Civilization: Beyond Earth Could Be Alpha Centauri 2 Without the Name

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

I found that to be a central part of military strategy. I didn't like it at first, but it means an enemy can see what's approaching easier and at least try properly defend against it. Your movements had to be more carefully planned.

Eh... I still prefer stacking, as large campaigns often end up with most of my territory covered in troops in preparation, and turns it into a logistical mess to move them all in unison.

 

[Icehearted]

I grabbed Alpha Centauri from GOG a while back but never got around to playing it. Reading the comments has me thinking it's about time I did. That said my first and last thought are mostly on balancing, and how I hope they balance this game to be exciting in late game periods better than Civ5 did.

 

[Drummodino]

Hell. Yes. Cannot wait to play this, I absolutely adore Civ V. Between Brave New World, XCOM and now this, Firaxis is turning out to be one of my favourite developers these days.

Give it some space, so to speak.

I see what you did there xD

 

[spartandude]

Its times like this i remember why i still like this industry. Im just hoping they make it more like Alpha Centauri and not just a Civ V with space textures.

 

[Frankster]

Tbh I really don't like the sound of satellites, they just seem to be a right pain especially if they degrade with time and you gotta monitor their statuses...Can see it being SO exciting late game when you have tons of the things in the air.

 

[EiMitch]

I'm fine with CBE trying to be very distinct from AC, but under two conditions:

1) Either at launch or some point soon thereafter, Firaxis releases an official AC scenario for CBE. Even better if its free bonus content as opposed to paid DLC.

2) No more mandatory-online DRM bs. Seriously, who still believes DRM is about fighting piracy as opposed to controlling paying customers?

Well, Okay. Just the second condition. The first will probably be fulfilled by fan mods anyway. But whether fan-made or official, it'd better have a good story like the original AC and not just cosmetic similarities. Or else... ... Okay, I've got nothing to back-up that "or else." But CBE still better not have DRM that pesters me beyond installation, or I'll raise hell, somehow... ...or I'll just not buy it. Which would be a shame, since CBE does sound good on its own merits, assuming the developers at Firaxis aren't lying.

What? Are you going to tell me that you still trust reputable developers after Gearbox promised us chocolate and then dumped a steamy "Aliens: Colonial Marines" all over us? I can't trust anyone anymore. I'm scarred for life.

 

[alasyon]

I wet my pants when I read the title. Alpha Centauri is my favourite game of all time - after 14 years I still play it for a couple of days every few months. The satellite idea is good - will help keep players from becoming unbeatable. I only hope they create personalities and atmosphere that are on par (though if all else fails - fan mods).

 

[alasyon]

4) Multiple victory condition option. One victory condition can be more of a pain or easier, often depending on your Civ and play style. But toss in a "two victories" requirement and it could revolutionize late-game play. Suddenly, with one victory condition out of the way, other Civs now either need to siege the victorious civ, shift their development to other goals, or expedite existing goals to meet the victory requirements.

Yes, one thousand times, yes. It could forge unholy alliances and add another element of suspense to the endgame. Would encourage players to progress towards multiple victory conditions simultaneously, so that they can achieve their second (or third, etc) victory condition quickly after reaching the first.

 

[alasyon]

I found that to be a central part of military strategy. I didn't like it at first, but it means an enemy can see what's approaching easier and at least try properly defend against it. Your movements had to be more carefully planned.

Eh... I still prefer stacking, as large campaigns often end up with most of my territory covered in troops in preparation, and turns it into a logistical mess to move them all in unison.

Maybe realistic stacking, limited to a certain number of troops depending on what type they are - the strategy is cool but cumbersome and unrealistic. But of course, keep the collateral damage ala Alpha Centauri.

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

1) Either at launch or some point soon thereafter, Firaxis releases an official AC scenario for CBE. Even better if its free bonus content as opposed to paid DLC.

Actually, they legally can't. They don't hold the rights for the original Alpha Centauri, EA does [http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2014/04/12/alpha-mail-firaxis-announces-sid-meiers-civilization-beyond-earth/].[footnote]Ironically, EA probably can't develop a Alpha Centauri title because if they do it properly, they could be sued for copyright infringement of Civilization or, if they tried to deviate enough to overcome that hurtle, the game would probably be a bust after core players revolt.[/footnote] Be happy we're getting this game at all.

 

[EiMitch]

Actually, they legally can't. They don't hold the rights for the original Alpha Centauri, EA does [http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2014/04/12/alpha-mail-firaxis-announces-sid-meiers-civilization-beyond-earth/].

Ironically, EA probably can't develop a Alpha Centauri title because if they do it properly, they could be sued for copyright infringement of Civilization or, if they tried to deviate enough to overcome that hurtle, the game would probably be a bust after core players revolt.

Be happy we're getting this game at all.

Then Firaxis can pay EA for the rights. (what else but money does EA want?) Or they can just call it something else and replace all the characters and factions with superficially new ones. All the artwork and gameplay would necessarily be different either way, so why not? Its not that hard to pander to us AC fans, so long as they don't just hack it.

Besides, I'm talking about a scenario/mod. The idea is to supplement the CBE core experience, not replace it.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Wow....

Leave it to Civ to make one emotional, beautiful trailer. I'm in tears.

Nor really, I am crying right now. Not because I am happy to see a Alpha Centari reboot (which I am, by the way) but rather because its presented its theme so beautifully. Humanity struggles and constantly fails but through innovation and cooperating which transcends boarders and cultures our species can do the impossible. Not even the stars are beyond our reach.

Sorry, that trailer put me in a mood. Looking forward to the game!

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

Then Firaxis can pay EA for the rights. (what else but money does EA want?)

No company is just going to buy a license for a single game or movie. They'll buy it for an extended use (Think Spiderman or X-Men). If Firaxis get's its hands on a license, then the rights EA owns will effectively be even more worthless than they were before.

Or, in short, sometimes it's not about the money. Sometimes you hold a chip because you don't want the other guy to have it.

Or they can just call it something else and replace the all characters and factions with superficially new ones. All the artwork and gameplay would necessarily be different either way, so why not? Its not that hard to pander to us AC fans, so long as they don't just hack it.

That's exactly what this game is trying to be. Alpha Centauri without the "Alpha Centauri" part.

Besides, I'm talking about a scenario/mod. The idea is to supplement the CBE core experience, not replace it.

And I'm saying it doesn't matter. The IP rights are owned by EA, and anything that stems from that IP becomes their's in the absence of an agreement to the contrary under US copyright law. Since it's fairly clear EA has no intention of selling one of the most coveted IPs in gaming, then Firaxis has to do this in order to create the sequel without the rights to it. If they create an official full-game conversion of Alpha Centauri, then any revenue EA can reasonably trace to that mod/scenario would be forfeit to EA.

 

[EiMitch]

That's exactly what this game is trying to be. Alpha Centauri without the "Alpha Centauri" part.

Wrong. CBE is going to be a bit more different than that. Or didn't you read the preview article?

CBE isn't going to focus on a story of one particular planet like AC did. This implies more varieties of terrain and life-forms functionally different than those found in AC's Chiron. As well as a much different story. Basically more than just the minimum changes needed to avoid a lawsuit or make it work with the Civ5 engine.

I was talking about superficial differences in a scenario/mod that is more like AC than the main CBE game. They could call it the Chiron scenario or something. They could keep the AC story and xeno-flora/fauna with only the minimum legally necessary differences.

Do you understand what I'm saying, or are we destined to split semantic hairs?

No company is just going to buy a license for a single game or movie. They'll buy it for an extended use (Think Spiderman or X-Men). If Firaxis get's its hands on a license, then the rights EA owns will effectively be even more worthless than they were before.

Then why can't Firaxis just flat-out buy it from EA? All EA is getting out of it right now is whatever its worth on GOG.

Having said that, maybe Firaxis could hold-off on an "official" AC scenario for a later expansion pack. Let EA collect a few more bucks from their deal with GOG until its hardly worth keeping anymore. I'd pay for such an expansion pack if it meant seeing the AC franchise live again.

...unless, like I said before, its saddled with obsessive control-freak DRM. Nothing is worth putting up with that.

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

That's exactly what this game is trying to be. Alpha Centauri without the "Alpha Centauri" part.

Wrong. CBE is going to be a bit more different than that. Or didn't you read the preview article?

CBE isn't going to focus on a story of one particular planet like AC did. This implies more varieties of terrain and life-forms functionally different than those found in AC's Chiron. As well as a much different story. Basically more than just the minimum changes needed to avoid a lawsuit or make it work with the Civ5 engine.

Here's the stuff they stated was new and why I'm not calling it new (The big test being "if they could make AC2 with a license, would they have not done this"):

1) New Tileset/geological features ("There will be a wider array of geologic features on the map, so the planet itself will feel a lot more alien and strange") - If you're making a new game, this should almost be a given. So, no, I'm not calling this a new thing.

2)Different Tech Structure ("The advancement of technology will no longer be generally linear, as it is in Civ, but a "technology web" which will allow you to choose research in three different branches. The branches will coincide with different win-conditions, but they wouldn't tell me exactly what those win conditions will be yet.") - It really depends on how they implement this, because shifting from a linear to a radial design for the tech tree and having more branches isn't that much of a change. For now, I'm skeptical that it's going to be revolutionary or even a particularly new feature, but there is certainly the potential for it to be.

3) Satellite overhaul - The original AC had satellites. Overhauling those mechanics after almost two decades might not be a bad idea.

4) Quest system instead of AC's story system - This strikes me more as a deliberate move by Firaxis to avoid litigation over AC's story while converting it to a more interactive experience. It is new, but I can't see this being different in a 2014 version of a AC sequel.

5) Pre-landing preparation ("There is a set of 8 factions, but players can choose their colonists, cargo, and choice of spacecraft during the seeded start, each of which gives them a different outcome when the game starts") - This would be a logical extension of a game revolving around planetary colonization. While a version of AC would certainly be different (you would likely be divvying up cargo in competition of the other factions), if an AC sequel attempted to retell the entire mechanical malfunction of the planet, then this mechanic would probably be in play.

In short, this is a spiritual sequel to Alpha Centauri, with the dev team almost saying it bluntly in these interviews. That's not a bad thing. AC was a great game, but after 15 years they should have some innovations.

I was talking about superficial differences in a scenario/mod that is more like AC than the main CBE game. They could call it the Chiron scenario or something. They could keep the AC story and xeno-flora/fauna with only the minimum legally necessary differences.

Except US copyright law sees those similarities as overriding as the story itself is a major part of the copyright. You can't write your own story using concepts, settings, or characters that primarily originate in Harry Potter for commercial purposes[footnote]with the exception of purposes that require reference to them such as parody, but such references must be absolutely necessary to be upheld.[/footnote], and, in the same way, Firaxis can't do the same using the story and concept aspects of AC.

Do you understand what I'm saying, or are we destined to split semantic hairs?

To put it bluntly, no, this isn't splitting hairs. You're proposing that Firaxis violate an existing copyright held by another party outright. No attorney is going to advise Firaxis that that is a good idea. Hell, I imagine their in house counsel is already sweating bullets and praying they don't receive a "cease and desist" letter from EA. If they're a smart counsel, they've gone over the design documents and been CC'ed on every design change to make sure the game is distinct enough to pass legal muster, because if it doesn't, they're going to be sued.

No company is just going to buy a license for a single game or movie. They'll buy it for an extended use (Think Spiderman or X-Men). If Firaxis get's its hands on a license, then the rights EA owns will effectively be even more worthless than they were before.

Then why can't Firaxis just flat-out buy it from EA? All EA is getting out of it right now is whatever its worth on GOG.

Because EA doesn't have to sell it. It's their right and their license. If they want to sit on it and do nothing other than collect a small royalty from GOG, they are fully within their rights to do so. Firaxis can't get a court to force them to turn over those rights until those rights expire 70 years after Brian Reynolds dies.

Having said that, maybe Firaxis could hold-off on an "official" AC scenario for a later expansion pack. Let EA collect a few more bucks from their deal with GOG until its hardly worth keeping anymore. I'd pay for such an expansion pack if it meant seeing the AC franchise live again.

This is a possibility, but, again, you have to get EA to agree to it. Without that, that expansion pack will probably get pulled, or, if you're lucky, all the money aside from development costs will go straight to EA.

...unless, like I said before, its saddled with obsessive control-freak DRM. Nothing is worth putting up with that.

So... no Steam then? Because that's what Steam is...

I can handle DRM to a limited extent. I think Steam is probably the best middle-ground option, because, like it or not, piracy is a problem, and the best way to combat piracy is to make purchasing the game easy. Sooner or later, we'll find a better way, but for now, we're stuck with the system we have.

 

[Ranorak]

I found that to be a central part of military strategy. I didn't like it at first, but it means an enemy can see what's approaching easier and at least try properly defend against it. Your movements had to be more carefully planned.

Eh... I still prefer stacking, as large campaigns often end up with most of my territory covered in troops in preparation, and turns it into a logistical mess to move them all in unison.

Maybe realistic stacking, limited to a certain number of troops depending on what type they are - the strategy is cool but cumbersome and unrealistic. But of course, keep the collateral damage ala Alpha Centauri.

Personally, I'm a fan of the current non-stacky system, but I could see how a Fleet-point system could work.
I forgot if it was Galactic Civilization 2 or Endless Space, but one of them had a Logistics cap.
Some (in this case ships, but it could work for units) ships had 1 point, some 2 depending on their power, and you could make a fleet of 5 points. The more you researched in the Logistics tree the bigger the cap became. Up to a point.

 

[Wanicochil]

People need to stop being all like "OMFG it's Alpha Centauri 2!!?!?!115!"
It is going to fail if people keep going a long these lines because it won't be enough like Alpha Centauri that people will start bitching, instead of letting it be it's own thing

I have already heard other comments stating that it's not going to be exactly like Alpha Centauri therefore it's bad
Jesus people, let it be it's own thing

 

[alasyon]

I found that to be a central part of military strategy. I didn't like it at first, but it means an enemy can see what's approaching easier and at least try properly defend against it. Your movements had to be more carefully planned.

Eh... I still prefer stacking, as large campaigns often end up with most of my territory covered in troops in preparation, and turns it into a logistical mess to move them all in unison.

Maybe realistic stacking, limited to a certain number of troops depending on what type they are - the strategy is cool but cumbersome and unrealistic. But of course, keep the collateral damage ala Alpha Centauri.

Personally, I'm a fan of the current non-stacky system, but I could see how a Fleet-point system could work.
I forgot if it was Galactic Civilization 2 or Endless Space, but one of them had a Logistics cap.
Some (in this case ships, but it could work for units) ships had 1 point, some 2 depending on their power, and you could make a fleet of 5 points. The more you researched in the Logistics tree the bigger the cap became. Up to a point.

That would be great - a limit that is a function of both the unit type and tech tree bonuses. That could work really well, giving the best of both worlds.