Chronicling my way through Witcher 2

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Well, since I'm on sick leave for the rest of the week (like the past week and a half as well) due to pneumonia and just recently went on a massive rant about The Witcher [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.949250-Fuck-The-Witcher-1-Seriously-rant], I though I'd make a mini-blog of sorts to chronicle my progression through the sequel. I'll gather general thoughts on any subject that crosses my mind here.

I'm 11 hours into the game, in chapter 2, having chosen Roche's path at the end of chapter 1. So far I've enjoyed the sequel immensely more than its predecessor for reasons I detailed in the other thread.

I actually know what the plot is about now. Characters have proper introductions and distinct motivations. The combat system doesn't suck donkey ass. The gameplay is no longer 80% trudging the same terrain. Conversations have tension and stakes. The character models no longer look like comical fish people. And my God, the visuals! The game looks absolutely incredible for 2011. The lighting is simply amazing to look at.

I have a huge soft spot for games with lots of lush vegetation, like the original Crysis, and chapter 1 in Flotsam was practically a wet dream in that regard. Chapter 2 doesn't skimp on the underbrush either, though it does get annoying in one quest where you have to seek corpses to burn, and I must have spent like an hour just running around the area trying to find the last one.

I've heard the second game to be a sort of scaled down version of the first one. So far that's only been a positive thing. Less running around the same areas and a tighter focus can only improve the game. There's more personality to the world overall, like the Odrin sidequest (which I specifically sought to do as soon as possible just so those drunk soldiers would shut the hell up), which still ties into the main narrative. Or the small humorous moment where some thugs come to the lover's statue under which Geralt and Triss are getting their mack on, and the one dwarf who hears their moans thinks he's in love.

Of the new characters Roche is undoubtedly my favorite so far. He seems like he's bound to have some twist or agenda revealed about him as inevitably as the tides, but so far I like him. I just dig the kind of character that shows professionalism in their work, but doesn't hide their humanity either. For me the moment where I actually uttered "I like dis guy!" out loud was when he found Geralt and Triss in the elven bathhouse. It just felt like such a warm little human moment in such an otherwise bleak game.

Well, those are some initial thoughts. Stay tuned for moar. Or don't.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

The Witcher 2 is a lot shorter than the first one so you should be able to replay it and get to the other location after Flotsam. The good and highly memorable one compared to Kaedweni camp. Even the music is better. Roche is a cool guy, but he's also the "what you see is what you get" kind of guy. No twists and turns. Iorveth on the other hand is a lot more complex than you think.

On my first playthrough I went with Roche as well. Never again after my second playthrough. And I played through it about five or six times through the years.

 

[IceForce]

"ORRRRRDRIIIIIIN, HERE BOY!" "ORRRRRDRIIIIIIIIIIIN, WHERE ARE YOUUUUUUU!?"

As others have said, the Iorveth path is infinitely better. I too followed Roche on my first playthrough because I trusted him and didn't want to piss him off. But as it turns out, he actually doesn't hate you for your decision.
Not only that, but the Iorveth quests and locations are better, and the quest-givers are a lot more likable (as opposed to Henselt/Dethmold, *cringe*).

Back when the game was all the rage, I didn't believe people either when they all told me it was better to side with Iorveth, - until I actually went back and replayed it and did so.

Additionally, (I think? I'm pretty sure) you get more exposition during the Iorveth path too, such as...

Spoiler

...learning the real identity of a certain winged creature near the end of the game, which you never learn when siding with Roche.

 

[The Madman]

I would have recommended Iorveth's route first, unlike "other games" not choosing Roche does not make him hate you forever since he is written by a sane writer and Iorveth's route is overall better in every way but the game is great for replaying regardless.

Not sure I agree with that. Iorveth's path is definitely the more colourful and potentially important to the overarching plot, but I still thought Roche's path had a lot more compelling emotional beats than Iorveth's.

"A flea... has bitten a lion!"

Good stuff. Plus Broche is awesome.

 

[IceForce]

Oh and, siding with Iorveth also allows you to bang a Succubus.

What's not to love?

 

[CritialGaming]

The Witcher 2 is a lot shorter than the first one so you should be able to replay it and get to the other location after Flotsam. The good and highly memorable one compared to Kaedweni camp. Even the music is better. Roche is a cool guy, but he's also the "what you see is what you get" kind of guy. No twists and turns. Iorveth on the other hand is a lot more complex than you think.

On my first playthrough I went with Roche as well. Never again after my second playthrough. And I played through it about five or six times through the years.

While you are technically correct. I feel like the Witcher 2 is a longer experience because it revolves around more gameplay. Witcher 1 had hours of back and forthing between npc coversations with nothing but running inbetween. While the Witcher 2 has, a much tighter story experience, with real fights and game inbetween those sections.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

While you are technically correct. I feel like the Witcher 2 is a longer experience because it revolves around more gameplay. Witcher 1 had hours of back and forthing between npc coversations with nothing but running inbetween. While the Witcher 2 has, a much tighter story experience, with real fights and game inbetween those sections.

The Witcher 2 is a really dense experience, especially compared to the original game. The areas are pretty small, but full of quests to do and things to see. Most of the fights, even the random "run into stuff in the woods" ones, carry some weight and pose a challenge, instead of just being hurdles to jump through. The Witcher 3 is the all around better game, but the Witcher 2 really knew how to do the most with its' limited resources.

Spoiler: spoilers for Roche path

But it just makes me feel bad for Roche, he has his men murdered and second in command raped... Iorveth's path is somehow happier for both of them

Roche's path is the bad choice in more ways then one. It provides less exposition and weaker sidequests and it has a lot bleaker ending for pretty much everyone involved.

 

[CritialGaming]

While you are technically correct. I feel like the Witcher 2 is a longer experience because it revolves around more gameplay. Witcher 1 had hours of back and forthing between npc coversations with nothing but running inbetween. While the Witcher 2 has, a much tighter story experience, with real fights and game inbetween those sections.

The Witcher 2 is a really dense experience, especially compared to the original game. The areas are pretty small, but full of quests to do and things to see. Most of the fights, even the random "run into stuff in the woods" ones, carry some weight and pose a challenge, instead of just being hurdles to jump through. The Witcher 3 is the all around better game, but the Witcher 2 really knew how to do the most with its' limited resources.

I figured as much. It was overall a better feeling and more fulfilling experience of a game, and therefore it felt longer to me. Plus Witcher 1 was boring as balls. I ended up just looking up a walkthrough to get through the damn thing. The Witcher 3 is one my top 5 greatest games ever made list.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

While you are technically correct, I feel like the Witcher 2 is a longer experience because it revolves around more gameplay.

I get what you're saying. It's definitely a more fulfilling and more memorable experience. There's not a lot of busywork like useless fetch quests that should never count as gameplay. The content that is there is quite memorable. It counts as genuine experience unlike a lot of stuff in The Witcher 1. But it's also a bit rough around the edges with combat sometimes being a bit unresponsive and fist fighting being just QTE's, no dedicated jump button etc. Still, I love The Witcher 2 to death and I will gladly replay it again this summer.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

A part of me wants to replay The Witcher 2, but the other part says finish your other games first; not to mention I still haven't played 3 at all.

Also, speaking of lush vegetation, has OP played Uncharted 4 yet? I literally would stand around and walk through different parts of it just to watch it move around me. So beautiful. Horizon: Zero Dawn and GR: Wildlands are up there as well, but most if not all of it isn't reactive to player movement.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Can anyone confirm if the loot drops in Witcher 2 are RNG-based or not? I think this would weigh most heavily on a replay taking precedence over my considerable backlog.

Thanks for any info.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Well, chapter 2 over and done with. I'll probably reload an older save once I've completed the game and choose Iorveth's path to see what the fuss is about.

Boy howdy did it go grim by the end. Full on Game of Thrones "and then everybody died". Add to that the fact that I straight up failed the sidequest with the soldier who shit himself by siding with the wraith, and that basically everyone you work with in the chapter turns out to be a raging cockhole, the chapter ended with a hefty dose of downer. At the end I chose to spare Henselt, because I felt doing the very thing Geralt was supposed to be clearing his name of would have been counterintuitive.

What most let chapter 2 down was the environment it took place in. The plot threads were engaging and the sidequests too, but having them all take place in samey fields, tunnels and ravines really dragged it down. Roche's characterization felt a bit inconsistent by the end to me. Isn't he supposed to be the kind of guy who slits throats for breakfast and operates in the shadiest of operations? For him to get so personal with Henselt for his unit felt like it didn't really match with him. I still chose going to Sile's house in the end, not Iorveth's, because like I said, he's a raging racist asshole. Roche is no angel either, but his introduction is much more affable than Iorveth's, who just straight up tries to murder Geralt.

Oh, and now that I've gotten upgrades the combat is actually fun. Well, at least compared to what it used to be. Enemies feel like they have way too much health for their own good, but that might be because I've mostly been using light attacks. But the ghost commander boss fight still highlighted problems with the system, and how insanely unforgiving it can be. I'm repeating myself, but it really felt like Dark Souls without blocking, I-frames or even the ability to heal yourself, which in a boss fight with that massive a health bar becomes a plain negative. Also, the hit detection with that boss seemed really off. I'd be whacking his armor with no hits registering at all for some reason.

Well, onward to chapter 3!

 

[MysticSlayer]

unlike "other games" not choosing Roche does not make him hate you forever since he is written by a sane writer

I actually found Roche's lack of anger at choosing Iorveth to be unbelievable. He risked his reputation to rescue Geralt under the promise that Geralt would slay whoever killed Foltest. Not only did Geralt abandon him, but Geralt ran off with the Scoia'tael. Along with be rather racist and holding a grudge against the Scoia'tael, Roche also was shown to have a pretty short temper. The fact that he trusts Geralt despite the betrayal and shows little to no resentment towards Geralt's decisions just seemed completely unbelievable. Heck, I'd expect a character more forgiving and patient than Roche to require more time than Roche to stop hating and start trusting Geralt, let alone someone as temperamental as Roche.

 

[The Madman]

Roche's characterization felt a bit inconsistent by the end to me. Isn't he supposed to be the kind of guy who slits throats for breakfast and operates in the shadiest of operations? For him to get so personal with Henselt for his unit felt like it didn't really match with him. I still chose going to Sile's house in the end, not Iorveth's, because like I said, he's a raging racist asshole. Roche is no angel either, but his introduction is much more affable than Iorveth's, who just straight up tries to murder Geralt.

Roche and Iorveth are both horrible people who have done horrible things. Iorveth is a ruthless terrorist unafraid to hurt the innocent if it means furthering his cause, while Roche is a jackbooted thug that follows orders regardless of morality. What makes them neat is that both aren't defined entirely by their actions. Play the Iorveth path and you'll discover he's a bit of a jaded idealist and romantic, struggling to cope with a world that refuses to give him and his people a chance. Roche meanwhile, well, he's Broche. His main defining characteristic is loyalty. Earn his loyalty, be ye King Foltest, Temmeria, one of his soldiers, or even a friendly stranger and he will march into the pits of hell at your side no matter the odds.

And yeah, as others have pointed out already the Roche path gets pretty Game of Throney with brutality, betrayal, and murder seemingly around every corner. The Iorveth path by comparison is a fair bit brighter and optimistic, plus takes place in the more lush and beautiful area surrounding that Dwarven town which is why so many people prefer it.

Anyway glad you're enjoying this game.

Spoiler: spoilers for Roche path

But it just makes me feel bad for Roche, he has his men murdered and second in command raped... Iorveth's path is somehow happier for both of them

You're not wrong...

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Well, the game just crashed conveniently for me to vent my frustration. The combat in this game is at best good, and at worst an unfair exercise in frustration. Here's a bright idea: escort mission. With this dumb as shit partner AI with the self preservation instict of a toddler, and the durability of a piece of wet toilet paper. With enemies who have way way way too much fucking health. Who all gang up on the NPC you're supposed to protect, and who kill you in 4-5 hits. While archers plink at you from a distance. When I have to reload the mission for the 8th time in 10 minutes, I don't feel like I'm fighting enemies, but the system itself. I don't feel like there's a challenge when 3 enemies gang up on this dumb ***** and I have neither the means to a) aggro them towards myself nor b) tell her to stay the hell away. It feels unfair, like expecting me to hammer in a nail with a sneaker.

After chapter 2 felt like the frustrations I had would mostly fade away, they're right back in again with this encounter. Now that I have an NPC to protect, none of the techniques that I normally use work: dodging means getting away from the enemies, allowing them to gang up on the NPC. Riposting takes time, allowing the enemies to murder her while I'm waiting for the animation to play out. Bombs do such pitiful damage they're basically useless. Trying to split the enemies up is useless since they have so much health it takes several dozen swings to bring just one down (at least it feels like it). When the only option is to change the difficulty setting, it only reinforces the feeling that the devs really didn't understand the strengths of their combat system, and as a result the difficulty zigzags up and down maniacally.

 

[kurupt87]

I don't even remember an escort mission.

Had to google it, I still don't remember it.

So it defnitely didn't cause me any problems; I know that because I really enjoyed this game and would remember a speedbump like an escort mission (which are a pet peeve of mine, and everybody elses) being a dick.

If you're having trouble killing human enemies that aren't the Order of the Flaming Rose then I really think you have skimped on upgrading your gear.

Edit: And saying that, I remember now that when replaying that game I do the side missions in a certain order, to get gear first. Because some missions are pretty damn hard without good gear from the current chapter.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Okay, so apparently it wasn't the enemies having too much health. It was Geralt holding the SILVER sword from a previous encounter. WELL HOW FUCKING DELIGHTFUL THAT THE GAME HAS A CLEAR INDICATOR OF WHICH SWORD I AM HOLDING!!! I'M DEFINITELY GOING TO BE LOOKING AT SPECIFIC SHEATHS ON GERALT'S BACK IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ENEMY ENCOUNTER!! THANKS A WHOLE FUCKING BUNCH!! It's not like Geralt, I dunno, automatically unsheathes whatever sword is necessary for the encounter if you sheathe it in between.

Fuck!

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Oh yeah, that happened a few times

In The Witcher 3 you never have to worry about that. Geralt always unsheathes the appropriate sword without player input. But personally I like to disable that option and just do it myself. That makes it more immersive for me. That option was a mod for the PC version at first, but due to high demand from players CDPR added it as an official option so even console players can now enjoy it.