Civilization IV (Let's go for one more turn)

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Hey Joe

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Dec 23, 2007
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I have a confession to make. I have never been a good general. I tend to?panic when things start going wrong and Mongolians start rampaging through my lands like they?d just taken out the Great Wall. I get flustered when Romans march into my territory in neatly formed columns, forcing my little citizens to worship the pagan god du jour. The funny thing is that I know exactly what to do in this situation.

Set all my production to military units and launch a counter offensive, while making sure that border cities have plenty of defensive units to defend, and I should be able to hold out long enough to sign a peace accord, and maybe take a couple of their cities while I?m at it. But no, I panic.

You want to know why I panic? Simple, I don?t like to see my citizens unhappy. As a peacenik from way back when, I can?t stand it when my virtual citizens can?t have their theatre or their library. I can just see them sitting in circles singing ?Masters of War? and frankly it kills my eardrums (just like when Dylan hits a high sustain).

This approach, in the past itinerations of the Civ series has not worked out all that well. The question is, does the introduction of religion serve to fuel the fires of war, or set up a realistic victory condition?

Well, it?s a hard victory to achieve, but it does make gameplay a heck of a lot easier on a peacenik like me.

You see, the great thing about founding a religion and then spreading it to your near neighbours, is that they?ll like you more. Well, not exactly like, they?ll?tolerate your puny presence just long enough for you to get a good economy going.

Fantastic! I can finally live out all my utopian dreams without being harassed by angry Mongols! I can build all those wonderful things that I?ve dreamed of, all those centres of culture that will allow my culture score to go through the roof. My virtual citizens will laugh at the Mongols trying to get a good sound out of those two sicks and I?ll be free to micromanage to my hearts content.

I?ve never been in this position before. My mighty capital city is the centre of culture, other civilizations are in awe of our minstrels and commercial output. I start cranking out Great People like they were candy. I begin to look upon them with disdain, they seem primitive?and their land looks mighty tempting.

Do I dare put on my warmongering hat and go kill me some uncouth types? As I bring up my diplomacy screen and my mouse finger hovers over the button, I feel a rush that is surely only reserved for the titans of history.

It?s war baby! I start cranking out units like they were candy and I rush the Mongols like the Giants rushed Tom Brady on Super bowl Sunday! YEE-HAW! I take one of their cities and all of a sudden this game doesn?t seem so hard anymore. Is this Civilization-lite? How can it be this easy?

?Just one more turn? I say to myself?the rush is just fantastic. I really wish I hadn?t have said that.

I look at my cities, and all of a sudden all hell breaks loose. There?s uproar, rioting and generally perceived bad sportsmanship everywhere! Hey! What gives virtual citizens!? Don?t you have everything you could ask for? I can understand a few of you are against war, but this is ridiculous! Damn peaceniks!

I click to see why their collective panties are in a twist, and as it turns out, my citizens don?t like it when I attack their religious brethren. Sid Meier you sadistic genius. As my production count goes down, and suddenly I find myself on the losing side of a war I started, I can?t help but to see a bit of flawed ambition.

Has the new religion victory type become so in the forefront of the game that a military victory has to take a backseat? If you don?t found a religion, you WILL have one brought to you by your neighbours, with the added stigma of having none of the gameplay benefits of founding a religion.

As I?ve found out, it?s mighty hard to invade a civilization that is the same religion as your own. The race for religious dominance has now become as important as the rush for land at the outset of the game.

So the question is, has this game become unfairly skewed toward the peaceful player? Well, there ain?t no substitute for eight tank units bearing down on an opponent, but it feels as if the diplomatic, religious and space race victories are easier to achieve.

I got to thinking about the reason why this could be over the weekend, and then I cast my mind back to previous games where I have been steamrolled during the middle ages. The change, it seems, prevents this from happening and allows the player to enjoy a fuller game experience, and opens up game play options that previous players may not have so much nous in.

If you?re militaristic by nature, this game may just seem a little biased toward the tree-huggers and astronauts, and that?s probably true. Sid Meier has really tried to implement multi-player into this game, and he doesn?t want the newbies to be scared off my by masses of units swarming all over them.

Ultimately, Civilization IV gets the player to focus on other areas apart from production and unit churning. Whether that?s a good thing or not is up to you.
 

runtheplacered

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Oct 31, 2007
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"Games like Caesar, Pharoah, Zeus, Civ, Settlers, etc tend to irritate me because I choose them for the fun of city design and always lose interest once the barbarians at the gate fudge my mojo."

Why not just play SimCity 4 or Simcity Societies then? (aside from the fact that SC Societies is a horrible game.) War has always had a great deal to do with the Civilization series.

"Oh, and the title-screen song from Civ4 is addictive."

I agree.. but I'd go further then that.. and say a good majority of the music is quite good, as well as the sound effects. I really enjoy lighting up some inscense, slapping on some headphones and zoning out to the atmosphere of Civ4.. they really nailed it in this game, I think.

My main problem with Civilization IV, however, is that it is a pretty watered down Civ simulator. But I won't go into it any further then that right now. It's a great game and that's all that I need to say about it, at this time.

"but I did feel the construction aspect dulled down compared to say Zeus."

I've never played Zeus.. I'll have to look that one up. Thanks for the recommandation.
 

Hey Joe

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Dec 23, 2007
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I've never seen the Civilization series as a city simulator, I've seen it more as an omnipotent empire simulator. I like dealing with the problems of over-extending myself, clamoring for land at the start game and slowly winning allies through strong trade connections. United Nations FTW!

*Runs off to find a copy of Zeus*
 

REDPill357

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I've never really liked the Civ series. I could never move an army or take a city or do anything. I prefer Rome: Total War because you actually take the city personally, by leading your troops in using tactics and everything.
 

Sniper_Zegai

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Ive always had an odd relationship with Civilization, for some reason I love the game but I just suck at it. Ive never won a game, Im good at biulding cities and stuff but I suck so much ass at defending myself against enemy armies, my soldiers are never on par with the enemies and just when I think I have enough technology and numbers to compete they pull something new out of the bag.

I'll always love it though, I just wish it was a little easier.
 

Damn Dirty Ape

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Oct 10, 2007
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So the question is, has this game become unfairly skewed toward the peaceful player?
As a civ4 player I can say yes, it is. But so far I haven't really found a rts at all that makes you go peacefully towards a win. There was one game of a player as Ghandi, that build no military units what so ever and won a diplo victory. This was because he kept everybody as his friends by being their ***** basically, having everybody the same religion and giving into all tech demands. It's possible, but it's more frustrating then fun I think.

You see if you don't have a sizeble military, your power graph drops. If it's low enough, AI will attack. Most will do this even if they're friendly ( every leader has it's own personality, their are graphs you can download ) and will clobber you down as an easy kill. I"m sure you can win relatively peacefull on low difficulty settings, but noble and above just no. You almost always will compete for land, you will have to take out or at least damage that rampant culture civ and you will have to watch our for people backstabbing or backstab yourself.
Yes you can cultureflip, you can spam missionaries, etc. But all this takes time, and every turn this takes you're better off building an army most of the time and just wipe out that pesky civ of the map. I'm a culture player myself, but I always find myself in a war sooner or later.
 

Hey Joe

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Damn Dirty Ape said:
I"m sure you can win relatively peacefull on low difficulty settings, but noble and above just no. You almost always will compete for land, you will have to take out or at least damage that rampant culture civ and you will have to watch our for people backstabbing or backstab yourself.
I found that by holding a good number of defensive units, the AI usually will be warded off attacking your civilization. Of course it is virtually impossible to avert war what with the competition for land and resources, but I usually try not to instigate a war. The thing about Civ IV is that it is really hard to instigate, and sustain a conflict with a neighbor with the same religion as you. By playing defensively rather than aggressively, I've found that it is possible to win with a peaceful victory condition at higher levels.

In fact, I've found it easier to win through a peaceful condition in Civ IV than a militaristic victory, whereas in previous versions of the Civilization series the opposite was true.

P.S- Does anybody miss the Elvis culture advisor from Civ2? "Hail to the King baby"
 

Damn Dirty Ape

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Hey Joe said:
Damn Dirty Ape said:
I"m sure you can win relatively peacefull on low difficulty settings, but noble and above just no. You almost always will compete for land, you will have to take out or at least damage that rampant culture civ and you will have to watch our for people backstabbing or backstab yourself.
I found that by holding a good number of defensive units, the AI usually will be warded off attacking your civilization. Of course it is virtually impossible to avert war what with the competition for land and resources, but I usually try not to instigate a war. The thing about Civ IV is that it is really hard to instigate, and sustain a conflict with a neighbor with the same religion as you. By playing defensively rather than aggressively, I've found that it is possible to win with a peaceful victory condition at higher levels.
I didn't mean victory conditions ( I never go for conquest ) but it's just easier to weaken enemy civs, capture that awesome city of huana capac instead of getting their by peace. They are a pain sometimes tradewise, they'll never give up a city no matter how crappy in any normal trade, they will backstab you if you get to powerfull, etc. Of course keeping up the defence units keeps up the powergraph, but you'll always have a stack waiting in case of invasion and building military units in the first place is not very peacefull ;)
 

sun_and_earth

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Feb 28, 2008
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I was never very good at Civ games. There was just way too much stuff to keep track of and no matter how many military units I built, there would always be some neighboring Civ with ten times more who would promptly declare war on me and raze my capital to the ground within five turns.
 

Anarchemitis

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Dec 23, 2007
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I adore Sid Meier's games.
Gamespot Trailer Commentary said:
...Games that are always easy to pick up and play, yet challenging to master.
And it's nice to still have [not Japanese] turn-based games to slow things down once in a while, in this GO! GO! GO! modern world.
 

Saskwach

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Hey Joe said:
P.S- Does anybody miss the Elvis culture advisor from Civ2? "Hail to the King baby"
He WAS my advisor! Oh, sure the others had their own things going on and I respected that, but there was nothing quite like Elvis' approval.
 

gamshobny

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Apr 13, 2008
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Hey Joe said:
Ultimately, Civilization IV gets the player to focus on other areas apart from production and unit churning.
It does? Never realy noticed anything of that. Anyways, I always adopt free religion whenever I can, so the whole religion thing you're talking about kindoff sliped by me, I guess.