I don't think I felt scared at all durring that one Liam Neilson film where he he survives a plane crash and has to survive against wolves. But there have been films out there where you get the feeling of being hunted by an animal I felt the tention as well as the excitment for (Ghost and the Darkness for instance).

@Johnny Novgorod

I think it depends. No I haven't been scared of any werewolf movies latly, but I wasn't scared of Jason Vorhees either. It just has to be done right.

As for the real wolf, there is an intimidation factor to them, and one that can be exploited. They are a team oriented, intelligent, thinking animal. Not the the level of human intelligence, but one that make strategies none the less. There is also the fact that wolf packs are families so there is an instant comradery there, and if they loose one they can be very vindictive. To use Aliens as an example, the Reason the Riply vs Queen fight was so intense was you had too Mama Bears fighting: one to protect her seragate child, and one to avenge her children. A simalare thing could also be at play: You hurt my baby, now I am going to attack you.

One thing I also just now thought about, that could make the werewolf scarry is this: It has the killer instincts, strength, speed, claws, jaws, and cleverness of a wolf and the intelligence of a human. It lives for the hunt and now its as smart as we are. Then again, there are like 6 Predator movies out there with that same premis.

Will reply to more later.

As for the debate on scary and threatened, the two overlaped but don't have to go hand in hand. We have all had to deal with at one point or another that one guy that thought they were hot stuff and trying to look tough but you couldn't care less if you tried. And we have also been in situations where even if the person we are talking to is being cordgial and friendly, we still feel intimidated (say like the police, the person interviewing you for a job, meeting your girlfriend's dad for the first time).

Sheer Khan in Tailspin pulls this off perfectly. Even when he is not trying to be threatening, everyone in their right mind around him have a feeling of dread when near him
 
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Thaluikhain

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Dracula when made scary and creepy can still work (Coppola's Dracula)
That was almost 30 years ago, though, dunno if that counts as them still being scary. Unless you mean the movie still holds up with him being scary whereas werewolves films don't and aren't.

Once you introduce reality and science to these monsters they're really goofy, and clearly the work of ancient people who didn't understand either what they were seeing or the science behind the world.
Vampires can't exist in sunlight, but moonlight works fine. Even though the moon doesn't produce light and is reflecting sunlight. Same with werewolves coming out during a full moon because a full moon's light is not only different to all the other phases of the moon, but is different than sunlight.
Zombies are reanimated corpses and somehow achieve movement without blood flow, oxygen or brain function. And also never get sick. You ever notice Zombies, despite not having functioning marrow to produce white blood cells, never catch a cold or flu. They're basically walking immune compromised rotting bags of shit and are as healthy as a horse. 'cause they're from civilizations that didn't know about immune systems, blood creation or synapse in the brain.
Not quite. Vampires have been killed by sunlight since Nosferatu, a film made in 1922 (and was supposed to be destroyed due to copyright infringement, but one copy escaped being burnt and was spread across the world by pirates).

"Modern" zombies only really came to popular attention with the ghouls in Night of the Living Dead, made in 1968. True, you did have voodoo zombies before, but more obscure to western audiences.
 

gorfias

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No. Threatening does not mean scary in everyone's opinion. There are instances where it overlaps but they are not synonymous.
I can feel scared watching a movie, knowing I'm not under threat. Woody Allen can raise a fist to Hulk Hogan. Hogan may be threatened. I doubt he'd be scared.
I have. By a German Shepherd. I was 6. Caught me too. Still got a big ass scar on my back.
I hear you. I'm lucky to not be impaired when trying to walk. Dog tore off my entire right pant leg... along with a lot of flesh. I spent that Summer on crutches.
@BrawlMan : great movie list you provided. Dog Soldiers is a gem. American Werewolf in London was supposed to be a comedy but it still scared me witless.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I can feel scared watching a movie, knowing I'm not under threat. Woody Allen can raise a fist to Hulk Hogan. Hogan may be threatened. I doubt he'd be scared.
Exactly. I would have used a more nerdy reference of the blades from Super Meat Boy, extremely threatening but not scary.
 
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Gordon_4

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Once actually. I was walking my little dog at a public park, we were passing a couple with a doberman
A wolf pack in defence of its den is capable of killing a brown bear. They are a much, much hardier animal than a domesticated doberman with a bad temperament. They're also a shite sight smarter. Lone wolves have also been observed taking down moose, bison and muskoxen. How do you rate your physical capability against any of those animals?

Don't mistake a wolf for a 'bigger dog'. They are very much more than that.
 
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