Challenges to the Publishers and Developers

[VoidWanderer]

Recently I have been getting back into the classic fallout games. It made me wonder, given the success of X-Com enemy unknown, why arent there more classic games set to the isometric turnbased games on console. Can you imagine how big that could be.

 

[LaoJim]

Recently I have been getting back into the classic fallout games. It made me wonder, given the success of X-Com enemy unknown, why arent there more classic games set to the isometric turnbased games on console. Can you imagine how big that could be.

Could you provide me the sales data of those games?

Actually I think its an interesting question (the answer might well be involving sales data) to ask why there aren't more of these kinds of games on XBox Live given that 2D platformers are dime a dozen. Sometimes these games are more naturally played on PC (mouse is easier than controller, you need to be sitting close to the screen to read a lot of the text). There have been relatively few big turn based games on XBox (XCom and Civilization Revolutions) are the only ones that come immediately to mind. Personally I think they're under-represented and would love more of them and the control/display issues, while a genuine prolem, can be worked around.

 

[Keoul]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/08/npd-dishonored-sold-460k-in-october-xcom-hit-114k/

A year old article that's based on sales on the previous generation but it does go to show that people still prefer shooters over these strategy games.

So there's your answer, it doesn't sell as well.

 

[VoidWanderer]

I will look into the sales data then...

Once I get to my pc anyway

 

[VoidWanderer]

Total for xcom is a little under 600k, which seems to cover all systems. This is also for a TBS game, which seldom do well. But I still think a TBRPG could work, even if isometric.

I say bring em on, I won't even care if it is zombie based, just gimme gimme gimme!

That or Pokémon Snap 2 on the WiiU so I can care about that console.

 

[Keoul]

Wait, what?

Since when was Dishonored a shooter?

You are an assassin that has a gun and a crossbow which you use to shoot people and kill them.
Sure you can use a knife/sword/magic/whatever but it's pretty obvious why I called it shooter right? Just because it isn't exactly the same as COD and Battlefield doesn't mean it isn't a shooter.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/08/npd-dishonored-sold-460k-in-october-xcom-hit-114k/

A year old article that's based on sales on the previous generation but it does go to show that people still prefer shooters over these strategy games.

So there's your answer, it doesn't sell as well.

game A sold more than game B, therefore game B has no right to exist, all copies must be incinerated, the entire studio must be nuked from orbit with every developer inside, and the earth should be salted so that nothing will ever grow there again... or not

just because something doesnt sell the most doesnt mean it doesnt sell well, hell if we go by ars technica numbers, XCOM sold a very respectable 1.6 million units on PC alone, plus console players... well they are usually not interested in strategy games, that could be part of the reason why dishonored had an overall better performance, because according to ars technica, dishonored actually performed worse on PC than XCOM


also dishonored is a shooter in the same sense infamous is an RPG

 

[LaoJim]

game A sold more than game B, therefore game B has no right to exist, all copies must be incinerated, the entire studio must be nuked from orbit with every developer inside, and the earth should be salted so that nothing will ever grow there again... or not

Yeah, we don't often know either the full sales numbers or the size of the development budget for most games. Therefore its difficult to know how much profit games make. However my impression was that XCOM did well considering its budget and sales and now long enough has passed that I a little confused that others haven't jumped on this bandwagon. Someone writing on this site recently (Jim Sterling maybe?) was talking about how most publishers don't want to take on potentially profitable smaller-scale games and want to put all their eggs in the AAA mega-games.

 

[Keoul]

game A sold more than game B, therefore game B has no right to exist, all copies must be incinerated, the entire studio must be nuked from orbit with every developer inside, and the earth should be salted so that nothing will ever grow there again... or not

just because something doesnt sell the most doesnt mean it doesnt sell well, hell if we go by ars technica numbers, XCOM sold a very respectable 1.6 million units on PC alone, plus console players... well they are usually not interested in strategy games, that could be part of the reason why dishonored had an overall better performance, because according to ars technica, dishonored actually performed worse on PC than XCOM

Way to strawman and miss the point.
Game A sold more so people will make more games like Game A because they want to make money. The fact that they were released roughly at the same time and Dishonored got more sales on release just goes to show how much more popular Dishonored was.
And if you want to talk about lifetime sales Dishonored still did better except on PC which it only loses out by 0.10 million sales.

Spoiler: source

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=dishonored
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=xcom%3A+Enemy+Unknown&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

Doesn't matter if the game sells 'well' when they can use the time and resources to make a game that will sell much better.

Also where did you get your numbers from? It's different from VoidWanderer's numbers. I'm leaning towards yours being correct but I just want to be sure. I checked ars technica and couldn't find an article about Xcom sales figures, I'm probably just not looking in the right place though.

snip

also dishonored is a shooter in the same sense infamous is an RPG

God, you guys get hung up on on little word, so much so that you just completely go off the rails on the topic.

Call it whatever you like, action, adventure, I don't really care. The point is that it isn't the same genre as Xcom and it's doing better so people will make more games like it. You want me to admit I'm wrong with calling it a shooter fine. I'm wrong for calling it a shooter.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

game A sold more than game B, therefore game B has no right to exist, all copies must be incinerated, the entire studio must be nuked from orbit with every developer inside, and the earth should be salted so that nothing will ever grow there again... or not

just because something doesnt sell the most doesnt mean it doesnt sell well, hell if we go by ars technica numbers, XCOM sold a very respectable 1.6 million units on PC alone, plus console players... well they are usually not interested in strategy games, that could be part of the reason why dishonored had an overall better performance, because according to ars technica, dishonored actually performed worse on PC than XCOM

Way to strawman and miss the point.
Game A sold more so people will make more games like Game A because they want to make money. The fact that they were released roughly at the same time and Dishonored got more sales on release just goes to show how much more popular Dishonored was.
And if you want to talk about lifetime sales Dishonored still did better except on PC which it only loses out by 0.10 million sales.

Spoiler: source

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=dishonored
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=xcom%3A+Enemy+Unknown&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

Doesn't matter if the game sells 'well' when they can use the time and resources to make a game that will sell much better.

Also where did you get your numbers from? It's different from VoidWanderer's numbers. I'm leaning towards yours being correct but I just want to be sure. I checked ars technica and couldn't find an article about Xcom sales figures, I'm probably just not looking in the right place though.

snip

also dishonored is a shooter in the same sense infamous is an RPG

God, you guys get hung up on on little word, so much so that you just completely go off the rails on the topic.

Call it whatever you like, action, adventure, I don't really care. The point is that it isn't the same genre as Xcom and it's doing better so people will make more games like it. You want me to admit I'm wrong with calling it a shooter fine. I'm wrong for calling it a shooter.

you are using vgchartz for PC sales numbers... oh god my sides

you know they never take into account digital sales right? you know, the way MOST PC games are sold


oversaturating the market with A-like games isnt going to make your version of game A sell more, also making your game A-like doesnt garantee it will sell well, see the bureu: XCOM declassfied


in their race to the bottom to homogenize all games into a big grey blob of the same couple of genres, big publishers are ironically leaving a shit ton of cash just lying around, because some of them arent willing to make some money if they cant make ALL the money, so they decide to not make middle-sized projects with middle sized sales expectations

 

[Keoul]

you are using vgchartz for PC sales numbers... oh god my sides

you know they never take into account digital sales right? you know, the way MOST PC games are sold


oversaturating the market with A-like games isnt going to make your version of game A sell more, also making your game A-like doesnt garantee it will sell well, see the bureu: XCOM declassfied


in their race to the bottom to homogenize all games into a big grey blob of the same couple of genres, big publishers are ironically leaving a shit ton of cash just lying around, because some of them arent willing to make some money if they cant make ALL the money, so they decide to not make middle-sized projects with middle sized sales expectations

Dude I don't even care, I'm just using the first thing coming up from google. You got the sales figures for digital feel free to share, otherwise you're just asking me to take your word for it.

Yes because declassified didn't have bad press already before it's release. Just gunna ignore the huge hype and sales CoD and Battlefield gets every year right?

Yeah you're right on your last point, I don't really enjoy this but it's the way things are for triple-A games. If I feel like something different I just go get an indie game or something.

 

[Vault101]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/08/npd-dishonored-sold-460k-in-october-xcom-hit-114k/

A year old article that's based on sales on the previous generation but it does go to show that people still prefer shooters over these strategy games.

So there's your answer, it doesn't sell as well.

but it still sells...and there no reason to ignore a market,

its not like XCOM was a multiple million dollar budget project eather

 

[Keoul]

but it still sells...and there no reason to ignore a market,

its not like XCOM was a multiple million dollar budget project eather

You're right but I don't think big companies are going to be the one catering to these markets since it's just not as profitable as other markets. These games will come to consoles and stuff but I think it'll be made by indie companies more so than big Tripl-A making companies.

A guy on some forum estimate it cost them 12 million to make but that was just some guy on a forum[footnote]http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?137821-Firaxis-amp-XCOM-Sales-and-Longevity&p=1872906#post1872906[/footnote] using estimates so take from that what you want.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

you are using vgchartz for PC sales numbers... oh god my sides

you know they never take into account digital sales right? you know, the way MOST PC games are sold


oversaturating the market with A-like games isnt going to make your version of game A sell more, also making your game A-like doesnt garantee it will sell well, see the bureu: XCOM declassfied


in their race to the bottom to homogenize all games into a big grey blob of the same couple of genres, big publishers are ironically leaving a shit ton of cash just lying around, because some of them arent willing to make some money if they cant make ALL the money, so they decide to not make middle-sized projects with middle sized sales expectations

Dude I don't even care, I'm just using the first thing coming up from google. You got the sales figures for digital feel free to share, otherwise you're just asking me to take your word for it.

Yes because declassified didn't have bad press already before it's release. Just gunna ignore the huge hype and sales CoD and Battlefield gets every year right?

Yeah you're right on your last point, I don't really enjoy this but it's the way things are for triple-A games. If I feel like something different I just go get an indie game or something.

here

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/steam-gauge-addressing-your-questions-and-concerns/2/

according to ars technica their meansuring method is fairly accurate, with error margins that have never surpassed 20%

Yes because declassified didn't have bad press already before it's release. Just gunna ignore the huge hype and sales CoD and Battlefield gets every year right?

and call of duty doesnt get bad press?

regardless YES, ignore those numbers, because COD and Battlefield are the exception, not the rule

same thing with MOBAs, everyone and their cat is jumping into the MOBA bandwagon, ignoring the fact LoL and Dota 2 have already taken the Lion's share of the MOBA market