Choosing Best

[userwhoquitthesite]

It's a Skyrim thread, get out while you can

Skyrim, like many RPGs of late, puts the player in the position of being the ONE MAN (or woman) who can decide the sociopolitical future of the world.

What do YOU think the is the best future for Skyrim and the Empire?

So, we have these facts: The Empire is severely weakened. Much of its territory is in open rebellion or lost entirely. The Mages Guild, primary source of all magical learning in Cyrodil (not to mention its presence in other territories) has collapsed from infighting, and split into two new groups, the Synod and the College of Whispers. As such, imperial mages are few and far between of late. Tyrannical elves rule their own conquered territory in the Summerset Isles and Valenwood, and have the Empire itself on a leash. They have outlawed the worship of mankind's greatest hero, Tiber Septim, Talos, Nord founder of the Empire, who came from Skyrim. Skyrim is in a civil war between loyalists and rebels.
Jarl Ulfric of windhelm seeks to gain the throne of Skyrim and sever ties to the Empire.
General Tullius of the Legion has been ordered to put down his Ulfric's rebellion, and maintain imperial control in the north.

Now, the game makes it clear, Skyrim is a vital resource for the Empire. Without Skyrim, it seems unlikely that the Empire can support itself for long, and will thereby lose any appearance of sovereignty, an what little territory it still holds will be lost, and either become independent or be ruled by the Thalmor. The Imperials say that they need skyrim to remain part of the empire, so that eventually, war can be brought to the thalmor and restore the Empire to it's former glory. Ulfric on the other hand maintains that Skyrim can become independent, then swiftly become powerful enough to not only repel invaders, but to declare war on the Summerset Isles themselves.

Regardless of which path you choose, it seems clear that the fate of the world will be left to yet another single person in the next game, so it may be pointless to pick a side, but what do YOU think the best course of action is? Should the empire slave under the yoke of its elven oppressors and hope to fight back? or should the empire be washed away in the tides of history and begin anew?

I haven't decided. But I think I'm honestly leaning to Ulfric's side.
The empire has lost its soul.

EDIT: Wow, this is a prime example of why you should not start threads while half asleep. I meant to talk about all the quests, and how they add up to a better or worse skyrim, but got focused on the civil war and kept rambling

So, new topic: Civil War outcome, plus, is it better to restore or destroy the Dark Brotherhood, and should you help the thieves guild or let it rot (off camera).

Essentially, what quest paths do you think lead to skyrims best possible future?

 

[Lucem712]

Skyrim needs a revolution, but Ulfric isn't the one to do it. Sure, hate Imperials and Thalmor all you want but when push comes to shove, the Thalmor will utterly obligate the weak remains of storm-cloak ruled Skyrim.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Skyrim needs a revolution, but Ulfric isn't the one to do it. Sure, hate Imperials and Thalmor all you want but when push comes to shove, the Thalmor will utterly obligate the weak remains of storm-cloak ruled Skyrim.

Obligate is not the word you mean

and i don't know, Hammerfell is closer and actually in open conflict with the thalmor, and the thalmor are actively trying to invade elswyr. The Nords arent the biggest threat. Plus, the attac wont just be nords, they'll pick up allies on the way there. The bretons and the redguards will join in right quick.

 

[Lucem712]

Skyrim needs a revolution, but Ulfric isn't the one to do it. Sure, hate Imperials and Thalmor all you want but when push comes to shove, the Thalmor will utterly obligate the weak remains of storm-cloak ruled Skyrim.

Obligate is not the word you mean

and i don't know, Hammerfell is closer and actually in open conflict with the thalmor, and the thalmor are actively trying to invade elswyr. The Nords arent the biggest threat. Plus, the attac wont just be nords, they'll pick up allies on the way there. The bretons and the redguards will join in right quick.

My bad, obliterate*

 

[Azure-Supernova]

The best outcome is obviously the one where I aid Ulfric in his rise to the throne, whilst at the same time using my position as the Dragonborn to build a cult of followers. Then once Ulfric is in power, I challenge him to throne, shout him to his knees and then assume power... then begins my path to true glory as I make use of the dragon blood in my veins to take my place as the Emperor of Tamriel. The Septim line is done, surely our Dovahkin is the best person to start a new royal line?

 

[dyre]

Disclaimer: I'm only halfway through the main quest, so I might be missing some things.

I have no love for the Empire; it's a shadow of its former glory and the puppet of the Thalmor. The Nords definitely ought to get their religious freedom, and there's no reason for them to suffer just so the crappy Empire gets to pretend it still has some measure of autonomy. But depending on the situation outside Skyrim, it might not be wise to rebel now.

I'm not entirely sure what kind of stake the Thalmor has in Skyrim. If Skyrim were to become an independent nation, would the Thalmor care enough to conquer it? Do the Thalmor need Skyrim for anything, or are they just being jerks who hate religious freedom? How committed are they to holding Skyrim? Revolutions are often won because the imperialists just don't have the will and the resources to continue a war.

Basically, I'd only support the rebellion if I thought there was a chance of lasting victory. There's no sense in breaking off the empire just to get slaughtered right after. It'd just hurt future chances to get it right.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

If you take Ulfric at his word, then his aims are fairly succinct. First, he wants to return the rule of the Nords to Nords. By this he obviously means he wants to be King. Second he wants to restore the worship of Talos. Third, he wants to reconquer the various holdings of the empire.

If you ignore any of the subtext where supporting Ulfric might just be a grab for power engineered by the Elves what Ulfric offers is a restoration of the Empire. Thus, in reality, both sides of the equation work to the same end; the question then becomes which side is likely to succeed.

The elves have at their command resources sufficient to have soundly beaten the Empire in their last engagement. That alone is a telling point. United the empire barely withstood the assault of the elves. If Skyrim were independent, that means that the elves stand united against the Orcs, the Redguard, the Nords, the Imperials and so forth who all stand alone. While alliance in a time of crisis might be offered, without the threat of a united force against the Elves, what's to stop them from assaulting the Ork or Redguard holdings? What's to stop them from marching on the rest of the empire?

The war that Ulfric wages, even if we accept his claims at face value, is irrational. He wastes men that are not readily replaced. He wastes resources that take time to collect. By fighting the Empire, he reduces the chances of both the Empire and Skyrim to stand against the elves. And in that move we find the underlying truth of it all. Ulfric's war will not secure independence for Skyrim - he simply ensures new elven masters. His war will not restore the worship of Talos; he dooms it..

But, what of his character? If we take Ulfric at his word and do not look at the clues that give flimsy evidence the man is a plant we find a man who is smart and charismatic. He has seen first hand the might of the elves. Even if we take him at his word, he is smart enough to know his assets are few. Besting the Empire all but assures no Imperial Legion will come to his aid. It means that he must defend his lands against a superior enemy with a handful of Crumbling forts and hope the mountains themselves come to his defense.

If you consider this, then we start to see the truth. Restoring the worship of Talos isn't his aim; it is a rallying cry. The Empire didn't like the White Gold Concordant any more than Skyrim. If he is a rational man, he knows that defending Skyrim would be difficult. His weakness means he will not be in a position to expand his holdings. It might be that the mountains that ring the province will provide protection. That turning the nation into an armed camp would dissuade conquest. But even the mighty walls of Constantinople were breached. Even the city of Troy was conquered. And those walls of earth and snow that protect Skyrim offer scant hope in a world where there are no allies left to call on. The truth is, Ulfric is making a grab for power. Nothing more and nothing less.


He might believe what he says and use his arguments to justify the flaws in his logic to himself. He might be a true Nord. He might even be the right man to rule Skyrim. But when he started a war when allies were short to gain that power, he became the enemy of Skyrim. Just an enemy with a familiar face.

 

[lord.jeff]

Skyrim and the Empire need each other to be successful against the Thalmor. Ulfric would only serve to split the powers not only that but his action could easy start up the war again, which Skyrim in it's best of days would be hard pressed to win, it'd be just hopeless to fight it right after a civil war. Plus Ulfric seems to be doing all this as a power grab.

 

[Craorach]

I was never entirely clear why Skyrim is so important to the Empire. I mean, it's a pretty hostile environment, doesn't seem to have a massive population, and has some pretty severe problems of its own even before dragons turn up

About the best I can see is that it has a lot of mineral deposits and craftsmen for weapons and armour.

It's certainly not for food production, since the land and sea are both frozen. It can't be for troops, while the Nords are strong they don't seem to be able to leave their home en mass because of it's native threats.

So, tactically, what is so damn important about Skyrim?

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

I was never entirely clear why Skyrim is so important to the Empire. I mean, it's a pretty hostile environment, doesn't seem to have a massive population, and has some pretty severe problems of its own even before dragons turn up

About the best I can see is that it has a lot of mineral deposits and craftsmen for weapons and armour.

It's certainly not for food production, since the land and sea are both frozen. It can't be for troops, while the Nords are strong they don't seem to be able to leave their home en mass because of it's native threats.

So, tactically, what is so damn important about Skyrim?

Well, first off, the part you've already mentioned. Skyrim is the supply of most of the empire's silver, and a large part of the minerals. Running a country takes lots of money.
Also, Nords are a fearsome race to face in battle. Losing Skyrim means losing it's supply of bodies to fill the legion, which as this point is stretched thin just protecting cyrodil, not to mention having to maintain a presence in the other territories


its a gameplay/story segregation issue