Captain Philips - Sympathy for the Pirate

[Kittyhawk]

Looks like an interesting film, will check it out. Shame they didn't want to get political on the commentary cause that would have made it better.

The dire situation that Somalia is in partly a western made problem. Corporations doing business have partly put in on that path, Marxism and dictatorship and the fall out from both did the rest, that poor fishermen have no choice but to attempt dangerous stuff like piracy, when they can't FISH. Not being able to eat or pay bills will lead people down dark paths. If you think this is bull its not. Lots of companies want their slice of Africa's resources.

Feels like another attempt to keep people stupid of the facts, so long as no americans are hurt or killed, they don't care really. When it gets on the USTV News though, then they start care. That kind of terrible 'fuck the world' attitude is exactly why the US shouldn't be world police, as they seem to mess up more than they solve issues.

The presence of Muslim extremists entering the picture is obviously not helping things. No solution to them but to fight them as they are almost beyond reason.

 

[Amir Kondori]

This is just my own hangup about the whole thing but is there any mention about how these pirates are all former fishermen and commercial fishing fleets decimated their fishing grounds and destroyed their livelihoods?

Source? Last I checked Somalia was generally poverty stricken and held by several warlords. Not to mention the fact that groups, like Al Qaeda, often pay these warlords to attack shipping lines and there are even dedicated pirate training camps. That is the problem I have with films like this. I am shown a man in poverty and am supposed to understand why he resorts to violence and show sympathy. The problem is, I don't care. They made the choice to attack unarmed merchants, fuck em.

Source- Just google, "al qaeda pays somali pirates"

I don't like this kind of attitude some people have. You can understand something without condoning it. Somalia has not been a great place to live the last few decades. The country has been rife with civil war, and most people live nomadic lives raising goats and cattle to survive. With no functional government illegal fishing off the coast of Somalia became common and the Somalis acted to protect their waters.
Now Somalia is starting to recover and other factors have led to a reduction in the piracy problem. If you don't take the time to understand why something is happening you can never fix it. Acknowledging the reasons for piracy does not mean you condone the piracy. I don't feel the movie condoned the piracy either. It simply let us see what drives it.

 

[Eppy (Bored)]

Am I the only one who is insanely excited to see a movie about Mary Poppins? Because I am seriously excited.

 

[putowtin]

Good to see Tom Hank continue to make good films, he's come along way since "The Man With One Red Shoe"
(an unappreciated classic in my book!)

 

[Sarge034]

To clear up some confusion, this was my initial gripe. The underlined section is false and the bolded part is why. Everything else I am saying is personal opinions, but this is 100% false. Kids are being recruited off the streets, sent to pirate training camps, and attack merchants for their bosses and their bosses' financial backers. If they were all fishermen they wouldn't need khot (cot) to ward off sea sickness, just sayin.

"SecondPrize:
This is just my own hangup about the whole thing but is there any mention about how these pirates are all former fishermen and commercial fishing fleets decimated their fishing grounds and destroyed their livelihoods?"

Spoiler: Zetatrain

Who can say for sure? They may not be the first, but they could very well be fisherman that are still getting screwed over by the effects of illegal fishing and dumping that were previously mentioned.

I can make an educated leap of faith as this piracy campaign started between 1990 and 2005 depending on the source. If the fishermen were 20 in 1990 then they are now 40, if they have survived this long. In all of the piracy reports coming out of that area I have not seen one with a 40 year old pirate. Piracy is a young person's profession. If you know the fishing is bad you don't become a fisherman. This is simple logic, so the only reason to become a fisherman is because; 1) it is the family business (so the rest of your family are probably also pirates) or 2) You want to get in on this potentially lucrative piracy venture.

The less opportunities there are to make an honest living the more likely one will resort to unsavory means of making ends meet.

True, and irrelevant to me. I could understand if they went and stole some food or something like that, but once you start using guns, taking hostages, and hurting people you have lost all of my empathy. All that is left is vengeful rage.

Again just speculation on my part, but since some are being back by terrorists and warlords it possible that the pirates get a rather small part of the ransom and the majority goes to his backer. Not saying this is the case for all of them as I do believe a good number of them do it for the get rich quick part of the job, but it's something I thought I'd point out.

The terrorist backers would likely not get any kickbacks for two reasons; it leaves a money trail for intelligence agencies to follow and they are more paying for a service not making an investment. The terrorist want to disrupt our way of life and one way to do that is to mess with our trade/economy. Think of this like a company subcontracting out the janitorial services for their office building. As for the warlords, they probably would get the bulk of the cash. However, we must also remember that wealth is relative. $1,000 US would make you a god among the common man and these guys often want millions. I will concede, however, that I am unsure what the pirate's actual cut of the ransom would be.

I guess it all depends on what you think are the most likely reasons and/or circumstances these men went into piracy for.

This is the prevailing mindset that absolutely baffles me. Why does it matter? How is someone who takes hostages at gunpoint for a ransom to feed his family any different from someone who takes hostages at gunpoint just for the ransom? At what point for you does an individual's actions nullify the reason for those actions?

EDIT: I don't condone these actions but the whole Somalian piracy issue is not so black and white.

To me at least, it is. They want to be violent criminals? Fine. Go be violent in their own country and let their countrymen deal with them. The moment they attack a foreign asset they have essentially declared war on that country and, as such, have become armed combatants not deserving of empathy, sympathy, or mercy.

Spoiler: SecondPrize

The source is a great many news stories when this was a big thing. If you'd rather see someone watch their family starve, I dunno, that's pretty odd. Google is never a source.

So share them, or at least point me in the direction of them like I did with google. If I had to choose between a Somali's family starving and a merchant mariner getting murdered I would chose the family starving. At least then they would only have themselves to blame. I'd rather see them stop fucking around and short their shithole of a country out, but failing that I would like to see them contain their crime within their borders. There was a whole page of sources which is why I said google it, but now that I'm spoiler tagging all these replies I don't have to worry about space. Enjoy!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEAQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffrontpagemag.com%2F2009%2Fstephenbrown%2Fcrime-pays-for-somali-pirates-by-stephen-brown%2F&ei=WGFaUsfpAeOZiQL9poDIAw&usg=AFQjCNEfzrfFN4DHnKsPnE8KwcRhjR7_sQ&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPiracy_in_Somalia&ei=WGFaUsfpAeOZiQL9poDIAw&usg=AFQjCNEVKuMryo3LBcWJioaBvA2tqFnb0w&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CE0QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.academia.edu%2F195496%2FPirates_Ransom_-_To_Pay_or_not_to_Pay&ei=WGFaUsfpAeOZiQL9poDIAw&usg=AFQjCNFU9iHDe_8WouFlKVXnTvk1sSq-VQ&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&ved=0CFMQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpiratebook.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fare-somali-pirates-helping-al-qaeda.html&ei=WGFaUsfpAeOZiQL9poDIAw&usg=AFQjCNF5ar2tMmr8BiIJL_0YIxXpjfNmng&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&ved=0CGsQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2009%2Fnov%2F01%2Fpirate-ransoms-could-fund-terrorists&ei=WGFaUsfpAeOZiQL9poDIAw&usg=AFQjCNFQzYqLuNxKl1-M326OncxdZwgnDQ&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&ved=0CCgQFjAAOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gale.cengage.com%2Fpdf%2Fsamples%2FTOC_9780737760286.pdf&ei=IGJaUrVugqaKAuHUgYAP&usg=AFQjCNGf0XvIkJt_wz5c5OjyFQhgOeKqzg&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://books.google.com/books?id=0X5udnBe5JIC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=al+qaeda+pays+somali+pirates&source=bl&ots=VK9i5ow9q6&sig=cnoqwE4WVWT_jR_m-xNWG9ZsW_k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IGJaUrVugqaKAuHUgYAP&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCTgK

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=22&cad=rja&ved=0CFsQFjALOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.usni.org%2F2011%2F07%2F02%2Fsomali-pirates-and-21st-century-technology&ei=IGJaUrVugqaKAuHUgYAP&usg=AFQjCNH0F0jOcYGkiqcB4v5q4PQP1KOuJw&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=23&cad=rja&ved=0CGIQFjAMOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsenseofevents.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fpiracy-ransom-cash-ends-up-in-al-qaeda.html&ei=IGJaUrVugqaKAuHUgYAP&usg=AFQjCNFMh0uVx3_o0nh9zO9qka4cDdK4zA&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=24&cad=rja&ved=0CGgQFjANOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfr.org%2Fsomalia%2Fterrorism-havens-somalia%2Fp9366&ei=IGJaUrVugqaKAuHUgYAP&usg=AFQjCNEKQ0xbLKlSAKJ6-cMewlkyMHo3wg&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

Ect, ect, ect. Start to see why I didn't list them all?

Spoiler: Amir Kondori

I don't like this kind of attitude some people have. You can understand something without condoning it.

True, you can. However, the statement made was false as I clarified above. Personally, I don't care why they took hostages at gunpoint. All I care about is that they did take hostages at gunpoint.

Somalia has not been a great place to live the last few decades. The country has been rife with civil war, and most people live nomadic lives raising goats and cattle to survive. With no functional government illegal fishing off the coast of Somalia became common and the Somalis acted to protect their waters.

And I would reply if they were tired of that way of life they needed to get their shit together and form a new government. Now, there is proof to support they were acting to protect their waters in the beginning, but the second they stopped hitting fishing vessels and started targeting merchant ships that lost all credibility.

Now Somalia is starting to recover and other factors have led to a reduction in the piracy problem. If you don't take the time to understand why something is happening you can never fix it.

I understand just fine, I simply don't care. The only way I, or my government, could fix anything in that shithole is through the application of military force. Nothing will change while the warlords are in power, NOTHING. The UN food shipments that will reduce the need to pirate? Seized by warlords to feed their people. The multi-national volunteers that go to Somalia to try to better the people's lives? Kidnapped for ransom. So you tell me, how exactly is the situation going to get better? You did take the time to understand it, right?

Acknowledging the reasons for piracy does not mean you condone the piracy. I don't feel the movie condoned the piracy either. It simply let us see what drives it.

I do acknowledge the reasons for piracy, all of the reasons. Not just the ones that make the pirates out to be the poor pitiful underdogs that people think I should have empathy for. Also, notice how I never said the movie condoned piracy. I was disagreeing with another post that essentially said that pirates are poor pitiful underdogs that we should have empathy for. TLR response to that post was "fuck em".

 

[Moeez]

I don't get why the more interesting films are relegated to text reviews that clearly need more traffic while boring boilerplate multiplex action movies are given a video review spotlight. This is an excellent review, I'm completely psyched to see another Greengrass movie to the level of United 93's quality. And yet this could easily have been a video review since Bob already reads off a good script for them, but now it's here with only 25 comments and not many people will be bothered to have the movie on their radar other than the film nerds.

 

[CronoT]

I was actually at a church when the news broke about the captain of the Maersk being rescued and the pirates being killed by the Navy SEALs snipers.

The reason I don't say MY church, is because after announcing the captain had been rescued, the Pastor of the church stepped onto the stage (I refuse to call the spot where he committed this desecration an altar.) and cried out that three of the pirates had been killed, and praised God for it. I walked out of that church, and have never set foot in it since.

I don't get why the more interesting films are relegated to text reviews that clearly need more traffic while boring boilerplate multiplex action movies are given a video review spotlight. This is an excellent review, I'm completely psyched to see another Greengrass movie to the level of United 93's quality. And yet this could easily have been a video review since Bob already reads off a good script for them, but now it's here with only 25 comments and not many people will be bothered to have the movie on their radar other than the film nerds.

For the same reason that the big AAA movies get million dollar trailers. Ratings and ticket sales numbers.

Bob has lamented over and over about how most movies coming out this time of year are just naked cash and/or Oscar grabs. The Weinstein Company makes pretentious, artsy crap SOLELY for the purpose of winning Oscars.

 

[Amakusa]

I wasn't planning to see it before since i didn't find the previews that interesting. While i vague remember the event, considering my geographic location, it wasn't that big and news worthy down here. However i think i might after reading bob's review.

 

[Lovesfool]

If it's as good as the text suggests, why not do an Escape to the Movies about it, instead of Machete Kills? We all knew what Machete Kills was before watching any video review of it. Hell, we knew what it was as soon as the first one was announced and we saw the first trailer.

 

[soulblade06]

On the topic of how sympathetic the pirates are:

The way Abdi (Muse) says his line about how they are fisherman sort of led me to believe that he was just making a blatant lie. In fact, I was actually kind of confused when Tom Hanks (Phillips) held onto that concept and told the pirate that he was "more than just a fisherman". Then again, I was also confused about what exactly Muse would have heard in that statement that calmed him down, but perhaps he just interpreted it as "You're a captain, and you are responsible for the lives of your crew"

But even if it is doubtful that these men have been anything except for pirates, that "Maybe in America" line still hits hard. Armed militias show up at these guys' village every week demanding that they bring them millions of dollars. They know that they can't stand up to their bosses, and nobody is coming to help. If they fail, the best case scenario is that they never see another bullet, another ounce of food, or anything that they need to survive. More likely, people they know are going to die if they don't rob ships.

At least, that's how it's presented in the movie. I couldn't really say what the actual situation is in Somaila, but if a warlord has your village on their map and expects a steady stream of income, eventually you run of ethical options.