Child Death

[Marter]

the potential that the child has.

This and the potential for more children to be born, each with their own potential for greatness. A child will grow up and have roughly 30 years to procreate while a 60 year old cannot, so the younger the individual, the more likely they will create more life.

This also assumes that humans are purely rational beings which, as far as I'm aware, is a silly statement to make.

I'm not talking about someone that old. Think more in the 30-50 year old range. They still have the potential to procreate, and have also had positive experiences in their lives that they would lose upon death. The child wouldn't be able to have recognized these types of experiences, and thus, doesn't really lose anything.

 

[Griphphin]

The way I see it, you wouldn't be losing all that much if you were to die. You wouldn't have experienced true hapiness at that stage in your life. An adult on the other hand, has most likely felt true hapiness before. You would actually have something taken away from you if you die an adult. As a child, you would never have experienced something like that, so you can not have it taken away.

I believe this is a big part of what makes a child's death more saddening/grieve-worthy. Just logically speaking, an adult has already had the opportunity to live and love and experience all life has to offer. The child hasn't had any kind of experience of the sort, and if that child dies, you are robbing him/her of any potential to live the life the adult has already had the opportunity to live.
It's also worth mentioning (especially the younger the child is) that the child is more innocent the adult in that he/she most likely had less power to influence/put a stop to the events and circumstances that led up to his/her death.

 

[Marter]

The way I see it, you wouldn't be losing all that much if you were to die. You wouldn't have experienced true hapiness at that stage in your life. An adult on the other hand, has most likely felt true hapiness before. You would actually have something taken away from you if you die an adult. As a child, you would never have experienced something like that, so you can not have it taken away.

I believe this is a big part of what makes a child's death more saddening/grieve-worthy. Just logically speaking, an adult has already had the opportunity to live and love and experience all life has to offer. The child hasn't had any kind of experience of the sort, and if that child dies, you are robbing him/her of any potential to live the life the adult has already had the opportunity to live.
That's the part I don't really get. The adult could be married, and be really happy in life. He would then lose all of that upon death. A small child wouldn't have experienced this, and wouldn't lose anything.

It's also worth mentioning (especially the younger the child is) that the child is more innocent the adult in that he/she most likely had less power to influence/put a stop to the events and circumstances that led up to his/her death.

I suppose this part does make sense.

 

[SlowShootinPete]

Because they're not expected to die. It's more sad if someone still has their whole life to live, then say, an 90 year old person.

But what about someone in their 30s-50s? They still have quite a bit to live for, but are grieved for far less than a child who hasn't done any good for the world.

Children are helpless and naive, and as far as I know adults are typically not. What's more, a 30 year old adult has had more of a chance than a child has to enjoy life. The fact that the child hasn't contributed anything to the world yet is irrelevant.

Spoiler

I believe this is a big part of what makes a child's death more saddening/grieve-worthy. Just logically speaking, an adult has already had the opportunity to live and love and experience all life has to offer. The child hasn't had any kind of experience of the sort, and if that child dies, you are robbing him/her of any potential to live the life the adult has already had the opportunity to live.
It's also worth mentioning (especially the younger the child is) that the child is more innocent the adult in that he/she most likely had less power to influence/put a stop to the events and circumstances that led up to his/her death.

Damn, beaten to the punch.

 

[Daverson]

We're instinctively wired up to protect children, when one dies we feel that we have failed in this duty. S'all there is too it.

 

[dbungus2000]

I find it sadder when an older person(non baby) dies because they had a personality, so you actually have something to miss. As opposed to a baby that acts like ever other baby in the world. I lost a friend who was 21 and I think that I will miss him more than any baby.

You'd be surprised how soon a baby develops a personality.

Meh, I still don't like 'em

 

[Marter]

Because they're not expected to die. It's more sad if someone still has their whole life to live, then say, an 90 year old person.

But what about someone in their 30s-50s? They still have quite a bit to live for, but are grieved for far less than a child who hasn't done any good for the world.

What's more, a 30 year old adult has had more of a chance than a child has to enjoy life.

That's my point. They've had a chance to enjoy life, and could continue to enjoy it. A young child hasn't had that experience, and isn't losing anything. An adult would be losing something when they die.

 

[SlowShootinPete]

Because they're not expected to die. It's more sad if someone still has their whole life to live, then say, an 90 year old person.

But what about someone in their 30s-50s? They still have quite a bit to live for, but are grieved for far less than a child who hasn't done any good for the world.

What's more, a 30 year old adult has had more of a chance than a child has to enjoy life.

That's my point. They've had a chance to enjoy life, and could continue to enjoy it. A young child hasn't had that experience, and isn't losing anything.

They're missing out on the experiences that make life worthwhile. That's the tragedy.

 

[Drakmeire]

I just think it's the idea that they could have been something great but never got a chance and even if they would be a failure at life they never would get to experience the feeling of accomplishment, love, purpose, or ever build memories of their own. just imagine if you died before your first day of school, sure there would be a lot of bad things you missed but even more good things and even sometimes the bad things can be our most precious memories or favorite stories.
I guess abortion would cover a similar ground though.

 

[Marter]

They're missing out on the experiences that make life worthwhile. That's the tragedy.

But without their brain being developed enough to comprehend life as a whole, they aren't missing anything.

A parallel I can bring is a PVR and Cable.

My grandparents have had just basic cable for many years. My grandmother tapes her shows on VHS tapes, and they are perfectly happy with that system.

We have a PVR, something I would consider a step up. It's easier to use, and is an improvement over VHS tapes. They are completely oblivious to this, so they aren't "missing out" on anything, as they don't even know it exists. Just as a child doesn't "know" of the life they are living at that point in time.

I hope that made sense...

 

[Macgyvercas]

Snip

People are sadder about children dying more than they are about adults dying for one very simple reason...Lost potential. "What might this child done if s/he had grown up"

Admittedly, they might grow up to be an axe murderer, but people seem to give kids the benifit of the doubt for some reason.

 

[ultrachicken]

Children are seen as the face of innocence, which has to do with why people would feel sad.
Also because the child had parents who had just had the baby and didn't get to really know it before it died.

 

[bobknowsall]

Because they're not expected to die. It's more sad if someone still has their whole life to live, then say, an 90 year old person.

But what about someone in their 30s-50s? They still have quite a bit to live for, but are grieved for far less than a child who hasn't done any good for the world.

That may be true, but that's because they haven't had the chance. It feels like their life has been brutally cut short, whereas someone in their 30s-50s has had a little bit more time on the planet, so it doesn't feel like as much of a waste.

 

[Marter]

Because they're not expected to die. It's more sad if someone still has their whole life to live, then say, an 90 year old person.

But what about someone in their 30s-50s? They still have quite a bit to live for, but are grieved for far less than a child who hasn't done any good for the world.

That may be true, but that's because they haven't had the chance. It feels like their life has been brutally cut short, whereas someone in their 30s-50s has had a little bit more time on the planet, so it doesn't feel like as much of a waste.

I suppose where I'm coming from is this: Adults have probably done some good in their lives, as well as experienced happiness. At least, that is in most cases. Younger children on the other hand, have done had neither of these. Potential is something that is wasted in many cases. They aren't cognitive enough in their thinking to realize what life has to offer, and therefore don't lose anything upon death.

 

[Kroker]

The way I see it, you wouldn't be losing all that much if you were to die. You wouldn't have experienced true hapiness at that stage in your life. An adult on the other hand, has most likely felt true hapiness before. You would actually have something taken away from you if you die an adult. As a child, you would never have experienced something like that, so you can not have it taken away.

At the same time could it not be said from this that the death of a child is tragic because they haven't experienced true happiness? If an adult has experienced it then surely they could find some comfort in that they've known it during their life. The death of a child who never did experience true happiness could be seen as tragic because they lost that opportunity. Is it not better to have had that happiness and lost it than to have never had it at all?

 

[Marter]

The way I see it, you wouldn't be losing all that much if you were to die. You wouldn't have experienced true hapiness at that stage in your life. An adult on the other hand, has most likely felt true hapiness before. You would actually have something taken away from you if you die an adult. As a child, you would never have experienced something like that, so you can not have it taken away.

At the same time could it not be said from this that the death of a child is tragic because they haven't experienced true happiness? If an adult has experienced it then surely they could find some comfort in that they've known it during their life. The death of a child who never did experience true happiness could be seen as tragic because they lost that opportunity. Is it not better to have had that happiness and lost it than to have never had it at all?

Not the way I see it. I'll give an example that I gave earlier in the thread.

<quote=marter>
A parallel I can bring is a PVR and Cable.

My grandparents have had just basic cable for many years. My grandmother tapes her shows on VHS tapes, and they are perfectly happy with that system.

We have a PVR, something I would consider a step up. It's easier to use, and is an improvement over VHS tapes. They are completely oblivious to this, so they aren't "missing out" on anything, as they don't even know it exists. Just as a child doesn't "know" of the life they are living at that point in time.

 

[SlowShootinPete]

They're missing out on the experiences that make life worthwhile. That's the tragedy.

But without their brain being developed enough to comprehend life as a whole, they aren't missing anything.

A parallel I can bring is a PVR and Cable.

My grandparents have had just basic cable for many years. My grandmother tapes her shows on VHS tapes, and they are perfectly happy with that system.

We have a PVR, something I would consider a step up. It's easier to use, and is an improvement over VHS tapes. They are completely oblivious to this, so they aren't "missing out" on anything, as they don't even know it exists. Just as a child doesn't "know" of the life they are living at that point in time.

I hope that made sense...

The fact that the child doesn't understand what they're missing doesn't factor into it for me. I want for them to grow old and know happiness.

 

[bobknowsall]

Because they're not expected to die. It's more sad if someone still has their whole life to live, then say, an 90 year old person.

But what about someone in their 30s-50s? They still have quite a bit to live for, but are grieved for far less than a child who hasn't done any good for the world.

That may be true, but that's because they haven't had the chance. It feels like their life has been brutally cut short, whereas someone in their 30s-50s has had a little bit more time on the planet, so it doesn't feel like as much of a waste.

I suppose where I'm coming from is this: Adults have probably done some good in their lives, as well as experienced happiness. At least, that is in most cases. Younger children on the other hand, have done had neither of these. Potential is something that is wasted in many cases. They aren't cognitive enough in their thinking to realize what life has to offer, and therefore don't lose anything upon death.

I can understand where you're coming from, and I think the loss of a life is terrible, regardless of whether or not they're a child or an adult. But I think that people just tend to think that the death of an innocent child is worse than that of a disiullusioned adult. It's like harsh reality has no right to impinge on their innocence, or some nonsense like that.

Looking at it in a purely technical and logical, it's also a waste of the time, resources and physical discomfort that went into the child's development. There has been no chance for that "investment" (To use a rather detached term) to come to fruition, whereas an adult has made some use of their time on the planet.

 

[Kroker]

Not the way I see it. I'll give an example that I gave earlier in the thread.

<quote=marter>
A parallel I can bring is a PVR and Cable.

My grandparents have had just basic cable for many years. My grandmother tapes her shows on VHS tapes, and they are perfectly happy with that system.

We have a PVR, something I would consider a step up. It's easier to use, and is an improvement over VHS tapes. They are completely oblivious to this, so they aren't "missing out" on anything, as they don't even know it exists. Just as a child doesn't "know" of the life they are living at that point in time.

Ah yes but in your example they aren't 'missing out' because PVR is something they will likely never use. Being able to fully experience life is something that a child will have as they grow older. My view is partly inspired by the old phrase that it is 'better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all' except of course in this instance love is simply substituted for life as a whole. In other words it could be said similarly that it's better to have lived and lost than to have never lived at all.

Also may I add that it's meaningful debates such as these that are why I love The Escapist.

 

[Marter]

I can understand where you're coming from, and I think the loss of a life is terrible, regardless of whether or not they're a child or an adult. But I think that people just tend to think that the death of an innocent child is worse than that of a disiullusioned adult. It's like harsh reality has no right to impinge on their innocence, or some nonsense like that.

Looking at it in a purely technical and logical, it's also a waste of the time, resources and physical discomfort that went into the child's development. There has been no chance for that "investment" (To use a rather detached term) to come to fruition, whereas an adult has made some use of their time on the planet.

I'm also of the opinion that death at any level is horrible. I guess I just come from a far too logical approach to think that a child's death should be considered worse.