Exterminas said:
Actually, western civilization only really started to develop when we threw off the shackles of religious dogma. The christian dark ages (when the church called the shots on EVERYTHING) is a dark, horrible period of western civilization.
This is wrong on so many levels.
I will try listing them all.
Okay. When exactly was that point we broke free of the shackles? Please name a date. You will realize that there isn't an exact date for that. But for the sake of the argument, let's pick the age of reformation about 1550-1600. So lets take a look at everything mankind has achieved during these years, starting with the year zero, conveniently the start of christianity.
The roman empire adapted christianity and soon afterwards fell apart, leaving central europe in peril. (This is the dark part of the dark ages) From that peril rose Francia that gave europe some of it's oldest cities with their infrastructure, their cathedrals and castles.
The punchline about this empire is that is was only able to exist due to christianity. Because in the void left by the romans a multitude of tribes, nations and religions struggeled for dominance. It was Karl der Große, who cleared the battleflied through miilitary dominance. But to keep his empire he had to unite it. He did it by enforcing christianity as the state religion, giving everony a common mark.
After Francia we had the Holy Roman Empire and nations like France and Burgundy that remained powerful and important for centuries. Most of the nations that formed in these times are still somewhat represented today. As are their technologies, like census, banking, engineering, masonry, mining and metalcrafting.
The dark ages weren't a curse that fell upon the world, they were the result of the mess that the romans left behind due to their corrupt and decadent system and a neccesary period of reorganization.
Sure they were a brutal time with a lot of wars and suffering fo the common man, but then again, so was almost every other time in human history. Human rights and individual wealth are new things. So in what way exaclty were the dark ages any darker than other periods of time?
You see, I am an atheist myself. I understand everyone who wants to badmouth religion, because I don't think they are a useful thing to have. But it is just silly and uninformed to say something like "the world has never benefited from christianity"
