Characters With Terrible Priorities

[Lonewolfm16]

I have to bring up Lelouch in the last episode(s) of Code Geass. Like what the flying fuck...

Spoiler

He literally wanders off from the final decisive battle, he turns and flies several miles out to sea to check on/save his little sister instead of y'know winning the war he's been fighting for god knows how many episodes?

His army was sieging the final capital building and their one tactical genius of a leader fucks off, leaving them without a response to the counterattack that hits them. They instantly fall apart without Zero there to lead them. Understandably so, because Zero singlehandedly raised and trained this army + military resources out of thin air without even using his Geass on them and they just accept everything he tells them to do without question.

Quite sure there's a scene that was just various people screaming "what are our orders?!" into their comms.

Sister complexes lose wars.

Ah well, at least he gets his act together in R2...

Agreed. I was hoping for some big epiphany, (spoilers) ;like "I can't keep sacrificing people for Nunnally. I love her, but I have to let her go. I will create a better world, not for her, but for everyone. I will end the war so that I never have to sacrifice lives ever again. I will defeat Brittania, not for my own selfish goals, but for the world. For the Black Knights!" but no, he keeps being a selfish idiot, and gets most of his friends captured or killed. Nice work Zero.

 

[Splitzi]

Fallout: New Vegas... The Brotherhood of Steel: Try to set off an unknown superweapon, get routed, hide in a hole while McNamara twiddles his thumbs with scouting missions. He's slowly killing off his Order since no new members can join. Maybe take the armor off, venture out and have people return with spouses, injecting new blood and sustaining the Order. The area of New Vegas they are in isn't defended by the NCR or any other factions. Take Goodsprings and the surrounding area. Become relevant again.

CAPTCHA: kiss me.... How when you've got all that power armor on???

 

[Easton Dark]

I have to bring up Lelouch in the last episode(s) of Code Geass. Like what the flying fuck...

Spoiler

He literally wanders off from the final decisive battle, he turns and flies several miles out to sea to check on/save his little sister instead of y'know winning the war he's been fighting for god knows how many episodes?

His army was sieging the final capital building and their one tactical genius of a leader fucks off, leaving them without a response to the counterattack that hits them. They instantly fall apart without Zero there to lead them. Understandably so, because Zero singlehandedly raised and trained this army + military resources out of thin air without even using his Geass on them and they just accept everything he tells them to do without question.

Quite sure there's a scene that was just various people screaming "what are our orders?!" into their comms.

Sister complexes lose wars.

Ah well, at least he gets his act together in R2...

Considering his entire motive was to make sure Nunnally would live happy and un-used for political purposes, and the plan involved staying hidden, I think it makes fine sense.

Spoiler

Her being discovered and re-positioned as a princess would be hella-awkward to the plan, as shown in R2, where he spends half of it trying to get her back.

The Black Knights had Todo, and I remember after re-watching it again two or three weeks ago, I have no idea how the Black Knights lost. That move he pulled with dismantling the settlement looked like it took out, oh... basically everything. All their tanks had to be gone, so many knightmares, and the Gawain just completely obliterated all the britannian air power with its hadron cannons.

I guess either Todo's a chump or Gilford's a super bad-ass.

Spoiler

I know that but... Just take the enemy base THEN help her. Dammit man! I mean I guess he thought they were ok on their own but still. 'S not cool.

Oh shit they lost their tanks. GG war over. Tanks are the most useful thing ever in the Code Geass universe...

I'm keeping my eye out for any tanks that actually get a shot in ever whenever I go back to CG. They just get instagibbed by your bog standard Knightmare every single time. Why not just cease making tanks and make even moar Knightmares? It's the same with helicopters but I suppose you can't have air support comprised of only Knightmares. That would be so inefficient to maintain and unnecessary as hell.

Gilford is totes the biggest badass you have ever seen. Todo is supposed to be this legendary general but... I don't think he does too much in general. Maybe he just gets overshadowed by Zero hogging the spotlight every time the Black Knights do anything ever.

Seriously, I think half of Zero's existance is to unleash Lulu's inner drama queen...

Well R2 is fucking awesome so I can't complain really. I like how they literally just ripped off the first episode of the first series for the start of season 2 but just styled it up. It's the exact same thing theme and plot wise but in a different setting and with a few different characters.

Y'know, Lulu laments his shit life, wins at chess, CC dies... All that jazz.

*loves talking about how awesome Code Geass' stupid is*

Spoiler

Aw cmon, Todo used tanks and won for a bit during the first war. Plus considering most of the black knight forces we saw were civilians on foot... And talk about air power composed only of knightmares, ala the final battle in episodes 23-25 of R2. It's so weird, only a year had passed with the only units able to fly being the Lancelot and the Gawain (and Jeremiah's flying orange). Now every cheap knightmare pilot's got a float unit, even Tamaki. Having the financial backing of half the world has to be nice for both sides.

I think Gilford fights... three times? Once in the mountains, then whooping the black knights, then helping Lelouch escape. You know what? He went toe-to-toe with Suzaku. Gilford's actually a super bad-ass. And as it turns out, Todo sucks pretty bad. Xingke for life, mofo.

And yeah R2 is awesome. It's awesome because shit happens. Things with huge meaning in the universe. Before re-watching, I thought shit happened in R1. But then the Mao episodes start, and things just stall. Man, fuck Mao.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

EDIT: Posted in wrong thread Ignore ME!

 

[Johanthemonster666]

General Shepherd; MW2. His psuedo-philosophical babbling before the final QTE fight left me speechless. "Wait...50,000 of your soldiers died, and you thought the best way to honor their memories was to bring the entire Russian army down on the heads of their families? Isn't that like raising drunk driving awareness by getting raging drunk and ramming as many people as possible?"

Possible Spoilers below

I have to say this and many video game antagonist characters (and in modern movies) all seem to suffer from the mustache-twirling "because I'm evil" or "I want glorious revenge for glorious revenge's sake" idiocy.

I say the motivations for Killian in Iron Man 3 fall into the above category, it's absolutely stupid. At least the Chitari and Loki wanted to seize a powerful artifact because they could control the galaxy and invade numerous dimensions/new worlds. Loki was promised Earth in exchange (evil but explainable).

Killian just pulls a Lex Luther, and makes the entire 'scheme' about making money even though he's already obscenely rich and powerful. Oh and he goes to great lengths to get back an girl he had the hots for years ago and rub it in Stark's face.

Oh yea, great motivation "Mwhaha, money, power, control (which I already have for the most part) and a trophy girlfriend stolen from a guy who stood me up on a rooftop 14 years ago!

 

[Silvanus]

Rick, in The Walking Dead.

"I've seen so much shit, and I need to protect my son from all the zombies! With this in mind, when I'm driving along in this post-apocalyptic world and I actually see another living human being, which is a rare fucking occurrence, I'll leave him right there, drive on by, leave him to die. Because I'm so damn grizzled, man, and I seemingly only have a sense of responsibility towards these certain few people I'm travelling with. Fuck anybody else who might need help in this zombie apocalypse".

Yep. Rick gives not a single shit about other people who need his help. I know it's meant to represent how suspicious he's become, and that he only feels he must protect his own group... but it makes him a fucking monster, not a hero.

 

[sylekage]

"Hello, my name is Commander Shephard, and I'm gonna get the obelisk of the seven hells from the fire planet Burndudesforfun, so your people can experience a tiny glimmer of hope before getting crushed by an ancient evil threatening to destroy a galaxy whose hopes and dreams lie in myself and a handful of mercenaries....

...and that's only after I probe for minerals and shit!"

Dammit Shephard, get it together!!

 

[Queen Michael]

Three words: The Dulcinea Effect.

"No matter what she's accused of doing or how mysterious her origins are, the hero will always be ready to fight to the death for any girl he met three seconds ago."

The funny thing is, in Don Quixote, where the name of this trope comes from, this behaviour is meant to be a sign of how hilariously crazy Don Quixote is. But lots of stories play it straight nowadays.

 

[NightmareExpress]

Yep. Rick gives not a single shit about other people who need his help. I know it's meant to represent how suspicious he's become, and that he only feels he must protect his own group... but it makes him a fucking monster, not a hero.

There's a difference between a protagonist and hero.
I don't think anybody is supposed to be a "hero" in the scumbag world of TWD.
With that said, I think his priorities are mostly fine given the situation. He's tried to be in large groups at several points in the novel and it never ends well. Ever. The series is the misanthrope's paradise, where everything is temporary at best and you don't want to be around the only force more dangerous than zombies; people with varying motives and weaponry.

I don't even like that franchise, but I think his priorities are fine given the state of the world and the writing.
What might work in the real world is just an impossibility in the mind of Robert Kirkman.

I'd like to nominate Jason Brody from FarCry 3. Actually, there's a lot of people to nominate from that game.
But alas, I don't want to spoil nobody.

 

[LetalisK]

Rick, in The Walking Dead.

"I've seen so much shit, and I need to protect my son from all the zombies! With this in mind, when I'm driving along in this post-apocalyptic world and I actually see another living human being, which is a rare fucking occurrence, I'll leave him right there, drive on by, leave him to die. Because I'm so damn grizzled, man, and I seemingly only have a sense of responsibility towards these certain few people I'm travelling with. Fuck anybody else who might need help in this zombie apocalypse".

Yep. Rick gives not a single shit about other people who need his help. I know it's meant to represent how suspicious he's become, and that he only feels he must protect his own group... but it makes him a fucking monster, not a hero.

I daresay that might be part of the point. I find it interesting that he's basically becoming Shane. Except even nuttier.

 

[Kingjackl]

Fallout: New Vegas... The Brotherhood of Steel: Try to set off an unknown superweapon, get routed, hide in a hole while McNamara twiddles his thumbs with scouting missions. He's slowly killing off his Order since no new members can join. Maybe take the armor off, venture out and have people return with spouses, injecting new blood and sustaining the Order. The area of New Vegas they are in isn't defended by the NCR or any other factions. Take Goodsprings and the surrounding area. Become relevant again.

CAPTCHA: kiss me.... How when you've got all that power armor on???

Add to that: one of your number is actively trying to get you out of your little rut, so what do you do? Send her out into the wastes to get her away from you for as long as it takes, dismiss her when she comes back with legitimate proof, then send a bunch of dudes to kill her and all her friends after she finally gives up and leaves.

Yeah, it's very difficult to sympathise with those guys. I have yet to complete a New Vegas playthrough that doesn't end with a big crater where the Hidden Bunker used to be.

Also from New Vegas: Dean Domino. It would take too long for me to describe his issues in detail, but suffice to say the least of them is attempting to murder his most reliable ally purely because they made him look bad.

 

[Johanthemonster666]

I should probably add Goku to the list (when he's not being martial arts, super alien Jesus...saving the world and all).
He's a deadbeat dad, always jumps at the chance to flee from his family, and purposeful does not return (many times) when he has the chance (seriously how do you tell Shenlong after he's been sent to retrieve you "Hey, could you tell them I don't want to be wished back? Kay Thanks".) As I kid I found him charming, as an adult it's hard to relate.

 

[bojackx]

I honestly can't believe no-one has said Nathan Drake yet. Not only does he value searching for ancient treasures above all else, he never gives a satisfactory answer for doing so; guy risks his life for no apparent reason other than to risk his life by going after shiny things in dangerous places.

 

[Silvanus]

There's a difference between a protagonist and hero.
I don't think anybody is supposed to be a "hero" in the scumbag world of TWD.
With that said, I think his priorities are mostly fine given the situation. He's tried to be in large groups at several points in the novel and it never ends well. Ever. The series is the misanthrope's paradise, where everything is temporary at best and you don't want to be around the only force more dangerous than zombies; people with varying motives and weaponry.

I don't even like that franchise, but I think his priorities are fine given the state of the world and the writing.
What might work in the real world is just an impossibility in the mind of Robert Kirkman.

Perhaps it's a different kettle of fish in the comics, but it certainly seemed the show was portraying him as a character worthy of our support, at the very least. I'll retract the "hero" comment, but he still fits the "terrible priorities" category, for me.

I daresay that might be part of the point. I find it interesting that he's basically becoming Shane. Except even nuttier.

A good point-- I'll be impressed with the show if there's some recognition (either from himself, or from the others) of what he's become.

Since the death of Dale, there's been no moral anchor; not even Carl, who's become just as insular as his dad. Perhaps this is why it's felt to me as if since Season 2, Rick's decisions have been portrayed as reasonable.

Maybe I'm wrong on the show's priorities.

 

[sageoftruth]

I should probably add Goku to the list (when he's not being martial arts, super alien Jesus...saving the world and all).
He's a deadbeat dad, always jumps at the chance to flee from his family, and purposeful does not return (many times) when he has the chance (seriously how do you tell Shenlong after he's been sent to retrieve you "Hey, could you tell them I don't want to be wished back? Kay Thanks".) As I kid I found him charming, as an adult it's hard to relate.

Then of course there's Vegeta who puts his pride before absolutely everything.

 

[cojo965]

I should probably add Goku to the list (when he's not being martial arts, super alien Jesus...saving the world and all).
He's a deadbeat dad, always jumps at the chance to flee from his family, and purposeful does not return (many times) when he has the chance (seriously how do you tell Shenlong after he's been sent to retrieve you "Hey, could you tell them I don't want to be wished back? Kay Thanks".) As I kid I found him charming, as an adult it's hard to relate.

Then of course there's Vegeta who puts his pride before absolutely everything.

You know despite that I still remember him being a better dad than Goku. Though I am just going on memory so I may be wrong there.

 

[mechalynx]

Aliens. I love this movie to bits and re-watch it at least once a year. Having said that, Burke, what the actual fuck?

An entire platoon of grizzled marines just got wasted and nobody likes you very much. Why would infecting the only person why has survived an earlier encounter and a child with deadly aliens seem like a good idea?

Edit: forgot this wasn't supposed to be about villains. Then, ladies and gentlement, I present you Logan Thackeray from Guild Wars 2. Together with his friends he had a chance to stop one of the main dragons. All he had to do was to hold a choke point and tank while Snaff was busy casting his domination magic. But noooooooooo. Some stupid empress had to go and meddle and get herself caught. So what does this idiot do? He shuffles off to rescue her and leaves his party open wide and gets Snaff killed. The dragon escapes and decimates a huge chunk of the Krytan army. All because he has a hard on for some complete cow.

 

[Therumancer]

Keep in mind I'm not talking about, say, a villain's priorities, I'm talking about say Batman and the cure in Arkham City where he finds sorting out Hugo Strange more important that curing himself. Now with that clarified my example is Dennis Leary's character from The Amazing Spider-man. So let me get this straight, there is a giant humanoid lizard releasing a bioweapon on New York but your main goal is getting the one guy who might be able to stop it off the street? How did this guy become chief of the NYPD? I mean I know that the movie had really bad writing but someone needs to wonder about this stuff and it may as well be me. The only reason he drops the chase is because he found out that Spidey was his daughter's boyfriend. "Oh no, if I shoot him, Gwen will hate me." Uh, no, fucking everyone would hate you, want to know why? The one guy who could stop the Lizard is laying in the street dead, WHILE FUCKING EVERYONE ELSE IS A LIZARD PERSON, NICE ONE YOU MISERABLE TWAT!

...

I think I should drop this now.

Well, you have to provide dramatic tension and draw out a story. If they kept things logical it would make things a lot more straightforward and ultimately reduce the run time. Truthfully I think "family" is a cop out used far too often, the argument being that when loved ones are in danger people will prioritize them over everything else, however it typically becomes exaggerated beyond belief, especially when dealing with a situation where going to save the loved one is preventing addressing a situation where the loved one will die anyway (along with everyone else) if the hero doesn't step in. Granted due to cinematic invincibility the hero typically manages to do both, but it's still pretty ridiculous when you see it.

To be honest I think the fairly tight (at least when you watch them without too much deep analysis) science fiction and fantasy series become so popular largely because you don't have to put your brain into neutral to appreciate them on a basic level (it takes more consideration to notice the major plot or concept holes or stupidly irrational behavior). The ones that have you going "WTF" during a first, casual, viewing are the ones that tend to be forgotten or most heavily criticized. For example the Spider Man movie you mention is one that got pretty heavily bashed. As far as Batman goes, well the thing is that he's not afraid to die, and figures not stopping Hugo will do more damage than killing himself, I had a little less problem with that. Or course to be honest I'm not really looking forward to the new Batman game because the premise of "Arkham City" causes my brain to recoil on a basic level... Even within the logic of Batman comics I just cannot see someone like Hugo being given permission to cordon off part of the city as a private prison and social experiment center to begin with, and just grab popular citizens off the street and lob them in. I mean seriously, if someone suggesting that in New York City could you see it ever getting off the ground?

 

[spartan231490]

As for sending out assassins that isn't Loghain's style. He tried to remain an 'honourable' man to the end by

One word: Zevran.

Anywhoo, continuing this argument would be getting more off-topic than is perhaps respectful to the OP. I'll just say personally I find Loghain to be the precise kind of character that the thread was created to discuss and I don't agree with folks who justify his actions. You are, of course, entitled to your own view of him. Cheers for the response.

Five words: Hired by Arl Rendon Howe.

He was hired by Loghain, not Howe. It's made quite clear in the game.

 

[cojo965]

Keep in mind I'm not talking about, say, a villain's priorities, I'm talking about say Batman and the cure in Arkham City where he finds sorting out Hugo Strange more important that curing himself. Now with that clarified my example is Dennis Leary's character from The Amazing Spider-man. So let me get this straight, there is a giant humanoid lizard releasing a bioweapon on New York but your main goal is getting the one guy who might be able to stop it off the street? How did this guy become chief of the NYPD? I mean I know that the movie had really bad writing but someone needs to wonder about this stuff and it may as well be me. The only reason he drops the chase is because he found out that Spidey was his daughter's boyfriend. "Oh no, if I shoot him, Gwen will hate me." Uh, no, fucking everyone would hate you, want to know why? The one guy who could stop the Lizard is laying in the street dead, WHILE FUCKING EVERYONE ELSE IS A LIZARD PERSON, NICE ONE YOU MISERABLE TWAT!

...

I think I should drop this now.

Well, you have to provide dramatic tension and draw out a story. If they kept things logical it would make things a lot more straightforward and ultimately reduce the run time. Truthfully I think "family" is a cop out used far too often, the argument being that when loved ones are in danger people will prioritize them over everything else, however it typically becomes exaggerated beyond belief, especially when dealing with a situation where going to save the loved one is preventing addressing a situation where the loved one will die anyway (along with everyone else) if the hero doesn't step in. Granted due to cinematic invincibility the hero typically manages to do both, but it's still pretty ridiculous when you see it.

To be honest I think the fairly tight (at least when you watch them without too much deep analysis) science fiction and fantasy series become so popular largely because you don't have to put your brain into neutral to appreciate them on a basic level (it takes more consideration to notice the major plot or concept holes or stupidly irrational behavior). The ones that have you going "WTF" during a first, casual, viewing are the ones that tend to be forgotten or most heavily criticized. For example the Spider Man movie you mention is one that got pretty heavily bashed. As far as Batman goes, well the thing is that he's not afraid to die, and figures not stopping Hugo will do more damage than killing himself, I had a little less problem with that. Or course to be honest I'm not really looking forward to the new Batman game because the premise of "Arkham City" causes my brain to recoil on a basic level... Even within the logic of Batman comics I just cannot see someone like Hugo being given permission to cordon off part of the city as a private prison and social experiment center to begin with, and just grab popular citizens off the street and lob them in. I mean seriously, if someone suggesting that in New York City could you see it ever getting off the ground?

Fair enough Bats isn't afraid of death, doesn't help anyone if he's died before he could stop Hugo but there you go. But you can't deny that Mr. Stacy had a seriously fucked up set of priorities. I mean when he let Peter go, Spidey had already fought the Lizard to a standstill twice and only a short time ago the Lizard began attacking with a biological agent, so how is Spider Man the biggest threat here?