Cleaning up Steam, your suggestions?

[BrotherRool]

I don't agree that Steam needs to curate games to any great extent. But what they do need to do is

1. Offer refunds. You can curate your games, or you can offer refunds. You can't allow crud onto your platform and then not allow people to get their money back. Other platforms curate games and offer refunds.
2. Emphasise community feedback mechanisms. Again it's fine to be a platform for all games, but you need to provide ways for people to avoid the crud ones. Community feedback is huge, making playtime statistics easily available might be good too.
3. Make the front page only show 'good' content. Whether it's curated or based on feedback mechanisms, the first thing a person sees should be a good game, not shovelware. The good games deserve to sell more and it benefits the platform if they do

2 and 3 are kind of open for abuse. Think of the divide between what people think of the yearly releases of Call of Duty.

That just means they need to be good robust mechanisms and more than a lazy 'did you like this game' sort of thing. In the end Amazon, Youtube, iTunes, Facebook etc live and die on their ability to accurately predict and show people the quality of their products.

I don't just mean having the community 1-10 ratings being more important, the number of people who buy a game, the number of people who buy a game and then go onto play it, or only play it for a short time, or the number of people who requested refunds, the metacritic score... all these are really important pieces of feedback that Steam should use visibly or invisibly to show us the good games. And they need find out which ones are key to predicting whether a game is good or not and then highlight them way more than they are now. Maybe you're browsing through games the metacritic score and user score should be visible from the search screen etc

There are also ways to protect the 1-10 rating. Instead of just giving an aggregate score, using systems which reflect whether a game is controversial or not might be better, something like rotten tomatoes. A game with a lot of good scores and a lot of bad scores deserves to be rated differently to a game with a lot of mediocre scores. That helps review bombing, because Call of Duty won't get many 7's, it'll get 1's and 9's

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well I won't hold them to the quality control demand because quite frankly they can seriously not be a gatekeeper of "good" games, especially now that they are practically a monopoly salesman for PC.
But they most certainly do need to implement full disclosure, do not fucking lie to me that some 20 year old shit is a new release, and by extent do not spam drown actual releases with games that have been around for donkeys years.
Won't claim they need to double check every game, but they do need to offer refunds when it turns out the shit they sell doesn't work or does so terribly, and I expect a giant ass disclaimer on the sales page that informs people of problems.
Also where are the fucking filters, every half arsed online shop has them but Steam can't figure it out.

And on the oh so clever "personal responsibility" comment, yes people are responsible to choose their purchase based on the information they get, but a store selling items based on false information is doing so illegally.

 

[-Dragmire-]

I don't agree that Steam needs to curate games to any great extent. But what they do need to do is

1. Offer refunds. You can curate your games, or you can offer refunds. You can't allow crud onto your platform and then not allow people to get their money back. Other platforms curate games and offer refunds.
2. Emphasise community feedback mechanisms. Again it's fine to be a platform for all games, but you need to provide ways for people to avoid the crud ones. Community feedback is huge, making playtime statistics easily available might be good too.
3. Make the front page only show 'good' content. Whether it's curated or based on feedback mechanisms, the first thing a person sees should be a good game, not shovelware. The good games deserve to sell more and it benefits the platform if they do

2 and 3 are kind of open for abuse. Think of the divide between what people think of the yearly releases of Call of Duty.

That just means they need to be good robust mechanisms and more than a lazy 'did you like this game' sort of thing. In the end Amazon, Youtube, iTunes, Facebook etc live and die on their ability to accurately predict and show people the quality of their products.

I don't just mean having the community 1-10 ratings being more important, the number of people who buy a game, the number of people who buy a game and then go onto play it, or only play it for a short time, or the number of people who requested refunds, the metacritic score... all these are really important pieces of feedback that Steam should use visibly or invisibly to show us the good games. And they need find out which ones are key to predicting whether a game is good or not and then highlight them way more than they are now. Maybe you're browsing through games the metacritic score and user score should be visible from the search screen etc

There are also ways to protect the 1-10 rating. Instead of just giving an aggregate score, using systems which reflect whether a game is controversial or not might be better, something like rotten tomatoes. A game with a lot of good scores and a lot of bad scores deserves to be rated differently to a game with a lot of mediocre scores. That helps review bombing, because Call of Duty won't get many 7's, it'll get 1's and 9's

I suppose, it just seems like what is considered 'good' is too broad a term when applied to games. It also doesn't help the new release section. Bad/non functional games that are newly released on steam(which may be old and unsupported) take screen space from games that deserve it, they may move off once people spread the word on how crap the game is but it can still screw over decent games released at the same time.

Your suggestion definitely would help weed out bad games but I think the damage of having them take front page space has already been dealt.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I think all games that are in a buggy unplayable state should be purged from Steam immediately. And no game should be put on the Steam that isn't at least 80% complete and also should be play tested before being put on the storefront.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

The number one thing that Steam absolutely needs right now is fucking refunds. The current system of there is no official refund system but unofficially everybody gets one if they're willing to wait weeks for Valve's ludicrously slow tech support was bad back when you could at least be reasonably certain that every game that they sold on the service at least worked. Now that Valve is selling non-functioning games that are essentially scams, it's downright unacceptable. Just have a simple system where if you have less than a certain amount of time played for a game and have owned the game for less than a certain amount of time, you can get a refund, no questions asked. I mean Steam already keeps track of how much time you've played a game, although admittedly not very well. There is absolutely no reason why this basic level of consumer protection isn't in the largest digital games distributor.

Also, I take issue with the reporting Steam games thing. Yes, it is strictly better than letting those games run rampant, but the idea that Valve, a company with hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue from Steam, can't check if the games that they're selling contain fraud or child exploitation is fucking absurd. It is not the community's job to make sure that games being sold on Steam possess basic levels of functionality and aren't scams. That's you're job Valve, and you need to take responsibility for it like the big boys that you are.

Honestly, after all this shit from Steam, I'm finding myself getting more and more games from GoG. It's a way better service, and it's from a company that actually seems to give a shit about it's customers.

 

[Bombiz]

Whether you like the titles on Steam or not they have a right to be there. They pay money to put their game up. At the end of the day Valve is a business (who gets roughly 30% of sales on Steam) and it's about making money. The only times games should be removed from Steam is when they are literally unplayable, meaning they don't launch or end support (there is a clause that the developer must support their games to an extent or be removed).

But shitty games can be bad for business. Especially if they clutter up the front page, and *especially* if people unwittingly buy them, through inadequate research or through false advertising, and then have to jump through hoops to attempt to get a refund.

I used to use the new releases page on Steam to look for interesting new games. I no longer do that; there's just too much garbage.

And TB addresses this in the video in the OP. The new releases page hardly means new releases anymore.

It's not Valve's job to hold your hand during a purchase. Buyer beware. Everyone should do research on a game not just blindly hit purchase because it might be interesting. Personal responsibility is going out the window these days. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean you deserve a refund.

They don't need to hold your hand but they should at least offer refunds. Hell even Origins has refunds.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

look fellas, youd be hard pressed to find someone who loves steam more than i, im certain if it wasnt because of it, me and a couple of friends wouldnt be into gaming, atleast not legally, thanks to trading i have been able to earn some awfully needed money off steam in the past, the company behind Steam, Valve, has made some of my favorite games ever and i deeply admire em for their pro-customer and pro-dev morals and their desire to push the industry foward


in short, all Glory to the Astute, Benevolent and Extraordinary Newell

HOWEVER!

recently there was been a huge influx of shovelware on steam, and while i didnt entirely dismiss the problem i thought it wasnt that big of a deal, until now, after reading about dead games being sold on the store and watching this TotalBiscuit video in which he shows an old game so badly ported to new systems, it needs to be burned into a CD in order to run properly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLNh5HPbQPo

the video also shows a few nice features which would help to clean up the storefront

personally i also think Valve could add a recommended selection to the store page, personalized just for you, they could use the data theyve gathered with the steam user reviews and game tags to provide a more or less accurate selection, they could even allow this selection to be refreshed each day or even each time you visit the storefront, im not talking about the recommended section btw, i mean something like "Recently updated" or "Featured PC games"


what features do you think steam needs to properly push quality games to the front page?

People need to stop being so reverential to valve and Steam. It's good but it needs to face fiercer criticism than it has done in the past. It seems to have become something of a sacred cow in the gaming community and this needs to change. A good kicking once in a while is healthy for any company. Sony learned from the ps3 and hopefully microsoft will learn from the xbone.

I don't want to talk about boycotts or anything, but if more people complained and made a fuss i'm sure they might at least take notice.

i dont see that happening in the near future since valve is by far one of the most pro-customers and successful video game companies around, there really isnt much else they could do better


but well, as i said i am a huge valve/steam fan, believe me when i tell you i have my reasons

Whether you like the titles on Steam or not they have a right to be there. They pay money to put their game up. At the end of the day Valve is a business (who gets roughly 30% of sales on Steam) and it's about making money. The only times games should be removed from Steam is when they are literally unplayable, meaning they don't launch or end support (there is a clause that the developer must support their games to an extent or be removed).

But shitty games can be bad for business. Especially if they clutter up the front page, and *especially* if people unwittingly buy them, through inadequate research or through false advertising, and then have to jump through hoops to attempt to get a refund.

I used to use the new releases page on Steam to look for interesting new games. I no longer do that; there's just too much garbage.

And TB addresses this in the video in the OP. The new releases page hardly means new releases anymore.

It's not Valve's job to hold your hand during a purchase. Buyer beware. Everyone should do research on a game not just blindly hit purchase because it might be interesting. Personal responsibility is going out the window these days. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean you deserve a refund.

They don't need to hold your hand but they should at least offer refunds. Hell even Origins has refunds.

ONLY for EA games tough


so unless you think Valve games are shitty (hah!) this is not the solution to our problem

The number one thing that Steam absolutely needs right now is fucking refunds. The current system of there is no official refund system but unofficially everybody gets one if they're willing to wait weeks for Valve's ludicrously slow tech support was bad back when you could at least be reasonably certain that every game that they sold on the service at least worked. Now that Valve is selling non-functioning games that are essentially scams, it's downright unacceptable. Just have a simple system where if you have less than a certain amount of time played for a game and have owned the game for less than a certain amount of time, you can get a refund, no questions asked. I mean Steam already keeps track of how much time you've played a game, although admittedly not very well. There is absolutely no reason why this basic level of consumer protection isn't in the largest digital games distributor.

Also, I take issue with the reporting Steam games thing. Yes, it is strictly better than letting those games run rampant, but the idea that Valve, a company with hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue from Steam, can't check if the games that they're selling contain fraud or child exploitation is fucking absurd. It is not the community's job to make sure that games being sold on Steam possess basic levels of functionality and aren't scams. That's you're job Valve, and you need to take responsibility for it like the big boys that you are.

Honestly, after all this shit from Steam, I'm finding myself getting more and more games from GoG. It's a way better service, and it's from a company that actually seems to give a shit about it's customers.

steam adds tons of games constantly, even more so now that greenlight has pretty much openned the gates, its understandable if steam doesnt have the time to check every single new game added or if old games in its catalogue are no longer working, letting the community deal with this is an effective way to tackle the problem


also Valve is not anti-customer, you really dont know whats anti-customer if you think they are, GoG gets a free pass simply because they have far less games to deal with and its easy to check if they work or not

 

[BrotherRool]

I suppose, it just seems like what is considered 'good' is too broad a term when applied to games. It also doesn't help the new release section. Bad/non functional games that are newly released on steam(which may be old and unsupported) take screen space from games that deserve it, they may move off once people spread the word on how crap the game is but it can still screw over decent games released at the same time.

Your suggestion definitely would help weed out bad games but I think the damage of having them take front page space has already been dealt.

The way I imagine adapting the mainpage to feedback mechanisms would have it so a game wouldn't land on the main page by default. Or if it does the space devoted to 'this game is new' would be tiny.

The first and most obvious filter would be sales, if a game can't sell a fairly small amount on launch it doesn't go straight to the front page. That may seem harsh, but we have a fairly okay games criticism industry and if you want your game to sell then you're going to have to have some marketing for it anyway. And then to land on the main page it also needs to get some positive reviews and not have many instances of where someone bought it, played it for ten minutes and then never touched it again.

And then obviously if the game is getting lots of refunds/bad reviews it's removed from the front page, if it's metacritic rating is low it doesn't get to go on the front page etc.

I don't actually think the front page of Steam is a good place to have games be noticed for the very first time. The games on there should be games where Steam has some evidence that people may like them. Possibly even adjusted account to account. You don't see never watched before films on Amazon's front page and you don't see videos with 100% dislikes on Youtube's front page. Unknown artists don't find themselves on iTunes front page

Playing a game you know nothing about and is relatively unknown is a niche activity. It doesn't belong on the front page, it belongs on a special page devoted to people who do that.


The aim isn't to make sure everyone likes every game on the front page, but it's to make sure every game on the front page meets a minimum standard of quality and then to try and find methods that give the games the best chance of being liked by the people looking at them.

 

[Eve Charm]

One simple way with one word to fix steam without having to piss off game makers that aren't crap.

Refund.

Seriously it isn't even the shovel-ware at this point, I paid FULL PRICE PREORDER on Resident evil 4 HD and a computer that can play skyrim + tons of mods no problem can't play a 15 year game without audio and sync issues and the game running at half speed?!?!

I rather not not allow games to be put on steam because there are fun small indies but I don't want to hear CAPCOM can't get a game running on pc.

 

[Little Gray]

steam adds tons of games constantly, even more so now that greenlight has pretty much openned the gates, its understandable if steam doesnt have the time to check every single new game added or if old games in its catalogue are no longer working, letting the community deal with this is an effective way to tackle the problem


also Valve is not anti-customer, you really dont know whats anti-customer if you think they are, GoG gets a free pass simply because they have far less games to deal with and its easy to check if they work or not

Except that legally valve is not allowed to sell you a game that does not work.

 

[Laughing Man]

People need to stop being so reverential to valve and Steam. It's good but it needs to face fiercer criticism than it has done in the past.

Yes, lets not sugar coat this folks, one of the key defining features of Valve that CONSTANTLY gets batted about is that the folk that work there can work on whatever they want to work on. So that begs the question why has no one decided to work on a better version of Steam, a cut down version of Steam, a decluttered Steam, a more stable Steam, a Steam that isn't over run with crap?

If EA was doing this kind of thing you could just layer the blame at the execs with some excuse like it's cash and they can't be bothered re focusing people to get it sorted but in Valves case everyone who works there has decided that they can't be bothered trying to fix it to make it better and to be honest that is a far worse crime than the likes of the same situation happening with EA or Ubisofts DD platforms.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

steam adds tons of games constantly, even more so now that greenlight has pretty much openned the gates, its understandable if steam doesnt have the time to check every single new game added or if old games in its catalogue are no longer working, letting the community deal with this is an effective way to tackle the problem


also Valve is not anti-customer, you really dont know whats anti-customer if you think they are, GoG gets a free pass simply because they have far less games to deal with and its easy to check if they work or not

Except that legally valve is not allowed to sell you a game that does not work.

one bad thing theyve done does not discredit all the other good stuff theyve done

As TotalBiscuit said, it's very important to indie developers to have their games on Steam's front page to get exposure, so real games like Luftrausers getting pushed off the "New releases" list by 8 year old shovelware like Desert Gunner is a great injustice.

Steam needs to:
1) Put the original release date of a title on the front page, rather than the date that it was released on Steam.
2) Add more filters such as "Show only brand new releases" and "Show Early Access games" so that users can have more control over what games they see there.

being able to filter out early access games is an awfully needed feature, some people like to pay less (altough it isnt always the case) for a beta and participate in the development of a game, but i certainly dont

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

errrm, in the new releases section you can filter out DLC, in fact, its filtered out by default

 

[rofltehcat]

Steam needs to stop listing DLC in the same sections as whole games. It gets really annoying when I want to see if anything decent has been released in the past few weeks and I have to sift through piles and piles of $1 DLC. Hats and rockband songs should not be listed with full games!

I agree. Their checkbox helps against this but I think the clutter issue, also criticized in the video, is a more general one. This also brings me to a realization:
I do not really browse Steam anymore. A mix of their floodgates opening and letting developers do their own sales means I am now mainly just looking at the "Top Sellers" list and not really anything beyond that or even beyond the top sellers list page 2.
Can anyone else discover a shift in the way they use/used Steam?

 

[zumbledum]

I strongly disagree with Mr biscuit on this one , i think its a very bad idea to put valve in charge of solving this one , conflict of interests and all. seems to me there's an opportunity here for enterprising 3rd parties to make websites that offer curated visions of steam's front end.

 

[Little Gray]

Except that legally valve is not allowed to sell you a game that does not work.

one bad thing theyve done does not discredit all the other good stuff theyve done

Ah yes the typical valve fanboy response.

 

[blazearmoru]

How about multiple levels of the store?
Tier 1 will have only tier 1 stuffs.
Tier 2 will have mostly Tier 2 stuffs, some Tier 1 stuff that didn't make it to T1 and some T3 stuff that bypassed T3.
Tier 3 will have everything that doesn't make it to T1 and T2 but passed greenlight.

This should help organize the store without much shitstorm?

-------------------------

In addition, games that are already out can fall out of favor and fall OR raise in Tiers with additional reviews.