Characters who always have bad episodes.

BrawlMan

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Legend of Korra
  • Kai
  • Toph - Due to character derailment.
  • Suyin Beifong - Fuck this character!
  • Everyone in Season 2.
Inuyasha - Everyone!

Loud House
- Lynn Loud Jr.

Ed, Edd, n' Eddy - Sarah, Kevin, and the Kanker Sisters. The later seasons sorta fixed this by not having the Kankers being involved as much, but they are still annoying.

Rick and Morty - Rick and Beth. Especially in the 3rd and 4th season.
 

Hawki

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"Which characters always have bad episodes?" and "which characters writers can't get right?" are two different questions. I'll address the second (sort of):

-Athena (Battlestar Galactica, original, though there are mitigating circumstances)

-Lourdes & Lexi (Falling Skies, though the former's more a case of character assassination, the latter...well, the writers went on an acid trip in season 4, so there's that)

-Kalista (Firefly)

-Flynn Carsen (The Librarians, namely that they keep him off-camera for most of the time, even by season 4, which kind of negates the character arc he had over the previous three seasons)

-Link (The Legend of Zelda cartoon...every...single...episode...no, you are not excused!)

-Tex (Red vs. Blue, post-Blood Gulch Chronicles, arguably Caboose as well as things went on)

-Every game character in the RE movie series with the possible exception of Wesker (I said "possible!")

-Knuckles the Echidna (Sonic the Hedgehog from the 2010s onwards...note that I'm referring to the game version, since other versions can do their own thing (e.g. Sonic Boom) or actually did him justice again (e.g. Sonic IDW))

-Rucklin (Star Wars Resistance - the idea of someone who willingly joins the First Order is a nice one, but he's never fleshed out. Tam arguably doesn't do too well in season 2 either, but she's at least starting off from a conflicted place)

-Sarah Connor (Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles - I mean, they got nothing right, but we're talking about characters, so...)

-The entire regular cast of Chibnall-era Doctor Who (sorry, 13 isn't doing it for me, and nor are any of the companions)
 

SilentPony

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Im not sure that its that writers can't get him right, and more he's not meant to be a character that can be done right, but the Joker. Its always just non-sequiturs and Joss Wedon humor, or in the case of the Joker movie just the writer personally venting about how no one wants his fucking Hangover movies anymore. The closest anyone came to getting the Joker was the Dark Knight where he not only didn't have a set backstory, he didn't really have a goal other than fucking with Batman. He didn't want money, or power, or domination or to control Gotham, didn't have a snarky girlfriend to fawn over. He just wanted to fuck with Batman, almost in a sexual way, but more in just a troll way. And that's the key to the Joker, you're not meant to understand him. He's, by definition, not understandable to a sane mind.
The Animated Show was a very iconic and great Joker, but they made him too...sane. Like he had plans, plots, goals, he took breaks, went on vacation, actually cared about shit. The best episodes was just the Joker doing it for the lulz. Where there was no goal other than the action. The Joker should be a means and ends are the same thing.
 

BrawlMan

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The Animated Show was a very iconic and great Joker, but they made him too...sane. Like he had plans, plots, goals, he took breaks, went on vacation, actually cared about shit. The best episodes was just the Joker doing it for the lulz. Where there was no goal other than the action. The Joker should be a means and ends are the same thing.
I disagree in that regard. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker pretty much summed up his feelings on most things with this statement.


Beside, The Joker was always a petty asshole. That was the point. As much as I love The Dark Knight, they made a lot of his plans go off too well. All of the other Jokers were capable of making mistakes. The TDK versions mistakes were mostly "all according to plan/part of the plan".
 

SilentPony

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I disagree in that regard. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker pretty much summed up his feelings on most things with this statement.

Beside, The Joker was always a petty asshole. That was the point. As much as I love The Dark Knight, they made a lot of his plans go off too well. All of the other Jokers were capable of making mistakes. The TDK versions mistakes were mostly "all according to plan/part of the plan".
See I disagree with that version of the Joker. Batman's villains are always dark reflections of him. Two Face is his duel nature as Bruce Wayne and Batman, Poison Ivy is his desire to save the world, Penguin is his rich upbringing and wealthy status, Zasz is his murdered parents and rich childhood but turned evil, Mr. Freeze is his scientific mind trying to find a cure for something that can't be cured(in Batman's case crime, and Mr Freeze his wife's illness), the Riddler is his detective mind and ability to solve puzzles, and it goes on and on. The Joker was always meant to be the inverse of his sense of right and wrong, and his controlled nature. Joker is supposed to be uncontrol-able, a force of nature that doesn't know right from wrong. A Joker who is all "I have hopes and dreams and I don't like you Batman" gives him way too much structure, way too much humanity. Batman stopping, curing and saving the Joker is supposed to be his impossible task, but his iron-clad sense of justice won't let him kill the Joker, even if its the right thing to do. Giving the Joker redeemable qualities kinda undoes the un-redeemable aspect of his character.
 
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BrawlMan

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Joker is supposed to be uncontrol-able, a force of nature that doesn't know right from wrong.
I think you've missed the point. The Joker is that; he just shows a bit more emotion than one version.

. A Joker who is all "I have hopes and dreams and I don't like you Batman" gives him way too much structure, way too much humanity. Batman stopping, curing and saving the Joker is supposed to be his impossible task, but his iron-clad sense of justice won't let him kill the Joker, even if its the right thing to do. Giving the Joker redeemable qualities kinda undoes the un-redeemable aspect of his character.
Not really. I don't see it that way. The Joker is still dark reflection of Batman in th Animated series. At the end of the day, Batman cares about people despite those he pushed away. The Joker only has love for himself and no one else. Batman cares for order; all Joker cares about is chaos, regardless if it makes sense or not. The TDK version, may be a "force", but at the end of the day, all Nolan did was take the early characterization of The Joker from the 1940s and put them on the big screen. It was not easy, but was more than doable. A terrorist that announces plans that only makes sense to him or only finds it "funny". The Animated version still does that; especially in the early season, but not as much Which makes sense for that version any way. He had a petty obsession with Batman. It's implied the series, and out right stated in the BB Movie. All version of the Joker do. How much pettiness depends on the version, but there is no true or one way. That's what makes the Animated Series version just as effective or scary as the TDK version. Both have a mean streak of disproportionate retribution. Charlie Collins rings any bells? The Animated version stalked the man and threatened Collin's family, all because the man had the gall to curse him out on the road. The Joker used him for petty vengeance just to kill Commissioner Gordon. The TDK version gets mad for being called a "freak" (unless he's the one saying it. The insanity version of N-word priveleges) and is attention whore. Sure, more low key than the Animated version, Kevin Michael Richardson version, Nicholson, or Romero, but still an attention whore.
 

SilentPony

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Does the Joker even care about himself? Like sure he thinks he's right, crazy people don't know they're crazy, but self care? My read on the Joker was he was not only suicidal, he really wants to die as long as its funny and fucks with Batman. Isn't the whole point of the Killing Joke that Joker is trying to go so far Batman finally kills him? Even in the Dark Knight Joker tells Batman that in order to beat him he'll have to break his one rule, no killing. Its just that they pretended Batman killed Dent and the mobsters and cops, instead of him killing Joker.
I mean not that I think the Killing Joke is a well done story, it has its moments but ultimately Joker fails and at least the audience realizes that no, not everyone can be the Joker after a bad day, he's a uniquely crazy person. And an unreliable narrator.
And Charlie Collins to me is a great example of the Joker not done right. He cared about road rage? He wanted to teach someone a lesson? Joker should have either just shot and killed him and been done with it, or thrown a pie in his face and laughed. Both are equally viable responses from the Joker. Him stalking, going after a family, getting annoyed? That's too human. That's one step above Joker getting mad his take-out order is wrong.
Or worse, the Joker pays taxes....
 

BrawlMan

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Does the Joker even care about himself? Like sure he thinks he's right, crazy people don't know they're crazy, but self care? My read on the Joker was he was not only suicidal, he really wants to die as long as its funny and fucks with Batman. Isn't the whole point of the Killing Joke that Joker is trying to go so far Batman finally kills him? Even in the Dark Knight Joker tells Batman that in order to beat him he'll have to break his one rule, no killing. Its just that they pretended Batman killed Dent and the mobsters and cops, instead of him killing Joker.
Yes and no at the same time. He does not care as long as he gets the last laugh, if he corrupts Batman, or invoking He/She Who Fights Monster on said hero(es). And like I said before different versions. Does not make perfect nor the ultimate version of said character.

And Charlie Collins to me is a great example of the Joker not done right. He cared about road rage? He wanted to teach someone a lesson? Joker should have either just shot and killed him and been done with it, or thrown a pie in his face and laughed. Both are equally viable responses from the Joker. Him stalking, going after a family, getting annoyed? That's too human. That's one step above Joker getting mad his take-out order is wrong.
You're wrong, it's very in character for the Joker. No matter the version they do things because it's either fun, feel slighted (imaginary or not), part of the joke, or because he's bored. That is what makes the Joker terrifying no matter the version, but especially true the Animated version. People like that exist, who do horrible things, because they feel slighted (real or imaginary) or under petty reasons. Not to the extent of the Joker, but it still their. That is what makes scary and "human" at the same time. The Joker has always been a psychopathic manchild, since day one.

All Jokers do things on a petty whim or to make things more exciting. That is nothing new for the character. Even the TDK version changed his mind on a whim. Finding out Batman's true identity no longer interested him, and he ordered Coleman Reese to be executed within 60 minutes. When that did not happen, he blew up an entire hospital, because the guy did not die. Joker was done right in the animated version, you just throw too much credit to the TDK Joker. What was done was already there; just done in an interesting and different manner. Your idea of the Joker is too narrow and a one track mind. You're not looking at the full picture.
 
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Gordon_4

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Im not sure that its that writers can't get him right, and more he's not meant to be a character that can be done right, but the Joker. Its always just non-sequiturs and Joss Wedon humor, or in the case of the Joker movie just the writer personally venting about how no one wants his fucking Hangover movies anymore. The closest anyone came to getting the Joker was the Dark Knight where he not only didn't have a set backstory, he didn't really have a goal other than fucking with Batman. He didn't want money, or power, or domination or to control Gotham, didn't have a snarky girlfriend to fawn over. He just wanted to fuck with Batman, almost in a sexual way, but more in just a troll way. And that's the key to the Joker, you're not meant to understand him. He's, by definition, not understandable to a sane mind.
The Animated Show was a very iconic and great Joker, but they made him too...sane. Like he had plans, plots, goals, he took breaks, went on vacation, actually cared about shit. The best episodes was just the Joker doing it for the lulz. Where there was no goal other than the action. The Joker should be a means and ends are the same thing.
I think Joker's been a gangster with goals - even if they're sometimes alien to us - for a lot longer than he's been an edgelord psychopath who exists only to fuck with Batman. And frankly I'm done with Ledger and his interpretation of Joker; and Hamil's deserves to rest on its laurels at this point. I'd kind of like the Jolly Clown Prince of Crime back. So lets get someone who can do a decent impersonation of Cesar Romero and bring back a Joker that's actually funny.

-Kalista (Firefly)
Wait; I've been watching FIrefly all week so who the hell is this, or is there some other show called Firefly I'm unaware of?
 
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Knuckles the Echidna (Sonic the Hedgehog from the 2010s onwards...note that I'm referring to the game version, since other versions can do their own thing (e.g. Sonic Boom) or actually did him justice again (e.g. Sonic IDW))
Good news, Sonic Frontiers does him and Tails justice again. Sonic 2 (2022) does it right for all three of them, but that's a different version. Still a good thing though.

Anna Kyoyama (Shaman King) - due to being a annoying and abusive biatch we're supposed to like and feel sympathy for. She doesn't change much between either versions, which does not help either anime or the original manga.

Hao Asakura (Shaman King) - For similar reasons, but even I'm more so referring to the manga, and I'm going to assume the second anime adaptation. The first anime actually avoid this, but you don't get as much backstory about him. I consider that a good thing though, because the manga went way too far.
 

Hades

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I think Sephiroth is the big one with the writers seemingly in love with the far less interesting version of him that appeared after the original game.

Also Pierce in every Community season after 3.
 
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