Cartoons ruined by executive meddling.

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Nantucket_v1legacy

acting on my best behaviour
Mar 6, 2012
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... My young nephew took the news lighter than you and he's five.
Cartoons come and ago.

Think about the poor kids from the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon - they never even got home because it got cancelled.
 

Mr.Mattress

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Jul 17, 2009
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Did you know that I had a show end by Executive Meddling? Funny story, around late 2011 I started work on an Animated version of "Candle Cove". I had everything together (Actors, Scripts, a guy to do the Music, I even got a song from another Musician to be the Credit song), and had the first 2 scenes completely finished. Then my Music guy told me the guy who made the original story, Kris Straub, did not like the idea of someone making a show from his work. Upon contacting him myself, he told me he didn't want me to do it. So, by Mid-2012 Candle Cove was dead. You can still see the first scene here:


It taught me a valuable lesson however; don't assume that things made on the internet are free use. Even Creepypasta's apparently aren't...
 

PissOffRoth

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Jun 29, 2010
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rawfy said:
I don't really know, but I have my suspicions....

Adventure Time Season 3 onwards. I had a blast with the 1st 2 seasons, really solid entertainment. Then it just started losing it's charm..It kind of just devolved into something that I can't enjoy as my adult self.

I imagine it has more to do with losing steam but it's possible that executive meddling could have contributed.
That kind of show, being as whimsical and near-nonsensical as it is, could never last. I don't think the show changed fundamentally. As you said, it likely just lost steam. Pretty sad, considering it started out being so hilariously random and fresh.
 

BarelyAudible

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Gentlemen, let's flip the topic on its head:

How many times have we benefited from executive meddling? We heard X would happen, but Y happened instead and we complain. But how many times did meddling turn out great?

Cartoon Network demanded a human sidekick for Transfomers Animated. We got Sari, one of the best eye-level characters with an interesting backstory to boot.

Fox and Warner Bros. would change the more violent parts of Batman, and we got more dynamic, artistic shots of whoever plummeting to their deaths.

Fox also kept Saban from killing off Rita Repulsa at the end of Power Rangers In Space, and that paid off a decade later with the Mystic Mother.

Plus, where would Scooby Doo be without meddling?


Think abou the mother of shows where the execs should have stepped in: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. The rabid, devoted fans gave the producers the courage to pull off a number of "wouldn't it be cool if" moments like:

1. Airing the first season out of order.
2. Not announcing the second season and hiding it within reruns of the first.

and of course,

3. Endless Eight.

Yeah, I don't think we'd complain about executive meddling there.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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Wouldn't it make for a much shorter list to list the cartoons that weren't ruined by executive meddling?
 

afroebob

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Oct 1, 2011
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lithium.jelly said:
I don't want to start an argument with this post, but I'm gonna say Alicorn Twilight. It might be too early to say for sure, but I am extremely concerned what this might do to season four.
You give them to much credit for how far they are willing to change the formula of a show whos target audience is 3-7 year old girls.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Therumancer said:
Hmmm, well I'd point out that you guys are missing an important point. A lot of the changes to these shows doubtlessly happen because YOU (adults) like the shows. It's an intentional security matter.

Originally there was a lot to be said for children's shows that could also appeal to an adult audience, Anime, especially when it picked up through the 90s got a lot of attention that way (when people pay $30 for a subtitled VHS producers take notice) and inspired the design of a lot of cartoon shows in the US. This lead to a lot of pretty popular properties being developed, and lead to a lot of money being spent as adult fans purchused stuff for their kids (uh huh).

The problem of course here is obvious, when you create situations where random adults and children mix in the same cosm it becomes pedo-bait. Something a predator can use to chat up a child and form that all-important initial connection when the parents/guardians are not around. Sometimes watching a random 40 year old discuss [insert show here] with an 8 year old can be cute, if a bit creepy, but othertimes it's hardly harmless, and people DO keep track of the techniques used by child predators.

Business started to adapt to this, official or otherwise. One thing you'll notice with video arcades at locations that still have them, especially BIG locations is that they are increasingly getting rid of video games that can be justified as appealing to a more adult audience, or having a long-time fan base. People had been trying to ban violent games for years without success, but now your seeing something similar voluntarily, generally when places that have become security conscious, or have otherwise had an "incident" in their past (molestation, or a near miss) not having those games makes it so creepy adults don't have an excuse to hang out in arcades, popping in an occasional corner, and watching the kids, looking for oppertunities.

Back when I worked casino security there was a dance over this with "decent" cross-age machines waffling back and forth based on security concerns and what was making money. It should also be noted that adults wearing mechandise or logos for populat children's television shows warrent special attention, someone to keep an eye on, especially if they gravitate towards places where kids are left unattended (which should never happen, but does anyway). There are exceptions of course, popular super heroes like Marvel and DC characters for example, but basically if you see a 40 year old due wearing a My Little Pony T-shirt trying to chat up little girls in a video arcade, that's not a good thing.

At any rate given all the back and forth about this kind of issue, I suspect the number of children's shows going "old school" and aiming for a child-only audience, removing a lot of the depth, referances, and humor that would attract adult fans is intentional. We're not talking about the kinds of trends you make laws about, but basically nobody wants to have their product lumped in on semi-official security/police watch lists or become known for being used as pedo bait.

I'm not saying this is definatly the reasons, or the only reasons, just that it's an angle you might want to think of because it's come up before when I worked security. One of those things where you know "we can't officially tell you some dude wearing a Spongebob or Invader Zim T-shirt is a creep, but in context if you see someone wearing one around the arcade, that's one of the guys you probably want to keep a paticular eye on... along with everyone else in general of course". The point basically being that anything that can be used to form a bridge to a child, get short term trust, or act as a lure can become a risk, and pedos are VERY good at it. "I'm not a stranger, we both like My Little Pony, and look I've got episodes that play right here on my kindle, let's head over into that stairwell where it's quiet and you can hear and I'll show you a couple of episodes you probably haven't seen yet..."
Funny you should say that. I was working my job, and I rang up a mother and her young kid had a CM Punk T-Shirt on and for a moment I wanted to be all "Right on kid!"

And then I thought it might make things weird so I didn't.

I really don't think businesses care about the security concerns, I think it's more of context of like Invader Zim the majority of it's audience was Adults which for a childrens network made it next to impossible to sell advertising on.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Mr.Mattress said:
Did you know that I had a show end by Executive Meddling? Funny story, around late 2011 I started work on an Animated version of "Candle Cove". I had everything together (Actors, Scripts, a guy to do the Music, I even got a song from another Musician to be the Credit song), and had the first 2 scenes completely finished. Then my Music guy told me the guy who made the original story, Kris Straub, did not like the idea of someone making a show from his work. Upon contacting him myself, he told me he didn't want me to do it. So, by Mid-2012 Candle Cove was dead. You can still see the first scene here:


It taught me a valuable lesson however; don't assume that things made on the internet are free use. Even Creepypasta's apparently aren't...
Unless he took the time to copyright the work, you could do it, I believe
 

Mr.Mattress

Level 2 Lumberjack
Jul 17, 2009
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SaneAmongInsane said:
Mr.Mattress said:
Unless he took the time to copyright the work, you could do it, I believe
He said in his email that he had either gotten the work copyrighted or that he was in the process of doing so. Regardless, I wouldn't want to do it if the original creator didn't want me to do it. That wouldn't be right.
 

RaikuFA

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Jun 12, 2009
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Cheesus Crust said:
Xpwn3ntial said:
Since it's only cartoons, Big O.

Adult Swim shut down continued operations (and any hope of season 3) because they don't like Japanese cartoons, even though it paid off financially. If it didn't pay off financially, I'd understand. But hacking something because you don't like it? Fuck you, man.
That is sick. What kind of a prick would do such a thing?Same pricks who will listen to only what Tim and Eric want. Which is why we have crap like The Eric Andre Show, Loiter Squad and stuff like Stroker and Hoop and Lucy Daughter of the Devil get canned.
 

FirebirdXR

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Feb 22, 2011
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PissOffRoth said:
rawfy said:
I don't really know, but I have my suspicions....

Adventure Time Season 3 onwards. I had a blast with the 1st 2 seasons, really solid entertainment. Then it just started losing it's charm..It kind of just devolved into something that I can't enjoy as my adult self.

I imagine it has more to do with losing steam but it's possible that executive meddling could have contributed.
That kind of show, being as whimsical and near-nonsensical as it is, could never last. I don't think the show changed fundamentally. As you said, it likely just lost steam. Pretty sad, considering it started out being so hilariously random and fresh.
Executive meddling?
Quite the opposite, really. The way I heard it was that it started the way it did was mostly to appeal to the executives, and they would leave any world building and character development when the show took off and continued progressively as seasons went on.

This, in turn, worked to Pen Ward's (the creator) other goal of making the show 'grow up' along with its target audience (kids, of course), as well as the protagonist Finn (who will turn 15 soon, I think), and work into making them like more deeper storylines. Quite an amusing experiment really...

Of course, the show is going in another direction because of this. Some liked it more, others not....

I will say in its defense, I liked Season 4 tons. 'Card Wars' is my favorite episode of the whole show. While the current one is a mixed bag, the most recent episode with the Flame Princess had me in a stitch (and quite a cute ep., IMO).

If you want to know that the writers still have that same spark. Then go watch Pen Ward's other show, Bravest Warriors, made by the same people. Since it's free and on Youtube.


There's also a rumor that this show's universe might be tied with Adventure Time's, but I guess we'll wait and see how that goes...

----

Also,
Anything that Nicklodeon airs for way too long that's not Avatar has been ruined and I heard some faults on Avatar's Korra can be blamed on them.

One of 'em? Making it a dozen episodes long and far too rushed with a deus ex machina ending. I hate those!

Others include cancelling; Invader Zim and El Tigre: The Adventures of Manny Rivera.

----

Disney with the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Tron.
But the two former may be because of Marvel.

----

Any action show the CN airs; Megas XLR, Samurai Jack, Symbionic Titan, Thundercats, a lot of DC animations than I can list, and of course, anime.
 

Cheesus Crust

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Mar 8, 2012
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Terminate421 said:
Please tell me you watched this:

I didn't need to. I was browsing through your post and a friend was looking over my shoulder and saw your post and told me everything I needed to know. I find it weirdly hilarious that they talked about AIDS.
 

Cheesus Crust

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Mar 8, 2012
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canadamus_prime said:
Wouldn't it make for a much shorter list to list the cartoons that weren't ruined by executive meddling?
Sometimes when executives meddle there's a big chance that the show is really crap. This is about those great shows that get ruined because of executives. Just wondering what else out there is great but got tossed under the bus.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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Cheesus Crust said:
canadamus_prime said:
Wouldn't it make for a much shorter list to list the cartoons that weren't ruined by executive meddling?
Sometimes when executives meddle there's a big chance that the show is really crap. This is about those great shows that get ruined because of executives. Just wondering what else out there is great but got tossed under the bus.
Yeah, I knew that. I still think it'd make a much shorter list to list the ones that weren't ruined by executive interference.
 

Cheesus Crust

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Mar 8, 2012
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Nantucket said:
... My young nephew took the news lighter than you and he's five.
Cartoons come and ago.

Think about the poor kids from the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon - they never even got home because it got cancelled.
Guess we don't like the show in the same way.

FirebirdXR said:
Disney with the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Tron.
But the two former may be because of Marvel.
What do you mean may be because of Marvel? Can you elaborate on that?
 

Lugbzurg

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Mar 4, 2012
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I see it's been mentioned already, but not from what I've examined.

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. And not just because of "Alicorn Twilight". (I call her "Succubus Twilight")

I loved this show because, when Lauren Faust was running it, the series was very unconventional. It took slice of life fantasy stories about friendship and stuff while playing it straight. It was about the characters, their relationships with one another, their own development, and the challenges they faced. The stories were very well-written. However, lately, it's been less about that and more about "what cheap gimmick can we throw at them this time"?

Twilight Sparkle's succubus transformation makes absolutely no sense. Allow me to explain.

She has done nothing to show for any skill in ruling a nation or any portion of land populated by other intelligent lifeforms. She has not shown herself to have skills remotely relevant to any form of monarchy. Rather, her skills are more fitted to that of a knight. That would have made a lot more sense. Also, why didn't Shining Armor get the alicorn minarch position? He's married to one of them, making him a prince, and he's already been a captain of the royal guard. He's shown himself to be ready to take on such a position. What's more is that, despite what some people are trying to excuse, the transformation is not character development. Character development was when Rainbow Dash got to try out for the Wonderbolts and came across Lightning Dust, who was much like how Dash was in Season 1, and... everything that happened there. Character development was when Rarity began to bring Sweetie Belle into her life more. Character development is Dan finally starting to get along with Elise and saying "thank you" for the first time. Turning into an alicorn is not character development. It's a status update.

There were some other things that made no sense in the latest episode. Like how is mixing up the elements supposed to switch up what Twilight's friends' talents are supposed to be? And why did the entire town suddenly get amnesia? Case in point... "What's this? A unicorn (Rarity) with absolutely no experience or ability whatsoever in weather control? Let's make her captain of the weather team! What could possibly go wrong?" The five of them moved out of their own homes and decided to change their careers on a whim simply because some tattoos of theirs got screwed up by complete accident. That's stupid.

Another example would be Cartoon Network's Sym-Bionic Titan. It was cancelled because it wasn't selling enough childrens' toys. It's not a childrens' show!

And how about Nickelodeon's Invader Zim, anyone? Wasn't it cancelled because of the whole "Bloody GIR" thing? So re-do the shot! The "bad future" scene was re-done in the "Skool Fundraiser" episode. So why not a simple shot? And if it was because GIR looked like he had blood on him, then explain stuff like iCarly which had at least one scene where someone was just spraying blood. In fact... explain a lot of iCarly. It's loaded with far more inappropriate things than Invader Zim ever was.
 

Estranged180

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Mar 30, 2011
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Cartoons f*cked up by executive nitwits? There is a classic example, and it's one that a lot of younger people will never get to see as a result. Looney Tunes (the originals). Not the lame sh*t they have now, but the old school Looney Tunes, that'd have Bugs Bunny dressed in drag, or two guys shipwrecked on a deserted island, when something explodes in their face, and turns their faces black (i.e. blackface). You will also (if you're old enough) remember Daffy Duck blowing himself up onstage, only to have that one short hacked up so it didn't happen at all. You will also not see, now, or ever more, Speedy Gonzales, and his cousin, Slowpoke. The reason for that one was because it was 'too racial'. Now, who's responsible for all this editing, removing from networks, and banning?

Turner Broadcasting, and more specifically, Ted Turner himself. How's that for a cartoon that got boned by a corporation?

It took me awhile to find them, but here they are... some of the things I mentioned.


Most of these were pulled off the air (and eventually, even June Bugs was screwed with) because someone somewhere thought they were damaging to kids. If Tom & Jerry is still on the air, beating the crap out of each other (Spike included), why can we not have Looney Tunes the way they were originally aired?

Oh, anything by 4Kids... they f*ck everything up.

That's all I've got for now. When I find more, I'll either post, or update.
 

infohippie

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EternalNothingness said:
lithium.jelly said:
I don't want to start an argument with this post, but I'm gonna say Alicorn Twilight. It might be too early to say for sure, but I am extremely concerned what this might do to season four.
I once saw a leaked story-board image of Spike calling Twilight "impossible to live with" ever since she received wings.


That means it might be like three of those episodes of Pound Puppies (including King of the Heap, Dog on a Wire, and Rebel Without a Collar), where the main-character realizes that the new life she earned is no replacement for the old life she once spent with her friends.

For those of you who don't know when I referenced Pound Puppies, three of the aforementioned episodes tackled characters choosing between their friends and whatever new lives they started developing for themselves. In King of the Heap, Niblet became the new ruler of a trash-dump, but became so consumed by power that he almost forgets his friends. In Dog on a Wire, Strudel would also nearly do the same thing, except this time with the circus. Lastly, in Rebel Without a Collar, Cookie would almost abandon her fellow Pound Puppies just to be with a coyote named Fang.

If three of the main-characters of Pound Puppies once went through giving up their friends and old lives for new ones, only to return later on, then I'm sure Twilight will realize how royalty is no replacement for friends as well, as implied in that story-board image.

But other than that, yeah, I agree. Princess Twilicorn wreaks of executive meddling, and I hope the writers find a way to reverse that change for the S4 premiere.
I kinda doubt it, really, but if it were to go that way I would not be unhappy. I am willing to put up with an episode or two of contrived crap if it means we get rid of those wings.
 

Zeke63

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Jul 10, 2012
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Cheesus Crust said:
Zeke63 said:
Your enthusiasm is interesting. Cause i though korra really excellled due to its concision. I know a lot of fans think it was underdeveloped but i think the opposite. Its the same reson these last episodes of young justice are so intense and good. Im actually worried korra will suffer from extension
Interesting input. I myself liked that conciseness that you're talking about but some of the things just felt really rushed. Okay just to clarify, the thing that annoyed me the most about the very quick pacing of the story was the romantic plot tumor. Its like one minute he has a girlfriend the next its head over heels for Korra. I do like how each episode of the show managed to move several plot threads forward whilst moving the main plot forward. Each episode really had an impact on the story's overall progression.

I don't think we need to be afraid of over extending though. From what I saw on wiki the next few season will only be a few episodes longer. Hopefully they hit the golden mean in terms of conciseness and story devoplment.
I can see how one could have issue with the romantic sub plot, i know a lot that do. But i think thats because people just see it as angst and the like, not getting at the deeper meaning. Korra in a sense defies gender roles and challenges Mako's sense of masculinity and self due to her greatness/being the avatar despite being a woman. This idea is even demonstrated in her body not being curvy, whereas asumi appears the archtypical patriarchal beauty ie super curvy, white, long hair, rich etc. In this sense the romance is really gender aware, as is the show in general, and so i really enjoy it. So Makos being torn between them is like someone being torn between normative, constructed desires and their actual more nuanced ones liberated from convention. Hope there is more stuff like this, though not necessarily the love triangle again