Cartoons CAN be Mature!

[OniYouji]

It's just a medium. Look up Bakshi or half the Studio Ghibi lineup and you can see it's all not just kiddie fluff.

Grave of the Fireflies. Sigh.

I swear a thread identical to this was done quite literally last week.

and yes. But then again, every thread is repeated in the escapist. "Your avatar is now...", "Is it just me or...", "Why do people like...", etc.

Every forum ever repeats threads. The Escapist is hardly any different.

OT: The reason why is namely because of the rise of television animation in the 50s and 60s a time known as the "Dark Age of Animation", due to very strict censors trying to be family friendly, as well as the collapse of theatrical animated shorts (which were made for adults as well as children; while heavily dealing in slapstick, there were often mature themes like alcohol, tobacco and, in some rare cases, suicide). This has resulted in the "Animation Age Ghetto" as TV Tropes likes to call it. To make a long story short, full-quality animation was expensive, but limited, low quality animation was not. This was perfect for TV, as it was even cheaper than live action, and since they figured "kids don't know what quality is", that's where most limited animation productions should aim for. And since then, animation producers basically started aiming for kids, making merchandise driven series that would almost guarantee a profit, especially in toy sales.

This is becoming less prevalent nowadays, especially since television standards have loosened, and producers realized that the parents often stuck watching these cartoons were an audience in and of themselves. Then, they started branching out again, and thus, for the most part, the Ghetto has crumbled, though there are plenty of people who feel that it's still "kiddy" stuff, or that even animation supposedly targeted towards adults is still "immature", due to the more outrageous and downright silly nature of some animated comedies (Family Guy, Metalocalypse, Squidbillies and South Park are some cited examples by others' words, not mine).

This phenomenon is not unlike the way comic books are seen as children's stories by some nowadays; the Golden Age of Comics featured some rather harsh things (Batman's debut issue had him kick a man into a vat of acid, and some comics had him use a gun), but when the Comics Code began to bear down on darker elements, the Silver Age was ushered in, and almost exclusively targeted children. This also occurred in the 50s and 60s, so it's certainly no coincidence. In the 70s, things loosened, and well, that turns into it's own story there.

TL;DR: The 50s and 60s were not kind to animation or comic books, therefore the "kiddy" conception that people have today.

 

[Namewithheld]

everyone is ignoring that hes citing watchmen, a graphic novel, as an example of mature cartoon?

This came from Watchmen? I just found this on youtube. How are they connected?

Yup!

The Tale of the Black Freighter is a comic within a comic, a twisted, dark representation of Ozymandias internal journey.

Also, in the 80s, there was a show called Exo-Squad. The bad guys set up concentration camps and dumped humans into the sun, and the main characters attempt genocide. And this was a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Err who say cartoon are for kids these days? Mature cartoon existed years ago like e.g. the more adult shows like South Park and Family Guy (since kid would not get some of the references).
I suppose better examples would be Afro Samurai, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Grave of the Fireflies and maybe Toy Story 3 (it had a mature undertone of life and death).

 

[saxxon.de]

The Spawn Animated Series is also for adults. It's not very good animated but then again it's from the nineties.

 

[Kais86]

I'm gong to put out that there is "mature" and mature, two completely different animals that are often confused for one another. If you can't tell the difference between them, and consider yourself mature, you aren't. You are "mature", fundamentally: a child.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

There is always Batman the animated series. And A Scanner Darkly. And Heavy Metal. And almost everything by Ralph Bakshi. And a good majority of anime.
Like Elfen Lied
<youtube=E5pgqAMBCR4>
Mature for exploring the dark side of humanity when confronted with something they fear. Also notable for having a character witnessing her dog being beaten to death in front of her.
and Hellsing
<youtube=MyD2p-uWQsU>
Mature for...Well, Violence. and that's about it. Guilty Pleasure
Also for kids movies, Secret of NIMH and Watership Down are very mature movies aimed at children.

calling Heavy Metal mature is an insult to everything that is Tits ans Heavy Metal. Take that back immediatly!

 

[Harlemura]

They're not considered mature because people grow up watching cartoons, so associate them with childhood. I'd guess.
Though I think when it cranks up the maturity, people just call it an animation rather than a cartoon. But where the "line of maturity" is or how many people actually think like this, I don't know.

 

[sumanoskae]

FYI, the short you watched is from Watchmen. It was spliced into the comic as a book one of the minor characters was reading. In the ultimate cut, they put together a short film and spliced it into the movie.

I've known cartoons could be mature for a while now. Discounting anime, you ever watch the Batman animated series or movies. Return of The Joker and Under the Red Hood are really worth checking out. Their on instant if you have Netflix.

 

[Fanta Grape]

and yes. But then again, every thread is repeated in the escapist. "Your avatar is now...", "Is it just me or...", "Why do people like...", etc.

I LOST FAITH IN HUMANITY.... AGAIN!

hehehehe. Oh, and I forgot. The pony thread.

 

[sumanoskae]

There is always Batman the animated series. And A Scanner Darkly. And Heavy Metal. And almost everything by Ralph Bakshi. And a good majority of anime.
Like Elfen Lied
<youtube=E5pgqAMBCR4>
Mature for exploring the dark side of humanity when confronted with something they fear. Also notable for having a character witnessing her dog being beaten to death in front of her.
and Hellsing
<youtube=MyD2p-uWQsU>
Mature for...Well, Violence. and that's about it. Guilty Pleasure
Also for kids movies, Secret of NIMH and Watership Down are very mature movies aimed at children.

I wouldn't really call Hellsing mature. Yeah, it's violent, but explicitness and maturity aren't the same thing. Hellsing is an action show, that's it. It appeals to immaturity because it's cool but thematically simplistic.(I'm not going to comment on Elfen Lied, just because I'm not very fond of it)

I'd count anime like Monster, Samurai X, Berserk, Code Geass or Fullmetal Alchemist as mature much more readily, because they explore mature, relevant themes(By most standards, if not always mine. FMA, Monster, I'm looking at you)

 

[Zay-el]

Some might not agree with me on this, but I'm ready to call Wakfu a much more mature show than it's advertised to be and I'll tell you why.

Technically, Wakfu is a French Saturday morning cartoon, aimed especially at kids 8-10. The characters a likeable, the animation is absolutely gorgeous and the action is pretty good. The plot seems interesting, but nothing really groundbreaking...UNTIL mid-season kicks in.

From that point on, things immediately seem to escalate in a rate previously unimagined, culminating in one of the darkest last few episodes I've ever seen in such a cartoon. Nox, the main villain of the season is nowhere near the usual two-dimensional villains, but has so much depth and inherent tragedy to his story(see the Noximillien special) that I think is quite rare.

If anyone else had seen at least the first season, I'm pretty sure you'll agree that it's very much above a standard cartoon level.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Why yes, they can be. It's been proven that they can for decades now. It just still has to sink through in our selective cultural conscious.

The "spiked bowle", X-men references, Final fantasy fighting music etc.

Wait...what? I didn't notice any of those. What are you talking about?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Animation's been mature since the 1940's.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

Sure they can be mature. I'm just more interested in the childish ones.

 

[Sammaul]

everyone is ignoring that hes citing watchmen, a graphic novel, as an example of mature cartoon?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

FACT: There is anime that is more gory then the goriest movie, and there is anime that is more sexual and disturbing then the hardest core porn. Every time I hear someone say anime is for kids, my first thought is 'Wow, this person has a weak stomach. lol'.

Someone who has a weak stomach and couldn't handle the graphic scenes in anime probably wouldnt say it's for kids. Also slinging blood and semen anywhere isn't really mature so much as it is explicit. But yes, animes, despite often being hamhandedly written by what I'm assuming are 16 year olds hopped up on molly, have much more potential to be mature because japan values animation as a medium much more that we do.

Cartoons CAN be mature, but they usually aren't, because they're primarily directed at children. The only cartoons that spring to mind are the Batman Animated series, (even then at its core it's about a guy in spandex fighting an evil clown,) and futurama weirdly enough. Not all of them mind, but they frequently have episodes that are focused around some serious issue and end in some sort of sort of way where the characters cope with or overcome it. Granted the road there is usually handled in an immature way as it's a comedy show and I don't think that futurama should really ever try to take itself seriously anyways, but strangely I think it qualifies.

 

[Queen Michael]

First of all, there's no reason to use a capital "c" in "cartoons". Secondly, it's because when it comes right down to it there are very few cartoons with adult subject matter. Or to put it differently, can you name any cartoons about adults that aren't adventure stories? What I mean is that I don't know any cartoons that are like a serious Bergman movie or a Woody Allen movie. I think that's the reason; even the cartoons that are for adults include stuf thatt kids like, like action, jokes or horror. When was the last time you saw a deep psychological drama in cartoon form?

Oh, and one more thing - I want to be proven wrong.

 

[WaysideMaze]

Rocko's modern life, anyone?

 

[Vrex360]

For me I think the best example of a cartoon that handles very serious subject matters in a very mature, artistic and intellectually and emotionally engaging way has to be Persepolis.
It's a French black and white animated movie about an Iranian girl who lives through various wars and conflicts in her home country as well as various social changes as well as the general oppression that comes with being a woman in Iran.
She also undergoes cultural identity issues when she goes to Paris to study abroad and is constantly being pushed back and forth as her life keeps going in strange and unexpected places.

It's a very interesting film, though it lacks almost any comedic aspects it's very rare (but very welcome) to see an animated cartoon tackle really important political and social issues and make them feel so personal and invoking so much emotion.
Seriously, Persepolis is probably one of the best animated movies ever made and certainly hits home the idea that just because something is drawn, doesn't mean it has to be wacky silly fun.

 

[Sir Shockwave]

You'd be surprised - the more digging around you do, the more mature most Cartoons can be. For some examples of Artists and Studios, take a look at Don Bluth (of Secret of NIMH fame), Mainframe Entertainment (of ReBoot/Beast Wars fame) and for individual shows, anything out of the DCAU can be surprisingly mature (yes, even Superman:TAS had it's moments), and for a more modern example I'd point you at Transformers Prime (darkest Transformers show since Beast Wars rolled around).