Child Safety Bill Could Cripple Anime Industry

[Gindil]

I don't see a lot of good coming out of this. A lot of mangaka will probably move out of Tokyo and for certain, there will be a huge backlash as manga gets more expensive.

But I can damn sure bet that for others (read: international market) there WILL be effects far reaching.

 

[ryai458]

Good japan can finally be a little less weird.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

There is no slippery slope here for me, and therefore I find the whole situation hilarious.

Well, I guess I just mistakenly worked off the assumption that you had sympathy with other people's problems.
To extrapolate: I'm not Jewish, and I do not live in Germany. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have tried to stop the Holocaust if I could, just because it wouldn't hurt me.

Edit: And of course we can mention that we shouldn't assume that Japanese political affairs won't affect international opinions with time.

Godwin's law much? Considering the various humanitarian crises and atrocities that are regularly occurring around the world, I think there are far more important issues to crusade against than the proposed censorship of the Tokyo cartoon industry. To say that comparing the Holocaust - one of the greatest atrocities in human history - to cartoons being censored is a grotesquely inappropriate thing to do is putting it far far too lightly. Those two things are not even slightly comparable, and if anyone genuinely believes that such comparisons are appropriate then I will hold that up as evidence that they lead immensely shallow lives; how else can you get from "Anime is in trouble!" to the freaking Holocaust?!

And I'm sure we should all live in fear that Japan's attitudes regarding their anime and manga will spill over and impact the rest of the world's attitudes towards their own anime and manga. Oh wait, that's stupid, because we don't have any - the issue is the government of Japan (or rather, Tokyo)'s stance on the products of Japanese popular culture - it's only ever going to impact anyone outside of Japan if they are fans of the effected mediums. Are you equally worried that Australia's persistent backwards stance regarding the classification of video games is going to sway other governments into emulating them?

 

[Sutter Cane]

Godwin's law much? Considering the various humanitarian crises and atrocities that are regularly occurring around the world, I think there are far more important issues to crusade against than the proposed censorship of the Tokyo cartoon industry. To say that comparing the Holocaust - one of the greatest atrocities in human history - to cartoons being censored is a grotesquely inappropriate thing to do is putting it far far too lightly. Those two things are not even slightly comparable, and if anyone genuinely believes that such comparisons are appropriate then I will hold that up as evidence that they lead immensely shallow lives; how else can you get from "Anime is in trouble!" to the freaking Holocaust?!

And I'm sure we should all live in fear that Japan's attitudes regarding their anime and manga will spill over and impact the rest of the world's attitudes towards their own anime and manga. Oh wait, that's stupid, because we don't have any - the issue is the government of Japan (or rather, Tokyo)'s stance on the products of Japanese popular culture - it's only ever going to impact anyone outside of Japan if they are fans of the effected mediums. Are you equally worried that Australia's persistent backwards stance regarding the classification of video games is going to sway other governments into emulating them?

Well, obviously he was exaggerating for effect, as no sane person could seriously think thr situations are equivalent. You did kind of ignore, or possibly prove his point by showing that you seemingly don't have any sympathy for people affected by a problem that doesn't affect you. As an anime fan (and just a plain fan of animation in general), I really dislike this law, because of how vague it is. I really don't want japanese animatoin to fall into the same age ghetto that western animation is in. I want the creators to be able to tell complex stories with mature themes, and not have to worry about being censored. That's not too crazy of an opinion is it?

 

[Michael Connell]

You know what I find interesting, it's how a number of the posters here generalize and insult anime fans and yet they complain about how the media generalizes and insults the gaming community. Ain't hypocrisy great?

 

[Jonluw]

There is no slippery slope here for me, and therefore I find the whole situation hilarious.

Well, I guess I just mistakenly worked off the assumption that you had sympathy with other people's problems.
To extrapolate: I'm not Jewish, and I do not live in Germany. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have tried to stop the Holocaust if I could, just because it wouldn't hurt me.

Edit: And of course we can mention that we shouldn't assume that Japanese political affairs won't affect international opinions with time.

Godwin's law much?

Fine, I can use the suppression of some other ethnical minority as an example if using the third reich somehow magically makes my argument invalid.

Considering the various humanitarian crises and atrocities that are regularly occurring around the world, I think there are far more important issues to crusade against than the proposed censorship of the Tokyo cartoon industry. To say that comparing the Holocaust - one of the greatest atrocities in human history - to cartoons being censored is a grotesquely inappropriate thing to do is putting it far far too lightly. Those two things are not even slightly comparable, and if anyone genuinely believes that such comparisons are appropriate then I will hold that up as evidence that they lead immensely shallow lives; how else can you get from "Anime is in trouble!" to the freaking Holocaust?!

You seem to have misread my post, good sir. I am not comparing the magnitude of the Holocaust to that of anime censorship, I'm merely saying that the same principal of your "It doesn't affect me, so I don't care"-attitude applies. To put it bluntly: Why should I care about the Holocaust? Noone I knew died there, and it didn't happen in my country" (not 100% true, but imagine, if you will, that I live in an other country). What I tried to do was to explain that just because something doesn't directly affect you, that doesn't mean you shouldn't care. If someone confronted you with their opinion of "So what if the Nazis wanted to kill all the jews, they're German, I'm not German and I'm not jewish, so why should I care?", I'm guessing - from your response to misunderstanding the intention of my post - you would be repulsed. However; when it turns out that Japan is planning to undermine free speech like this, you reply "It's happening in Japan and I don't like anime, so I don't care". Thus my quoting Pastor Martin Niemoller.

And I'm sure we should all live in fear that Japan's attitudes regarding their anime and manga will spill over and impact the rest of the world's attitudes towards their own anime and manga. Oh wait, that's stupid, because we don't have any - the issue is the government of Japan (or rather, Tokyo)'s stance on the products of Japanese popular culture - it's only ever going to impact anyone outside of Japan if they are fans of the effected mediums. Are you equally worried that Australia's persistent backwards stance regarding the classification of video games is going to sway other governments into emulating them?

In fact, I do worry that other countries might take after Australia, yes.

But that doesn't matter, I wasn't saying that that is likely to happen. I only wanted to point out that you shouldn't completely dismiss the possibility of Japan's laws affecting the international norm; however small that possibility may be.

Edit: And for the record, you seem to have focused on the wrong part of my post entirely.

 

[irishda]

Godwin's law much? Considering the various humanitarian crises and atrocities that are regularly occurring around the world, I think there are far more important issues to crusade against than the proposed censorship of the Tokyo cartoon industry. To say that comparing the Holocaust - one of the greatest atrocities in human history - to cartoons being censored is a grotesquely inappropriate thing to do is putting it far far too lightly. Those two things are not even slightly comparable, and if anyone genuinely believes that such comparisons are appropriate then I will hold that up as evidence that they lead immensely shallow lives; how else can you get from "Anime is in trouble!" to the freaking Holocaust?!

And I'm sure we should all live in fear that Japan's attitudes regarding their anime and manga will spill over and impact the rest of the world's attitudes towards their own anime and manga. Oh wait, that's stupid, because we don't have any - the issue is the government of Japan (or rather, Tokyo)'s stance on the products of Japanese popular culture - it's only ever going to impact anyone outside of Japan if they are fans of the effected mediums. Are you equally worried that Australia's persistent backwards stance regarding the classification of video games is going to sway other governments into emulating them?

Well, obviously he was exaggerating for effect, as no sane person could seriously think thr situations are equivalent. You did kind of ignore, or possibly prove his point by showing that you seemingly don't have any sympathy for people affected by a problem that doesn't affect you. As an anime fan (and just a plain fan of animation in general), I really dislike this law, because of how vague it is. I really don't want japanese animatoin to fall into the same age ghetto that western animation is in. I want the creators to be able to tell complex stories with mature themes, and not have to worry about being censored. That's not too crazy of an opinion is it?

You don't need what I believe one poster characterized as "panty shots of 6 year old girls" or the "nude magical girl effect" in order to tell a complex story with mature themes. Having your heroine run around battling villains in a school girl's uniform that looks like a uniform from stripper school is not a necessary plot device. It's an odd choice for characterization. And while I agree with western animation being largely restricted to a certain age bracket, I disagree with the implied notion that they are not telling complex stories with mature themes. Movies like the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Lion King, Toy Story, Shrek, and cartoons such as Recess, Batman: tAS, Gargoyles, hell even the Calvin and Hobbes comics all provide fine examples of western cartoons providing layered stories that adults can appreciate; some of them are even quite emotional and dramatic at times. Bambi's mom got friggin' shot, dammit! Yet none of them provide overtly sexual themes of things like incest or gratuitous panty shots of girls who aren't even old enough to buy smokes. And no, people can't have sympathy for other people's problems if they don't have any sense that it is a problem. You can empathize and understand their view point, but that's just as likely to make you see it as less of a problem.

 

[wildcard9]

You know, there's multiple factors in this bill, and I'll disect 'em:

1. Homophobia. Japan is and always will be a pro-homogenize nation where if you don't meet the standards (pure Japanese, physically, mentally, and emotionally fit, heterosexual, etc.), you're discriminated against. In a medium that both exploits and celebrates homosexuality in its myriad forms (pornographic or otherwise), the people and by extension the gov't won't suffer the deviancy at all.

2. Internat'll pressures. After the RapeLay controversy, there's no doubt that the media scapegoating on our side of the pacific has gotten to Japan. We're the second largest anime market, and our relative overreaction has caused them to overreact as well. That, and the Iowa hentai case a year back are triggers to a long-standing culture shock and generational problem with anime here in America that was bound to explode eventually. Of course, they wouldn't get after the videogame industry because companies like Nintendo have gone above and beyond to make gaming into a respectable medium and a family activity, where anime is largely a medium that appeals to older audiences.

3. Scapegoating. Economy's down? China and N. Korea getting uppity? Government falling apart and three governors resigning within three years? People expressing dire unress? Find a scapegoat! Anime and manga have always been scapegoats in Japan, and this case is no exception.

4. The industry itself giving in to its base nature. Watch MasakoX's review of Kanokon [http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/ir/tfstar/masakox/anif/28977-kanokon]. The anime industry, much like the comic industry during the 80's and 90's, is desperately trying to make a profit by appealing to its hardcore fanbase and giving them what they want: gratuitous fanservice bordering on pornography. This confirms the sterotype of anime as animated pornography, alienates the mainstream audience, and gives opportunists ammo.

And that's all for now.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

-snip-

Well, obviously he was exaggerating for effect, as no sane person could seriously think thr situations are equivalent. You did kind of ignore, or possibly prove his point by showing that you seemingly don't have any sympathy for people affected by a problem that doesn't affect you. As an anime fan (and just a plain fan of animation in general), I really dislike this law, because of how vague it is. I really don't want japanese animatoin to fall into the same age ghetto that western animation is in. I want the creators to be able to tell complex stories with mature themes, and not have to worry about being censored. That's not too crazy of an opinion is it?

I'd contend that if you have to make comparisons to the Nazis in an argument then that it is a sign you have already lost the argument, but fair enough, I'll play along: The contention that I have no sympathy for the plight of strangers so long as I am in no risk of sharing their plight is based on false assumptions, revolving around a fundamental difference in perspective regarding this issue. Namely, I do not consider the ramifications this particular bill holds for fans of those mediums to be a plight worthy of my sympathy - around the world right now there are religious liberties being violated, ethnic cleansing, mass starvation, viral epidemics, natural disasters, devastated economies, everywhere you look you'll find real gripping human anguish and tragedy.

Conversely, over here we have a group whose suffering is practically boundless - there may be less of the entertainment products they enjoy, oh noes!

I think you can see my point: In the grand scheme of things, we're operating in "That band I like just broke up!" or "Argh, Fox just canceled yet another great show!" territory, not "How can you possibly turn a blind eye towards the suffering of your fellow man, you monster!?" territory - there isn't any suffering going on in the first place, we're talking about being mildly inconvenienced at best.

Now the people who might lose their jobs if this bill goes through, they have a real stake in this, and therefore engender a tad bit more sympathy from yours truly as a result. But only a tad bit more, because people lose their jobs for all sorts of reasons - shifts in demand, companies collapsing, automation of tasks leading to jobs becoming redundant, you name it - why should I rank bills pertaining to the production of Japanese cartoons I don't even like as a more worthy reason to feel sorry for someone I've never met in a foreign country losing their job than all the other reasons people I've never met in foreign countries lose their jobs?

Your opinions on this issue are perfectly reasonable, it's just that they're perfectly reasonable opinions about something that ultimately doesn't matter much.

 

[Naheal]

*snip*

I like how you chose a Nanoha pic for the first one. Honestly, of all the magical girl animes to choose, you picked the one who focuses on actual characterization and storytelling.

And pantyshots of nine-year-old girls. I wouldn't ever watch the first season with company around.

There was the one shot initially from the episode that you pictured, but I understand where you're coming from.

 

[Sutter Cane]

You don't need what I believe one poster characterized as "panty shots of 6 year old girls" or the "nude magical girl effect" in order to tell a complex story with mature themes. Having your heroine run around battling villains in a school girl's uniform that looks like a uniform from stripper school is not a necessary plot device. It's an odd choice for characterization. And while I agree with western animation being largely restricted to a certain age bracket, I disagree with the implied notion that they are not telling complex stories with mature themes. Movies like the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Lion King, Toy Story, Shrek, and cartoons such as Recess, Batman: tAS, Gargoyles, hell even the Calvin and Hobbes comics all provide fine examples of western cartoons providing layered stories that adults can appreciate; some of them are even quite emotional and dramatic at times. Bambi's mom got friggin' shot, dammit! Yet none of them provide overtly sexual themes of things like incest or gratuitous panty shots of girls who aren't even old enough to buy smokes. And no, people can't have sympathy for other people's problems if they don't have any sense that it is a problem. You can empathize and understand their view point, but that's just as likely to make you see it as less of a problem.

Missing the point. the way this law is worded it could apply to far more that just "pantie shots of little girls" and that's why i have a problem with it, and while i agree that complex stories can and have been told without explicit content (personally i love disney and pixar films), I would hate for those to be the only way mature themes can be expressed. The real problem is not with the idea of the law necessarily, but with the execution. Heck if the censors wanted to get really strict, an anime like Baccano! if made after the law goes into effect, may be subject to thus law despite having very little fanservice, since the main protagonists are involved with the mafia and it may encourage criminal behavior. While that may seem like a stretch (and it probably is), the way the law seems to be worded there isn't anything to prevent this. If it was more specific about what it was restricting, I may ahve a different opinion on it, but the fact that the law is so vague really worries me.

 

[tyriless]

If you do have a problem with this form of censorship then either you are not a fan of the material at all, did not contemplate what anime and manga you enjoy could be affected by this, or did not read the article. Anime has been geared for children for a very long time, but it has evolved so much since its golden days of Astro Boy. It has evolved into an artform. In my small collection of anime I have my stupid-fun super hero fantasies but I have also Now and Then, Here and There. If you haven't seen it is dark, brutal, and also very beautiful. It is about the loss of innocence in the face of brutal warfare and it would of been impossible to convey in any other visual medium. However, now making such a series has become hamstrung as 90% of the character where under the age of 16.

 

[RUINER ACTUAL]

Fuck child safety. The last thing this world should be concerned with is the safety of its children. Especially in regards towards what they see in the media. That's the parents problem.

Damn right sir, I think I owe you a drink. Whats your poison?

Thank you, sir. I think I'll have a Jagerbomb..

 

[Soviet Heavy]

You know what? How about some of you listen to the people from Japan, and ask their opinions? There was one guy in this thread a few pages back, but I'm too lazy to quote. Ask him how he feels on the subject.

Perhaps the Japanese might appreciate being recognized for more than their cartoons for once. Ask them. It affects them the most.

 

[Jim555]

Considering what has happened now, I hope that either the Prime Minister or the Tokyo Bar Association and Japan PEN Club will give a "Motion for Reconsideration" to the lawmakers just to stop this crisis before it gets worse

 

[BrainWalker]

Japan keeps taking one step forward and two steps back. They allow lolicon material to be sold, but censor out genitals in live action pornography.

I for one don't think it will pass though, it's too major a change that will affect two of their largest industries.

Also of note is Ishihara is just kind of an all around bastard in general:
- Claims Rape of Nanking never happened
- Said in a interview for a women's magazine "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin"
- Believes that a Korea under Japanese rule would be justified

That second one can't be true, I'm not even going to look it up...

I made it about halfway through the thread before I got bored, so I apologize if someone already responded with a reputable link, but in case not, here's proof so you don't have to look it up.

 

[ph0b0s123]

FACEPALM. Look, see if people posting 'yay no more lolicon' can get this concept. THIS LAW DOES NOTHING ABOUT LOLICON AND RAPE ANIME / MANGA. NO BANS, NOTHING. GOT THAT....

Lolicon, etc is already classed as porn and is not affected by this law. This law, like the games law, will restrict childrens access to stuff that was not judged to be porn or too violent up until now.

I would love to see lolicon and all the rape stuff, both anime and live action, be curtailed / banned in Japan. The amount of rape porn in Japan is scary and surely not healthy.

Since none of the stuff I listed above is addressed, I cannot take this law seriously. All it does is put more restrictions on people are are not trying to make legitimate non porn stuff.

Everyone gets het up about the sex side of things, but seem to have missed (if I am reading it correctly) that the law also goes after violence. That's a much bigger issue. Amine with no violence.....

TL;DR: I'm sorry your favorite anime character has the body and face of a 6 year old but is supposed to be 28 and dresses like she's 17 and mad at her parents. Take a picture of a woman, let's say 25 for good measure, send it in to your favorite anime author and say, "This is how they're supposed to look like." And for good measure, do the same with a picture of a 28 year old man too because I'm pretty sure they all got stuck in the 6-15 age range.

Most westerners miss that manga artists are drawing 25 year olds. But Asian 25 year olds. Generally in comparision to western women, Asian women tend to look very young, with small builds, well into their 20's. The amount of times I have confused 20 something Asian Women as being about 15 / 16. And Asians are hugely concerned with youth and cuteness to the extent of 30 year old women giggling like school girls, etc. Thats were 'super deformed' (look it up) versions of popular charactors comes from. So maybe instead of educating managa artists you maybe should reset your age radar to take into account the types of women that manage artists use for inspiration....

Oh noes, this is horrible!!

...is what I would be saying if I actually gave a crap about anime or manga. Which I do not. In point of fact, I have a well known antipathy for the entire medium, so news that potential legislation could cripple the whole darn industry doesn't really have a downside from my perspective. Yay censorship (that undermines things I dislike).

I couldn't care less. I hate Anime, so it isn't in my life in any way whatsoever. Getting rid of it is just fine with me.

That's fine I in return will not give a crap when they come to ban something you enjoy....

Fuck child safety. The last thing this world should be concerned with is the safety of its children. Especially in regards towards what they see in the media. That's the parents problem.

This, I'm so sick and tired of having to give up the things I enjoy just so some little shit can remain "pure and safe" from the violent content. Screw the family and the children, I'm a single white male and I fail to see why I should have to suffer.

Could not agree more. Why don't all us people without kids setup a country we can all go to were there are no kids, so therefore no laws needed to protect children. No worries about pedos as there are no children for them to molest. Of course when you meet that special someone and want to have kids you will have to leave and go to a country with kids and the annoying laws. But that's the sacrifice of having kids....

Saw Skycrawlers last week. Thought it, like most good anime movies, had some of the most original and interesting ideas I had ever seen. More original than most werstern movies anyway. Any law that curtails creating such originality is not worh the paper it's written on

 

[Saucycarpdog]

*snip*

I like how you chose a Nanoha pic for the first one. Honestly, of all the magical girl animes to choose, you picked the one who focuses on actual characterization and storytelling.

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not. Can you give me a hint?

 

[Naheal]

*snip*

I like how you chose a Nanoha pic for the first one. Honestly, of all the magical girl animes to choose, you picked the one who focuses on actual characterization and storytelling.

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not. Can you give me a hint?

Mostly not. Nanoha had the problem of nudity with children, but it was never actually sexualized. Of all the magical girl anime that I've watched, that one has the best story.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Ugh, as others before me have stated: Screw child safety! At the rate this society is going, the U.S. may as well have a government social worker bear witness during "inception" and immediately hand out pamphlets to the newborn...

Thanks to "child saftey," I can't even sit in the back of a vehicle without having to ask the driver to open the doors like a bloody seven year old. "Child safety" should be the parent's job and not forced upon everyone in the country. Americans should truly be up in arms against this though; Anime and the like are what, a step/step and a half away from standard media enjoyed by the average person (TV, movies, books)? If they target japanese animation, regulation over DVDs, "offensive" comics or art books, and the like does not seem like such a difficult leap then. This law is not protection, it is egregious censorship, and anyone with a functioning brain can at least conceptualize this ominous factor.