CCP Brings Real-World Trouble To EVE Online Monument Vandal - Update

Andy Chalk

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CCP Brings Real-World Trouble To EVE Online Monument Vandal - Update


CCP Games says that whoever defaced its real-world monument to EVE Online is going to face serious real-world consequences.

Update: CCP announced today that four individuals responsible for the vandalism of the EVE Online monument have been identified and dealt with. "Firstly, I'll say that the fact that the monument was vandalized is an insult to the entire community, not just to the individual whose name was directly targeted by the vandalism," CCP Falcon wrote in a message [https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4563308] posted earlier this afternoon. "Thankfully with the assistance of a number of members of the community, including some of those who were involved with the incident and other members of their own alliance, we've been able to make headway in identifying those responsible."

"Three individuals have been permanently removed from the EVE Community. A total of 7 EVE Online accounts, and 1 Dust 514 account belonging to them have been permanently banned. Another individual who was indirectly involved in the vandalism has received a 6 month ban from EVE Online on their sole registered account," he continued. "The four individuals involved are also blacklisted permanently from attending future Fanfest events."

Falcon said CCP considers the matter resolved "within the EVE universe," and that any further action that may be taken, including possible criminal charges and recovery of costs to repair the monument, will remain confidential. As he indicated previously, the identities of those involved will not be revealed.

Original story:

CCP remarkable creation [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/134141-EVE-Online-Player-Monument-Unveiled-Today] by any measure, and of course it only took a few days for someone to come along and mess it up.

"@Xenuria found your name and lost it again. #tweetfleet #eveonline #evefanfest," someone using the handle The_Real_Gevlon tweeted [https://twitter.com/The_Real_Gevlon/status/463002069989736448] on May 4. "You're welcome, everyone in eve!" An attached image shows a small segment of the monument, with Xenuria's name crudely scratched out.

CCP is notoriously tolerant of bad behavior in EVE Online, but is clearly far less willing to put up with this kind of guffola in real life. "This is damage of public property in the City of Reykjavik. The police have been informed, and investigation is ongoing," Community Manager "CCP Falcon" wrote in the EVE Online forums. "This is not a laughing matter, and will be dealt with as a criminal offence. We are currently reviewing security footage from a number of surrounding buildings."

"What's happened is absolutely disgusting. It's an insult to the entire community and is clearly the work a person who believes that behavior in a virtual world is a valid reason to make a real life personal attack on someone, and deface public property," he continued. "We will not tolerate this."

Falcon noted that players have already come forward with information about the crime, including some who are believed to be members of the culprit's alliance. He also said that if the vandal wishes to confess before the net closes, CCP will "take it as a gesture of good faith after an extremely stupid act," although how the admission will mitigate the circumstances - if at all - is left unsaid.

He also called on forum users to "stop pointing fingers and blaming people," and demanded that attacks on the victim in the forums come to an end as well. "It's not funny, it's not clever. Take your rumor mongering and personal attacks away from our community," he wrote. "If you choose not to, you'll be removed from the community, permanently. It's a simple as that. We will not tolerate victimization."

In a follow-up post [https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4559193#post4559193] made earlier today, Falcon said CCP had been visited by a couple of players who "basically confirmed everything for us" and that he hoped to be able to provide further details tomorrow, although he clarified that personal information would not be released. "There's no way in hell we'll release anyone's identities, character name, corporate affiliation or otherwise," he wrote. "We will not be part of a witch hunt."

Source: EVE Online [https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4552614#post4552614]


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Atmos Duality

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Angry players acting like assholes and damaging/destroying properly with real life value?
This is art imitating life.

Ugly subject in any case.
 

Slegiar Dryke

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to be fair, if what I've heard in the past is true, this is not the worst case of real world damage to get at a player (could swear I've heard a story about someone cutting a persons power to gank a Titan), but to do it to a public piece like this......I don't even follow Eve, but seriously, that's a douche move =/
 

Andy Chalk

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Slegiar Dryke said:
to be fair, if what I've heard in the past is true, this is not the worst case of real world damage to get at a player (could swear I've heard a story about someone cutting a persons power to gank a Titan)
That's true, it actually happened.

OT: Oh, you mean a game that openly promotes, and rewards players for, selfish behavior and general asshole-ism, has players that are selfish assholes? What a shock!

Sometimes, in pro wrestling, a heel is really effective because the wrestler is actually a jerk in real life. I figure it's the same basic idea here.
 

Scorpid

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King Whurdler said:
Slegiar Dryke said:
to be fair, if what I've heard in the past is true, this is not the worst case of real world damage to get at a player (could swear I've heard a story about someone cutting a persons power to gank a Titan)
That's true, it actually happened.

OT: Oh, you mean a game that openly promotes, and rewards players for, selfish behavior and general asshole-ism, has players that are selfish assholes? What a shock!

Sometimes, in pro wrestling, a heel is really effective because the wrestler is actually a jerk in real life. I figure it's the same basic idea here.
It's a monument to the entire community and on top of that completely unique in gaming. For a player to vandalize is more than just being a jerk.
 

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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Scorpid said:
King Whurdler said:
Slegiar Dryke said:
to be fair, if what I've heard in the past is true, this is not the worst case of real world damage to get at a player (could swear I've heard a story about someone cutting a persons power to gank a Titan)
That's true, it actually happened.

OT: Oh, you mean a game that openly promotes, and rewards players for, selfish behavior and general asshole-ism, has players that are selfish assholes? What a shock!

Sometimes, in pro wrestling, a heel is really effective because the wrestler is actually a jerk in real life. I figure it's the same basic idea here.
It's a monument to the entire community and on top of that completely unique in gaming. For a player to vandalize is more than just being a jerk.
I'm sorry if it looks like I'm excusing the action, because that's not what I want. It was an incredibly douchy move for someone to deface the first monument of its kind like this.

All I'm saying is that it should come of absolutely no one's surprise that a game, where the only way you can truly succeed is to be Gordon Gecko, has players that are genuine shit-heads.
 

mythgraven

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What I find truly interesting about this entire debacle, and indeed the last few debacles of EvE Online, is that it all basically boils down to "Do online shenanigans excuse real life repercussions?" Because both camps have extremely viable points to make.

But at the end of the day, lets not guild the lily. EvE players by and large enjoy what they do. Whether that is succeeding in running a multimillion ISK operation, or ruining a multimillion ISK operation, there is a certain pleasure to be had in planning and succeeding.

And for a large... VERY large chunk of the playerbase, that enjoyment is in the freedom to be literally the biggest asshole they can be. The stated mission goal of the largest player run cooperation is to ruin the game for their fellow players. While it can be argued that in-game actions shouldn't warrant out of game actions, dont pretend that there isnt a legion of players out there that will happily keep pushing the limit until they achieve that very state of "out of game" anger, that they claim has no basis on their gaming habits.

This is a matter of intention, not execution. There are more than a few EvE players who are downright gleeful to anger another person to that point.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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Oh hush, CCP. We all know it wouldn't be a proper tribute to EVE unless someone was trying to grief it.
 

Sniper Team 4

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I like this Falcon person. He is dropping the hammer hard and fast and is not putting up with anything and is calling on other people to grow up. This guy has the right idea I think. A good man to have in charge of something like this.
 

Laughing Man

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Oh hush, CCP. We all know it wouldn't be a proper tribute to EVE unless someone was trying to grief it.
I am shocked no one has started to camp round it specifically so they can kill any other players who come to look at it and then steal their wallet.
 

Baresark

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Weird news.... a crime was committed and the police are involved... weird what makes the news rounds around here sometimes.
 

Spartan448

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Oddly fitting that someone just tried to IRL gank something and is about to be got by the IRL CONCORD.

When they blow up his car, can I have its IRL loot?
 

Jadak

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I'm rather surprised they found the name. There's a lot of tiny names on that thing.
 

WindKnight

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Ok, pardon my ignorance, but is there any idea why that particular player was targeted in this vandalism?
 

Deathfish15

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Windknight said:
Ok, pardon my ignorance, but is there any idea why that particular player was targeted in this vandalism?

There's suspicion that he's one of the people behind a hack attack against the EVE servers back in 2012. He was a potential candidate for their Community Council thingy, but got booted out by CCP after blasting one of the developers who commented on the suspicions of him being a potential hacker.
 

Callate

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I dunno. I mean, yeah, it's petty, stupid, mean-spirited vandalism- and it's exactly the sort of behavior you'd expect from people who enthusiastically engage a game where duplicity and betrayal can lead to losses worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in real-world currency. I truly believe that the vast majority of people have solid barriers between real-world actions and in-game ones, but Eve Online seems to have intentionally worked to make such barriers pathologically thin.

If it turns out that Eve's brass can't, in fact, locate and punish the offender... this may be an unfortunate precedent.

I can understand the thrill that people get from playing Eve Online, but at the same time, I'm glad that I don't.
 

renegade7

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King Whurdler said:
Slegiar Dryke said:
to be fair, if what I've heard in the past is true, this is not the worst case of real world damage to get at a player (could swear I've heard a story about someone cutting a persons power to gank a Titan)
That's true, it actually happened.

OT: Oh, you mean a game that openly promotes, and rewards players for, selfish behavior and general asshole-ism, has players that are selfish assholes? What a shock!
The keyword there is "game". It's a game that people are ultimately playing for fun, saying that EVE Online "promotes" self-serving behavior (which isn't even strictly true) is basically the same as saying that an FPS promotes real life shooting. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people will be civil about the game to their fellow players when they're offline.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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and just like that this player just got more popular than his place on the monument could have gotten him in many years. what a PR tactic i smell here.


Spartan448 said:
Oddly fitting that someone just tried to IRL gank something and is about to be got by the IRL CONCORD.

When they blow up his car, can I have its IRL loot?
im not sure those metal scraps are refinable with your skills though.
 

shirkbot

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renegade7 said:
The keyword there is "game". It's a game that people are ultimately playing for fun, saying that EVE Online "promotes" self-serving behavior (which isn't even strictly true) is basically the same as saying that an FPS promotes real life shooting. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people will be civil about the game to their fellow players when they're offline.
Actually, I would be very interested to see research into how different types of games could influence behavior, as opposed to the focus on violence. It's not inconceivable that a game like EVE could promote self-serving behavior because such behavior is not inherently punished in the real world, as opposed to violence. But that's all speculation, and I doubt there will be any desire to research it for another decade or so.

OT: I just think it was daft to vandalize a public monument in a city of <150,000 people. It's not like finding the person is going to be rocket science, especially with the addition of Twitter information. The dumb and petty will remain so I guess.
 

Lono Shrugged

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mythgraven said:
What I find truly interesting about this entire debacle, and indeed the last few debacles of EvE Online, is that it all basically boils down to "Do online shenanigans excuse real life repercussions?" Because both camps have extremely viable points to make.

But at the end of the day, lets not guild the lily. EvE players by and large enjoy what they do. Whether that is succeeding in running a multimillion ISK operation, or ruining a multimillion ISK operation, there is a certain pleasure to be had in planning and succeeding.

And for a large... VERY large chunk of the playerbase, that enjoyment is in the freedom to be literally the biggest asshole they can be. The stated mission goal of the largest player run cooperation is to ruin the game for their fellow players. While it can be argued that in-game actions shouldn't warrant out of game actions, dont pretend that there isnt a legion of players out there that will happily keep pushing the limit until they achieve that very state of "out of game" anger, that they claim has no basis on their gaming habits.

This is a matter of intention, not execution. There are more than a few EvE players who are downright gleeful to anger another person to that point.

I don't play eve, but I take a great personal pride in being the biggest, back dealing dick I can be in multi player games. In real life I try my best to be kind and considerate. There is a difference between playing a game and real life. The people who mix them up really need a dash of perspective. I really could not care about the memorial to a video game. But people breaking laws and messing with people outside of the game is pretty shitty. It's a shame that a tangible symbol of togetherness in a new digital frontier decide to deface it within days, completely missing the point of it and confirming a lot of negative preconceptions people have about the community.
 

SecondPrize

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I don't condone this vandalism but I think the real lesson here that people need to walk away with (if don't be a dick is too hard) is that if you commit a crime, don't take video, photographs or talk about it on social networks.
 

Darkness665

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This is a surprise? Seriously, this company has based its entire fortunes on man's inhumanity to man playing out with monthly subscriptions. I love the irony of getting to tell CCP to HTFU since Growing The F Up has never been a corporate goal before.
 

tmande2nd

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Who knew that breeding a culture of vicious pirates and assholes like CCP does with EVE could result in this?
I mean its not like there are people in EVE who blow up any newbie just because they hate new comers.
Or troll people for weeks on end with some nasty stuff over and over again.

I mean if you create a fanbase were acting like this is allowed and encouraged stuff will happen.
Still though defacing a monument and posting it online is just stupid.
 

backster

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Honestly you make a game where you allow people to be jerks, griefers, abusers, liars, cheaters, stalkers, and torturers and then act so shocked that one of those precious customers might actually think that you support the same actions outside in the real world when it deals with your game. I play Eve Online and CCP should truly realize that they allow their customers to be all those nasty things in their sandbox it is going to be carried over to the real world.

I laughed when I heard this happened because really I could think of no one better for this to happen to than CCP and their monument. They puppet the lines of free to do what you want in an amazingly vast game but then turn around and allow others to come along and abuse the game mechanics to hassle and torment other paying customers just for the "lols". When that tormented player complains about being harassed and tormented CCP tells then that if they don't like it they could just quit and go to another game. I have experienced this a few times and seen it done to others and find it interesting that CCP seems to be working hard to create new games that link to EVE but don't support the same free abusive environment like Dust514 and the newest EVE: VALKYRIE. They realized that they will never break a million users as there aren't enough people interested in getting into a game where the most powerful of players are also the people most likely to abuse and torture others.

I would love to see CCP actually make a small change for a month, just a small tweak that would provide a hell of a lot of Lols to a large percentage of players. Make the games High security areas immune to targeting of other players unless you have declared war on their Corporation. I know I would enjoy the sight of all those griefers screaming when they sneak up to those players that are mining or ratting or missioning and can't carry out the "ganking for lOls" I know it would never happen but if it did for that month it would be awesome!
 

Thor Doomhammer

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Windknight said:
Ok, pardon my ignorance, but is there any idea why that particular player was targeted in this vandalism?
Xenuria is a notorious forum troll, with a couple of failed CSM election campaigns under his belt (one of which he was disqualified from due to some attacks against a staff member at CCP during his campaign and suspicions of his involvement in a DDOS attack against the EVE servers). Every time is see the dude in game it's at a trade hub spamming chat with scams and generally [email protected]*tting the place up. I don't condone anything leaking out from the game into the real world, but if you were taking bets before hand on who's name would be vandalised on that thing first, Xenuria would have been pretty high in the running.
 

evilnancyreagan

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Hahaha CCP spends years cultivating their pet into a monster and acts shocked when it turns around bites them.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Must have hated the guy, that whole thing are names mashed together. Must have spent ages searching for his name.
 

tangoprime

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SonOfVoorhees said:
Must have hated the guy, that whole thing are names mashed together. Must have spent ages searching for his name.
Actually, there's an app for that: http://eve.com/monument/name-finder/
(yay, found my name, lol)

toms said:
A lot of self-righteous assholes in the thread...
Anyway, it appears that those involved have been dealt with, account permabans hurt a lot more in EVE than other games.
Seriously. If anything, the escapist forums are full of more vitriol than I've ever run across in my political, financial, and pew pew dealings in Eve. The forums are a different story, of course, as those get pretty heated, but, y'know, they're forums. Eve is less a game full of evil monster douchebags, and more a playground/sandbox for political/corporate intrigue and dealing, playing the markets, and running a tight-knit, practiced, cohesive combat unit that relies on adaptation and inventiveness way more so than the twitch reflexes and "who has higher level gear" than any other game I've ever played.
 

shadowmagus

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So what I'm starting to take from this thread is because people act like douche lords in a video game, its expected that they are douche lords in the real world too, so CCP shouldn't be surprised by this?

No, since there are these things called "laws". Which hopefully these four individuals find out about very shortly.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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I find it utterly surprising and baffling that the same community which time and again has denied any correlation between violent videogames and violent behavior would now turn around and say that this vandalism was "inevitable" thanks to the cutthroat nature of CCP's video-game.
 

SecondPrize

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tangoprime said:
SonOfVoorhees said:
Must have hated the guy, that whole thing are names mashed together. Must have spent ages searching for his name.
Actually, there's an app for that: http://eve.com/monument/name-finder/
(yay, found my name, lol)

toms said:
A lot of self-righteous assholes in the thread...
Anyway, it appears that those involved have been dealt with, account permabans hurt a lot more in EVE than other games.
Seriously. If anything, the escapist forums are full of more vitriol than I've ever run across in my political, financial, and pew pew dealings in Eve. The forums are a different story, of course, as those get pretty heated, but, y'know, they're forums. Eve is less a game full of evil monster douchebags, and more a playground/sandbox for political/corporate intrigue and dealing, playing the markets, and running a tight-knit, practiced, cohesive combat unit that relies on adaptation and inventiveness way more so than the twitch reflexes and "who has higher level gear" than any other game I've ever played.
People just think it's personal when they get blown up or even scammed. 99 times out of 100 it isn't personal, it wasn't done out of malice and there were also several things you could have done to ensure that it didn't happen to you.
 

mythgraven

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Mar 9, 2010
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Lono Shrugged said:
mythgraven said:
What I find truly interesting about this entire debacle, and indeed the last few debacles of EvE Online, is that it all basically boils down to "Do online shenanigans excuse real life repercussions?" Because both camps have extremely viable points to make.

But at the end of the day, lets not guild the lily. EvE players by and large enjoy what they do. Whether that is succeeding in running a multimillion ISK operation, or ruining a multimillion ISK operation, there is a certain pleasure to be had in planning and succeeding.

And for a large... VERY large chunk of the playerbase, that enjoyment is in the freedom to be literally the biggest asshole they can be. The stated mission goal of the largest player run cooperation is to ruin the game for their fellow players. While it can be argued that in-game actions shouldn't warrant out of game actions, dont pretend that there isnt a legion of players out there that will happily keep pushing the limit until they achieve that very state of "out of game" anger, that they claim has no basis on their gaming habits.

This is a matter of intention, not execution. There are more than a few EvE players who are downright gleeful to anger another person to that point.

I don't play eve, but I take a great personal pride in being the biggest, back dealing dick I can be in multi player games. In real life I try my best to be kind and considerate. There is a difference between playing a game and real life. The people who mix them up really need a dash of perspective. I really could not care about the memorial to a video game. But people breaking laws and messing with people outside of the game is pretty shitty. It's a shame that a tangible symbol of togetherness in a new digital frontier decide to deface it within days, completely missing the point of it and confirming a lot of negative preconceptions people have about the community.

Im not exactly sure you understood my post, so Ill try to summarize.
EvE is not famous for what its players do in their real, saintly, humble existences. EvE is famous specifically for what its players do IN the game. There are players in EvE who will push the line on what is acceptable IN the game, specifically for the purpose of causing anger OUT of the game. Then those same players will cry foul when their "victims" cross the line, after being baited to do -specifically that-.

Everyone and their mother has said repeatedly how shitty and scummy and abhorrent it is that someone took an in game vendetta into the real world, but what is deafening in its silence, is the lack out confession that there are so many players who WANT that real life rage, and who will do anything, and everything in their power, to engender it.
(And then hide behind technicalities.)
 

Deathfish15

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Permanently banned accounts and blacklisted from the public event....


...um, no? Seriously hoping that a more legal consequence happens on this. Even if it's something like 200 hours of community service scrubbing graffiti off of train cars or something. These hooligans need to be taught a serious lesson not to deface PUBLIC PROPERTY and what is nothing more than a very unique piece of ART.
 

Smooth Operator

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SacremPyrobolum said:
I find it utterly surprising and baffling that the same community which time and again has denied any correlation between violent videogames and violent behavior would now turn around and say that this vandalism was "inevitable" thanks to the cutthroat nature of CCP's video-game.
Vandalism is not deemed violence, it's simply damaging property without permission.
Which is absolutely the EVE way, any "pro" player in the game knows to fuck with peoples real lives in order to get what they want and up until this point I've never seen CCP moderate anything.

I won't ever claim this gives anyone permission to vandalise, but when you train attack dogs don't be surprised when someone gets bitten.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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Mr.K. said:
SacremPyrobolum said:
I find it utterly surprising and baffling that the same community which time and again has denied any correlation between violent videogames and violent behavior would now turn around and say that this vandalism was "inevitable" thanks to the cutthroat nature of CCP's video-game.
Vandalism is not deemed violence, it's simply damaging property without permission.
Which is absolutely the EVE way, any "pro" player in the game knows to fuck with peoples real lives in order to get what they want and up until this point I've never seen CCP moderate anything.

I won't ever claim this gives anyone permission to vandalise, but when you train attack dogs don't be surprised when someone gets bitten.
So EVE trains vandals like Call of Duty trains school shooters, right?
 

Eve Charm

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I'm a little bit mind boggled over what more people want done to these people? one it's a digital item that I'm sure is on a back up somewhere cause two, if this could happen in their in game world it's half EVE's own fault in the first place. Aside from at most pay for someone to fix it in game, anything more is outright crazy. Don't forget the facts that 7 or so accounts were permabanned so I'm sure the people that did it, lost a decent amount of real life money also out of it, time served basically.
 

BaronIveagh

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You have to understand Eve. Picture a bag full of rabid wolverines on angel dust. That's Eve. Is it surprising that they do bad things?

The reason that we've not seeing criminal charges it it would require that their names be publicized, which CCP wants to avoid. For obvious reasons (see above).