Christmas, or Winter Fun-Day?

[vede]

Okay, my thread inspired by the other thread, "Christmas."

Surely, we all know the original purpose of Christmas; a day where parents give cool stuff the their children a day on which to celebrate the birth of Christ through the symbolism of gift-giving and love.

But over the years, Christmas has changed quite obviously. While it started with religious intent, it has now become simply a day on which gifts are granted and love is shared between families and friends. It has fallen from its original roots.

What do you think about this change? Is it better now? Is it worse? What kind of changes have other winter holidays undergone? Are they better or worse now, with those changes?

(Discuss, but I say, please try not to start religious wars, despite how much fun they sometimes are...)

 

[jim_doki]

I'm australian and its summer at christmas here...

nitpicking aside, I love getting together with my family on christmas, i think it's fantastic. I don't care that it's not a religious festival any more

 

[Amnestic]

Christians need to step back and realise that 'their' holiday is now being used by someone else for their purposes. If they have a problem with it, too bad. They took the holiday from someone else to begin with so it's not like they have a monopoly on the thing.

I'll still call it Christmas, why wouldn't I? Christmas is a time to get together, have fun, get gifts, as well as eat and drink a ridiculous amount of food and booze. What's not to love? "Winter-fun-day" sounds retarded, quite frankly.

It has fallen from its original roots.

Original Roots [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuletide]?

 

[meatloaf231]

Yeah, I don't think Christians even pretend that Christmas is "their" holiday any more.

 

[Good morning blues]

I don't believe that Christmas is "a day when love is shared between family and friends" so much as "a month-and-a-half period of crass commercialism and capitalist excess."

 

[Emmitt_Nervend]

Christians need to step back and realise that 'their' holiday is now being used by someone else for their purposes. If they have a problem with it, too bad. They took the holiday from someone else to begin with so it's not like they have a monopoly on the thing.

I'll still call it Christmas, why wouldn't I? Christmas is a time to get together, have fun, get gifts, as well as eat and drink a ridiculous amount of food and booze. What's not to love? "Winter-fun-day" sounds retarded, quite frankly.

It has fallen from its original roots.

Original Roots [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuletide]?

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Jamanticus]

Religious celebration=suck fest

Day where you get stuff and party=cool

Those mathematical equations speak for themselves.

I feel that both are very cool, and integral to the idea of the holiday...

Oh, and I have an interesting little ditty on Christmas and pagan holidays for you, Amnestic: Christmas itself is not a pagan holiday, but was placed on the same timeframe as that pagan holiday to keep Constantine's empire happy. Most of them were former pagans, so Constantine decided that the calendar might as well put two important holidays together, in order to make Christianity more appealing.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I think you guys are a little quick to perceive injustice. I don't think the issue is that Christians want secular persons to treat Christmas religiously. Christians want Christians to treat it so. It's an internal thing- at least, that's the only way I have ever perceived it.

There is a secular Christmas and a religious Christmas. Most people do a little of both. Any combination of the two is great. Of course, a religious person would probably go heavy on the latter.

 

[Amnestic]

Religious celebration=suck fest

Day where you get stuff and party=cool

Those mathematical equations speak for themselves.

I feel that both are very cool, and integral to the idea of the holiday...

Oh, and I have an interesting little ditty on Christmas and pagan holidays for you, Amnestic: Christmas itself is not a pagan holiday, but was placed on the same timeframe as that pagan holiday to keep Constantine's empire happy. Most of them were former pagans, so Constantine decided that the calendar might as well put two important holidays together, in order to make Christianity more appealing.

Nevertheless my point still stands about Christians getting annoyed at "their" holiday being changed. Who it came from and why it came to be what it was is, in my eyes, pretty irrelevant (though as you said, an interesting little ditty). I'll be damned if they're going to take the name of a holiday I enjoy and ask me to kindly not use it because I don't believe in their Magical Sky Wizard.

*coughs* Too much bile. For that I blame a few people I've talked to as of late who held opposing views to mind and raised such feelings within me.

 

[Brett Alex]

I don't believe that Christmas is "a day when love is shared between family and friends" so much as "a month-and-a-half period of crass commercialism and capitalist excess."

While your cynicism is mostly correct I love the fact that Christmas is basically an end of year slow down for almost everyone. Lots of people do just see it as crass commercialism, but in Australia at least spending during the holiday period has decreased over the last few years.

What I don't like is that many stores/business are remaining open now. I don't care if I can't see Harry Potter 6 as soon as it opens, or buy some sticky tape on Christmas morning. I really don't. And I prefer it when everything is quiet.

 

[Jamanticus]

Oh, and I have an interesting little ditty on Christmas and pagan holidays for you, Amnestic: Christmas itself is not a pagan holiday, but was placed on the same timeframe as that pagan holiday to keep Constantine's empire happy. Most of them were former pagans, so Constantine decided that the calendar might as well put two important holidays together, in order to make Christianity more appealing.

Nevertheless my point still stands about Christians getting annoyed at "their" holiday being changed. Who it came from and why it came to be what it was is, in my eyes, pretty irrelevant (though as you said, an interesting little ditty). I'll be damned if they're going to take the name of a holiday I enjoy and ask me to kindly not use it because I don't believe in their Magical Sky Wizard.

*coughs* Too much bile. For that I blame a few people I've talked to as of late who held opposing views to mind and raised such feelings within me.

All excellent points Amnestic (and thank you...I dunno what for yet, but thank you).

I agree fully [sup].....And I think I got that strange ditty from my math professor sometime last year... Just thought it was a fun fact, hehe....[/sup]

 

[perfectimo]

I live in Australia and pretty much any holiday is a day off and that's just it, ANZAC day is a bit different but apart from that it's just another day off. Yes, you eat and meet up and give presents but they are just gifts with no meaning apart from "love" and that's about it.

 

[Graustein]

I live in Australia and pretty much any holiday is a day off and that's just it, ANZAC day is a bit different but apart from that it's just another day off. Yes, you eat and meet up and give presents but they are just gifts with no meaning apart from "love" and that's about it.

What about the rampant consumerism that goes hand-in-hand with Christmas?

Christians need to step back and realise that 'their' holiday is now being used by someone else for their purposes. If they have a problem with it, too bad. They took the holiday from someone else to begin with so it's not like they have a monopoly on the thing.

The day we give them back their holiday is the day they stop bedecking every shopping center from here to Wolloomoolloo with Christmas stuff. When they keep Christmas to themselves, that's when they get to complain about us using it.
*ahem* sorry about that. A little more bile than I'd intended, no harm meant, but I'm sure you all get the message.



I'm Jewish, but my mum's Catholic, and we use Christmas as a wonderful opportunity to get our whole (very large) family together, have a cold meat lunch or a barbie, maybe go swimming in my cousins' pool and generally have a massive amount of good, quality family time. Oh, and stuff ourselves full of the confectionary delights that our stockings are invariably filled to bursting with.

It's a wonderful day all round, one that we don't need any religion for. No carols, no churchgoing or anything like that. Just good clean family fun. Then a few days later we do a similar thing with the Jewish side of the family for Hannukah.

 

[Altorin]

Christians need to step back and realise that 'their' holiday is now being used by someone else for their purposes. If they have a problem with it, too bad. They took the holiday from someone else to begin with so it's not like they have a monopoly on the thing.

that's great

"How dare you take our holiday and pervert it?!"

Considering almost every christian holiday is just the perversion of some other holiday of the people they were trying to convert, that's rich

 

[perfectimo]

I live in Australia and pretty much any holiday is a day off and that's just it, ANZAC day is a bit different but apart from that it's just another day off. Yes, you eat and meet up and give presents but they are just gifts with no meaning apart from "love" and that's about it.

What about the rampant consumerism that goes hand-in-hand with Christmas?

I don't think I fully understand why you are bringing this up but I'll say this. It is no worse than Tax Back sales, only difference is children get stuff too.

 

[Aiden Rebirth]

well the western world was once a very christian place, now the religious culture is fading, while dominate in the fact that we still consider our selfs a christian culture, the true is we have become very diverse, so some of our holiday's have been toned down also, it's just part of history, so as for your question it doesn't really matter, the holiday has changed just like the culture, you have nothing to say good or bad, ugh...

 

[Jimmyjames]

Christmas was originally a Pagan holiday anyway... so was Easter. They were the celebrations of Winter Solstice and Spring Equinox.

The early church liked to do that. They'd say "Oh, sorry... your holiday is now called Christmas, T.S."

So, it's only fitting that Christmas became a celebration of Santa and consumerism right under the noses of Christians.

 

[Jamanticus]

Christmas was originally a Pagan holiday anyway... so was Easter. They were the celebrations of Winter Solstice and Spring Equinox.

The early church liked to do that. They'd say "Oh, sorry... your holiday is now called Christmas, T.S."

So, it's only fitting that Christmas became a celebration of Santa and consumerism right under the noses of Christians.

See my above post: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.78046.962039

The Yuletide celebration thing predates the celebration of Christmas, but Christmas was smacked on top of Yuletide to make the recently converted Christians (formerly Pagans) happy...It used to be at a totally different time of year than Yule.....

So, you see, they are both discrete celebrations that have been sort of merged over time.

 

[stompy]

Oh, and I have an interesting little ditty on Christmas and pagan holidays for you, Amnestic: Christmas itself is not a pagan holiday, but was placed on the same timeframe as that pagan holiday to keep Constantine's empire happy. Most of them were former pagans, so Constantine decided that the calendar might as well put two important holidays together, in order to make Christianity more appealing.

That's what I heard too, though it was a bit more malicious. From what I've heard, it was to stop converts from practising their former religion, and not for the sake of convenience. Though, I am most likely wrong.

As for Christmas, it's a boiling summer day where I get time off with the family to enjoy. Whether it's time with the family, or time with the presents I get, that's ever-changing.

Edit:

It used to be at a totally different time of year than Yule.....

Again, if my hear-say is correct, then the time that Jesus was born was actually around March.

 

[Russian Redneck]

Christmas used to be one of my favorite holidays, but now I'm beginning to rethink my motivation for enjoying it. It used to be all about getting nice toys and stuff but then I got a job and money and soon I came to realize, "Why should I get this stuff on one specific day when any other day would suffice?" Since then, I've been lost, merely contemplating my reasons for what it means to me. I'm not complaing about receiving the latest, greatest Wii game, I just don't get why it used to be such a hallmark day for me.