Casting Captain Marvel

[Vykrel]

I didn't get that feeling with Mystique. Romijn's Mystique was quiet, but she also felt coy and playful in a way that was aware of the sensuality of a woman walking around naked all the time.

not really a feeling. what you are talking about are the fight scenes and non-talking moments. go back and watch her dialogue. youll find it is delivered with absolutely zero emotion, as per Singer's direction. except for when she is hissing at people in an exaggerated manner. as poor a job as Ratner did overall with the third film, he allowed Romijn to show more emotion in her final scene than in the previous two films combined.

Lawrence's Mystique just feels off, like all the time she is in front of the camera, she is having an internal monologue, possibly either snearing at her lines, trying her hardest to react seriously to a prop in a green screen, or cursing at her agent for having to do yet another of those movies.

that is projection, man. suggesting that you know what performer might have been thinking about during their performance is not a fair critique.

I could buy Romijn's character as someone whose main skill is to manipulate and confuse others with her power, but if what we saw was Lawrence's version of that, I can't buy it.

that is not what we saw with Lawrence's version. remember, she is playing the young and less confident version of Mystique. you are comparing the two as if they are exactly the same, which they are not. people change over the course of forty years.

but I think she gets typecast as the stoic young badass (it didn't help to differentiate her that in the latest movies, Mystique is some kind of freedom fighters symbol, with posters and nicknames included; and no, comics Mystique has almost nothing in common with Katniss, the changes were made because Lawrence is, by far, their most prominent actress so it makes no sense relegating her to a henchman's role)

this was my first point. Lawrence was saddled with a mediocre role to begin with that would not test her abilities as a performer, then Singer came on and provided her with even worse direction, and her career trajectory resulted in the writing for her character being mishandled. like i was saying before, she has been stuck with a bad character, bad direction, and bad material. any actor stuck with these things is not going to be able to give a noteworthy performance; there is simply too much holding the performer back.

 

[MatParker116]

No love for Brie Larson?

 

[hermes]

Lawrence's Mystique just feels off, like all the time she is in front of the camera, she is having an internal monologue, possibly either snearing at her lines, trying her hardest to react seriously to a prop in a green screen, or cursing at her agent for having to do yet another of those movies.

that is projection, man. suggesting that you know what performer might have been thinking about during their performance is not a fair critique.

It probably is. Still not sure if it is a bad thing, though. The job of an actor is selling me on their performance. Projecting is a very normal thing in their craft, it implies empathy... and all she projected into me was boredom.

I could buy Romijn's character as someone whose main skill is to manipulate and confuse others with her power, but if what we saw was Lawrence's version of that, I can't buy it.

that is not what we saw with Lawrence's version. remember, she is playing the young and less confident version of Mystique. you are comparing the two as if they are exactly the same, which they are not. people change over the course of forty years.

That only works in First Class. Remember, there is a 10 year gap between each of the movies (not that the actors are selling it), so she has over twenty years of experience with her powers... If she was near 16 in the first movie, she should be over 30 years carrying those powers by the time of Apocalypse.

At the end of the day, I wasn't very invested in the way they portrait Mystique in the new movies. We could blame it to the director or the actress, but without some behind the scenes, it is hard to point out to someone. I am also not a fan of Lawrence as an actress, as I was not very impressed with the other movies I saw her in. She is decent, but not "4 times Oscar nominee almost in a row" good. And since we already established that she is often typecasted, I don't want Carol Danvers to be yet another Katniss/Mystique tough young girl.

 

[McMarbles]

Patrick Warburton.

...wait, wrong Captain Marvel.

 

[Vykrel]

That only works in First Class. Remember, there is a 10 year gap between each of the movies (not that the actors are selling it), so she has over twenty years of experience with her powers... If she was near 16 in the first movie, she should be over 30 years carrying those powers by the time of Apocalypse.

it isnt about "experience with powers", dude. that has nothing to do with personality. her character arc is as follows: 1. First Class Raven is a sheepish teenager (around 16) who is afraid to show her true self, but comes around at the end of the film. 2. Days of Future Past Raven/Mystique is a headstrong but emotionally compromized young woman (around 19) who has embraced her true self, although the events at the end of the film cause her to go back on this because... 3. Apocalypse Raven has become a disheartened young woman (around 22) in the wake of becoming the "face of mutantkind", which she does not wish to be, and as such, she goes back to hiding who she is (thats just the early parts of Apocalypse, as i wouldnt want to spoil the rest of her arc).

my point is that her powers and skill are irrelevant to who she is as a person. to put it another way: having thirty years of firearm experience isnt going to make you a killing machine. Mystique in the original films isnt a stone-faced, IDGAF bad-ass because she had all this time to practice her martial arts and shapeshifting abilities. she was like that because events that occurred in her life led to her becoming that person. she is a (biologically and mentally, roughly 27-year-old) woman who has spent over sixty years being persecuted by humans and poorly influenced by her mutant comrades, and it has left her cold and heartless. also, despite her long life, she does not behave like an old woman, just as Lawrence's version does not behave like a woman in her thirties or forties. she matures at a slower rate both biologically and mentally. this is important to remember.

Raven in the prequel trilogy and Mystique in the original trilogy are essentially two different people, but you are comparing them as if they are supposed to be the same. they are two vastly different versions of the same person, as each went down polar opposite paths in life.

 

[hermes]

That only works in First Class. Remember, there is a 10 year gap between each of the movies (not that the actors are selling it), so she has over twenty years of experience with her powers... If she was near 16 in the first movie, she should be over 30 years carrying those powers by the time of Apocalypse.

it isnt about "experience with powers", dude. that has nothing to do with personality. her character arc is as follows: 1. First Class Raven is a sheepish teenager (around 16) who is afraid to show her true self, but comes around at the end of the film. 2. Days of Future Past Raven/Mystique is a headstrong but emotionally compromized young woman (around 19) who has embraced her true self, although the events at the end of the film cause her to go back on this because... 3. Apocalypse Raven has become a disheartened young woman (around 22) in the wake of becoming the "face of mutantkind", which she does not wish to be, and as such, she goes back to hiding who she is (thats just the early parts of Apocalypse, as i wouldnt want to spoil the rest of her arc).

I am not going to continue arguing with you about it because, if her acting and her arc works for you, fine, more power to you. It just didn't for me. Besides, we are kidnapping the thread with an argument is not really relevant to it.

Just want to point out you might want to check the dates on your Raven arc... You make it sound like there is a 3 year gap between each movie, when the gap is supposed to be a lot bigger. First Class is set in the 60s, Days of Future Past is set in the 70s and Apocalypses is set in the 80s. If she starts as a sheepish 16 years old girl in the first movie, she would be in her mid twenties in the second and in her mid thirties in the third.

 

[Vykrel]

I am not going to continue arguing with you about it because, if her acting and her arc works for you, fine, more power to you. It just didn't for me. Besides, we are kidnapping the thread with an argument is not really relevant to it.

Just want to point out you might want to check the dates on your Raven arc... You make it sound like there is a 3 year gap between each movie, when the gap is supposed to be a lot bigger. First Class is set in the 60s, Days of Future Past is set in the 70s and Apocalypses is set in the 80s. If she starts as a sheepish 16 years old girl in the first movie, she would be in her mid twenties in the second and in her mid thirties in the third.

hermes, this is not an argument. i am attempting to explain things to you about a character in these films that you clearly are not understanding. i am explaining that Lawrence's Mystique and Romijn's Mystique are not performed the exact same way because they have different character arcs and thus would not behave the exact same way.

and it is weird that i also have to explain this next part to you again, but while First Class takes place in the early sixties, DoFP in the early seventies, and Apocalypse in the early eighties, MYSTIQUE DOES NOT AGE NORMALLY. this is made incredibly clear in the films. she biologically and mentally matures at about a third the rate of someone who matures normally. there is a ten year gap between each prequel FILM, but Raven has not AGED ten years between each film. she has not even aged ten years over the course of all three prequel films. you know how Wolverine ages extremely slowly in the movies and his personality doesnt change based on how much time he has lived, but rather from his personal experiences? same principal applies with Raven/Mystique. in body and mind, both characters are maturing very slowly, Wolverine significantly more slowly.

to reiterate, while Mystique is CHRONOLOGICALLY in her sixties when Romijn first played her, she was BIOLOGICALLY AND MENTALLY around twenty-seven. and again, this is not an argument. i am offering you a clear explanation of a character bio. everything im telling you is shown in the films. this is not my opinion. this is not my view. this is simply how the character is written.

also, i never said Lawrence's acting or arc in these films worked for me. neither did. my original point was that her performance and character arc are a result of the writing and direction. it was the writers' decision to make Mystique into a reluctant hero, and it was Bryan Singer's decision to make her largely emotionless. they deviated from the original plan in First Class, which was to see how a sweet young girl grew up to be a ruthless villain.