Captain America 3 Is About What?!

[TakerFoxx]

Civil War was a great concept that had poor execution. The problem as I understand it is that they eventually turned Iron Man into a fascist and portrayed the who Pro-Registration side as straight-up bad guys. If they play up the moral ambiguity and have both sides portrayed as having valid points (and let's face it: they do) like they said they would, they could make it work this time. Hell, they already have the Winter Soldier in place. I would totally be down for them going full-hilt with the death of Captain America storyline. You know, provided that they make it stick. I adore the Cap and all, but major character deaths lose their meaning of they're always temporary.

 

[Cpt. Slow]

I could not care about that abomination of a storyline called Civil War. So, now that's out of the way. Secondly, I don't think Marvel ultimately won't go through with it because if they want to bring in RDJ for more than a cameo... then there are millions of other ways to do it.

Also the chance of this film rubbing the fans (and people who generally enjoyed the Marvel films) the wrong way is 10 to 1. Or is Marvel aiming for that so much cherished Oscar by making a very gritty film and burning all other bridges behind them? Time will tell.

Having Robert Downey Jr. play the sided of the guv'ment would be weird and awkward considering he was all up in Nick Fury's face during the Avengers film. And trolling senator Stern (Garry Shandling) when he was in a hearing for handing over the Iron Man project during Iron Man 2. Well, the list could go on but these are a few prime examples.

 

[Sylocat]

As Zontar said, the biggest problem with Civil War was that the Marvel higher-ups didn't give the various writers a clear enough description of how the registration system actually worked, so there was too little coherence with how it was portrayed and how the various characters reacted to it.

That's one problem the MCU doesn't have. And I still think Civil War was a good idea for a story.

 

[Silvianoshei]

I think the framework of Civil War was good, even if it's execution was off at times. I think that JW will do a better job with crafting this into a singular narrative.

Overall, This is so damn awesome.

 

[Darth_Payn]

So they're goin to do the Civil War story where most of the major players that aren't Cap and aren't Iron Man can't be shown. No Fantastic Four, no Spiderman, no Wolverine. You could get a Punisher in there, but considerin the MCU hasn't introduced the character yet and I haven't heard about anythin remotely involvin him it'd be a really strange tie in.

I do remember thinkin while the Civil War arc was goin on how extremely strange it was that the X-Men or really any mutants didn't join either side. It literally is the same story that was a central point of the X-Men universe for years and none of them care enough to have an opinion? The most I remember was a throwaway line about how they didn't want to get their fight tangled with the other superheroes fight, but that's such a cop-out that it boggles my mind.

I was just about to say that. Even with just ~200 mutants left in the world after House of M, the X-Men staying out of a fight over Registration doesn't make sense.

I could not care about that abomination of a storyline called Civil War. So, now that's out of the way. Secondly, I don't think Marvel ultimately won't go through with it because if they want to bring in RDJ for more than a cameo... then there are millions of other ways to do it.

Also the chance of this film rubbing the fans (and people who generally enjoyed the Marvel films) the wrong way is 10 to 1. Or is Marvel aiming for that so much cherished Oscar by making a very gritty film and burning all other bridges behind them? Time will tell.

Having Robert Downey Jr. play the sided of the guv'ment would be weird and awkward considering he was all up in Nick Fury's face during the Avengers film. And trolling senator Stern (Garry Shandling) when he was in a hearing for handing over the Iron Man project during Iron Man 2. Well, the list could go on but these are a few prime examples.

If you saw Winter Soldier, you'd now Stern was a member of HYDRA the whole time, so they probably wanted the Iron Man suit for themselves. 1 year after Iron Man 3 and I still wonder if A.I.M. had any links to them.

As Zontar said, the biggest problem with Civil War was that the Marvel higher-ups didn't give the various writers a clear enough description of how the registration system actually worked, so there was too little coherence with how it was portrayed and how the various characters reacted to it.

That's one problem the MCU doesn't have. And I still think Civil War was a good idea for a story.

That's why props should go to Captain America's writer at the time, Ed Brubaker, for portraying both Cap and Iron Man as having valid points and for especially not turning Iron Man into Robo-Hitler or whatever. Besides, anyone who interprets Steve's last will and testament as "Make Bucky the new Cap and throw him at the Red Skull" can't be all bad.

 

[Something Amyss]

Maybe Marvel's movie writers can do something with it. But I'm not sure it's a good idea to remind people of Civil War, since it was so poorly received.

Personally I felt that ideologically speaking it would have made much more sense for Captain America to be the one to go overboard in support of governmental oversight and that main reason they plumped for Stark doing so is that the fans would be less resistant to the idea of Tony being in the wrong and acting like an ass than Steve doing the same.

Captain America doesn't do that sort of thing, though. This is the guy who took off the costume because he objected to the government in the 80s.

Tony Stark, however, has done some similar, sweeping things in the past. Maybe not as far as the registration act, but enough to say it's in his character and ideology.

 

[Baresark]

Argh not that crappy Civil War. I was so happy I could ignore most of it and read the far superior Annihilation story that was going on at the same time.

In response to Civil War I give you this.

Spoiler

I actually enjoyed the Civil War enough, if only because of the significant amount of social commentary it offered (that Bob didn't mention). But Annihilation was much better. I like the fallout so much more with World War Hulk (one of the best Hulk stories in my living memory). And there were two moments of post civil war that I absolutely loved. One was the scene you mentioned above. It was just cathartic to see Tony Stark get ripped a new asshole during his sales pitch to get Richard Ryder to register. It displayed the absolute insanity of Stark's Shield and post Civil War America when you your pitching the guy who saved the entire universe to do the right thing and register.

The other mega cathartic scene for me was this:

He had that coming big time.

Edit: I tried spoiler'ing it, but it would not work for some reason.

 

[Jinjer]

Well last time I checked the whole 'Civil War in the MCU' was pure speculation. I haven't seen ANY official statement from Marvel regarding this and currently I find it highly unlikely

 

[ExtraDebit]

The civil war was about super heroes secret identity, but none of the superheroes in the current MCU have secret identities and there just isn't enough superheroes in MCU right now that will make a civil war story make sense. Maybe if they had spiderman or the xmen it would make more sense, but they don't.

A civil war type story line would only be logical if they had already establish a universe within the MCU where there are numerous superheroes with secret identity, this is not the case at this point.

Also, the civil war stories sucks.

 

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

A fight over super-registration. This will probably have something to do with the presence of Gifted, Miracles, or whatever else Dis-vel wants to call people born with powers in their movies.

So my guess is the driving force behind this will be Cap opposing a VERY X-Men style registration act because, and Cap's afraid it will lead to camps (internment, concentration, or something else altogether.) Tony's in favor because...he knows a thing or two about "human/living weapons" and wants to minimize the damage they can do?

 

[Baresark]

So they're goin to do the Civil War story where most of the major players that aren't Cap and aren't Iron Man can't be shown. No Fantastic Four, no Spiderman, no Wolverine. You could get a Punisher in there, but considerin the MCU hasn't introduced the character yet and I haven't heard about anythin remotely involvin him it'd be a really strange tie in.

I do remember thinkin while the Civil War arc was goin on how extremely strange it was that the X-Men or really any mutants didn't join either side. It literally is the same story that was a central point of the X-Men universe for years and none of them care enough to have an opinion? The most I remember was a throwaway line about how they didn't want to get their fight tangled with the other superheroes fight, but that's such a cop-out that it boggles my mind.

I was just about to say that. Even with just ~200 mutants left in the world after House of M, the X-Men staying out of a fight over Registration doesn't make sense.

Well, why they stayed out was written into the story. Everyone tried getting the mutants on their side. But in the end, the few left in the world didn't feel it was right to risk their entire people over something that didn't technically involve them. They were not made to register and had basically declared their own country with the understanding they would not include themselves. They also went through a very similar thing themselves (mutant registration). It was a big point of contention with Wolverine and Cyclops.

Edit OT: My thought is this... it's weird because there isn't enough people in their universe with powers that aren't gods or just really smart and augmented somehow. They are finally touching on people with actual powers in Agents of Shield, making that show more important than ever. I mean, we have yet to see Age of Ultron, but with the exception of Captain America, we haven't really seen normal humans with powers of some kind. There is the Hulk... but good luck with that one. Right now, off the top of my head, there are roughly 4 people in the MCU that would need to register.

Time will tell what happens here, but they are ill equipped for such a story (no purpose for it yet). We'll have to see what happens in the coming few years and the MCU.

 

[deathbydeath]

Well, given a premise like the Civil War it seems like Marvel Studios can use this opprotunity to make a movie that isn't just a dumb actio- *breaks out into laughter*

Sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face. Anyways, if there's one thing you can rely on from the MCU it's for them to make a film that's half-assed in all but the exterior elements. To me, watching these movies is like cutting myself a larger slice of cake than I should. It seems like a fun idea at first, but half an hour after the deed is done I'm in pain and wondering why I did it in the first place.

Seeing Marvel continually fail to get my hopes up makes me wish there was a studio out there with the balls/budget/talent to adapt Worm [http://parahumans.wordpress.com/] to the screen, so people can finally have a reference point for a smart, interesting superhero film that isn't The Dark Knight (granted, Worm's obscene length would probably make it better suited for television but the point still stands).

 

[camazotz]

Argh not that crappy Civil War. I was so happy I could ignore most of it and read the far superior Annihilation story that was going on at the same time.

After reading so much of the cosmic and Doctor Strange stuff from Marvel, I often get the feeling that so much of what happens in the X-Men and the Avengers are the small side-stories rather than the other way around.

I wonder if anyone will comment on why most of the Infinity Stone stuff seems to be centered around Earth or at least Earthlings. Artifacts of cosmic significance are being found left and right by a species that hasn't ventured past its own moon.

That's frequently lampshaded in the comics and in fact is a driving plot point in the recent Guardians of the Galaxy comic. Earth is viewed by the galactic community as a dangerous centerpiece to frequent cosmic near-extinction events and the surrounding alien empires can't figure out why.

 

[TKretts3]

Argh not that crappy Civil War. I was so happy I could ignore most of it and read the far superior Annihilation story that was going on at the same time.

After reading so much of the cosmic and Doctor Strange stuff from Marvel, I often get the feeling that so much of what happens in the X-Men and the Avengers are the small side-stories rather than the other way around.

I wonder if anyone will comment on why most of the Infinity Stone stuff seems to be centered around Earth or at least Earthlings. Artifacts of cosmic significance are being found left and right by a species that hasn't ventured past its own moon.

That's frequently lampshaded in the comics and in fact is a driving plot point in the recent Guardians of the Galaxy comic. Earth is viewed by the galactic community as a dangerous centerpiece to frequent cosmic near-extinction events and the surrounding alien empires can't figure out why.

So the Alien Empires view Earth kind of the same way that a lot of Westerners view the Middle East?

 

[Swarmcrow]

you forgot to mention that civil war is a cheep rip off of kingdom comes XD

 

[Swarmcrow]

also i don't see this working...there aint enough super heroes in the marvel film universe .. and everyone already know their secret identities .. besides ... the whole "we been run by nazis all this time" doesn't particularly give the government the public support to force the registration act

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

How fortuitous that I ran across this on my weekly scouring of dA for good artwork.

 

[TallanKhan]

I have been dreading this ever since the Hydra reveal in Cap 2. The biggest strength of the Marvel movies is even with each standing as part of something bigger, each film so far has stood on it's own too (even if Iron Man 2 wobbled a little). If we end up with something like Civil War overshadowing an entire phase of the movies, it's going to be very difficult to keep that up. Each film will either have to just assume people have watched everything else to date, or will have to devote huge time to explaining why everyone hates each other now.

Plus am I the only one thinking that they don't have enough Robert Downey Jr to make this work? As I understood he was signed for 6 films, 4 of which are in the bag, and everyone had assumed that these would be Avengers 2 & 3. Now we know that he is in Avengers 2, and has all but said he won't sign up to any more movies to play Stark, so if they use him in Cap 3 that's him done. No Avengers 3, no Mega crossover, or is my maths wrong somewhere?

Now as an alternative, at the end of Iron Man 3 we still had Iron Patriot kicking around, I could get on board with the idea of James Rhodes as a serviceman and as Iron Patriot fronting a pro-registration movement, and they wouldn't have to use one of their Robert Downey Jr credits (not to mention save his salary) to make it happen.

 

[LostPause]

Captain America doesn't do that sort of thing, though. This is the guy who took off the costume because he objected to the government in the 80s.

Tony Stark, however, has done some similar, sweeping things in the past. Maybe not as far as the registration act, but enough to say it's in his character and ideology.

Yeah, I understand that Steve Rogers' comicbook portrayal is almost infuriatingly saintly in that he rarely have to deal with the consequences of being on the wrong side of an issue. As far as I can recall the most guilt he's ever shown is over Bucky [which wasn't all that necessary anyway]. Given that one of the defining themes of his stories is that he's a bit of a 'fish out of water' and anachronistically traditional, his instinctively good grasp of situations kinda stymies his capacity for learning from mistakes and developing as a character. It also means that anyone who opposes him generally comes off looking worse for it.

I was looking ahead [perhaps a little too far] when I spoke about Iron Man and Cap-I had the MCU in mind, considering how they might want to deal with a 'Civil War' style story. RDJ's Tony Stark seems like an even unlikier supporter of Registration given how he's generally been the least eager to join in with S.H.I.E.L.D. [who operate only one or two steps away from Registration-syle activities] and has been very clear that he would not be happy turning over his technology for government use.

I guess that the emergence of some new superpowers or, indeed, an incident where one of his unmanned Iron Man suits led to collateral damage could conceivably be used to instigate his change of heart but as things stand the people in the MCU who logically would support registration aren't the Avengers but S.H.I.E.L.D.

Funnily enough, I think that the one major marvel character who might work well as a kick-off for Civil War style arguments among the Avengers would be Punisher. Sure it'd be more about vigilantism and making heroes accountable for their actions than superpowers and secret identities but I feel it could be done satisfactorily.

 

[jademunky]

Others in this thread have mention it as well, but I've gotta chime in. They don't have enough super heroes. No X-men, no spidey, no deadpool, no thunderbolts. Assuming it starts with Tony Stark launching The Hulk into outer space, they will have no Hulk either. Hawkeye, Falcon and Black Widow are already government agents with no super powers, Thor is not a citizen of earth so....... who besides Captain America and Tony Stark would be affected by it?

"We, the US government have decreed that all super-heroes on earth, namely these two guys, must reveal their identities and register under the avengers initiative (or 50 state initiative). Whats that? We already know who they both are? And they both already work for us? Well that was fucking easy."

Having said all that, I really loved to hate Reed Richards and Tony Stark back during the civil war and am looking forward to seeing how they do this.