Comments on Buzzfeed's real women in comic book poses

[Ten Foot Bunny]

The Wonder Woman image pisses me off. WE FLAT-CHESTED GIRLS NEED LOVE TOO!!!

 

[aba1]

XD classic buzzfeed I wouldn't expect anything less. There are tons of examples of insanely bad art from comics due to time restraints and release schedules.

D'you actually think that's why they chose the poses they did?

Of course they have to play up the feminist narrative like somehow a fictional character who isn't 100% realistic is hurting women. Can you imagine fiction not being totally realistic (gasp).

Well, of course fiction must be unrealistic, but it's more than noteworthy when it's far more frequently unrealistic in certain ways, and those ways happen to be both needless and sketchy.

I suppose I should have been clearer (my bad!) I was more alluding to that if the article was about unrealistic or even just bad poses comics had of female characters and that there is way better choices from panels that were rushed from time restraints that would have been far better examples... though we both know that's not what the articles actually about that. It is actually just a excuse for feminists to complain because they don't like people appreciating art they don't like.

I wouldn't say it is needless it is meant to appeal to their primary demographic hell for all we know the artists themselves might be just enjoying drawing it (which I suspect is the mostly likely answer since a good few images were just stylized) nothing wrong with that. I don't really see what makes it sketchy either.

 

[aba1]

Delete this post it was a duplicate.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

So what? I would also look ridiculous next to the Paco Rabanne guy.

The Paco Rabanne guy actually exists, so that's missing the point; that being to illustrate how impossible the poses are regardless of somebody's body type.

But they're cartoons - "humorous exaggerations", going by the dictionary. I might as well make side by side comparisons between real-life people and the Looney Tunes, and call it an outrage.

 

[Robert B. Marks]

Sorry, I couldn't take this thread seriously.

Seeing as I don't take this thread very seriously, and I started it, there's nothing wrong with that.

Honestly, if somebody can't take some joy from poking fun at something silly like ridiculous comic book poses, then they might want to take a step back, get some perspective and relax. Not everything is the grand arena with life-or-death consequences for the entire world, and while there's ridiculous oversexualization to be had in comic books, they're still just comic books.

And poses that evoke "SPINES DON'T WORK THAT WAY!" are pretty damn funny, all told.

 

[JimB]

But why does so much of the fantasy revolve around half-naked women contorted to show off their boobs and butts? It feels like a way to take away their power.

No, it's not. Look, you are allowed to dislike the way women are portrayed in comics. But the reason male readers like seeing sexy women isn't to "take away their power." It's because the readers like hot women. Really. That's it.

I have tried to look up porn of my favorite female characters on several occasions. I am shocked at how often that porn turns out to be those characters getting raped until they admit they wanted it.

This internet porn I describe is not the same thing as the art that gets published, so feel free to dismiss this anecdote on that basis. I won't be able to say in good conscience you have no grounds to do so. Nevertheless, my experience with the fantasies being put out on the internet and the comments surrounding those offerings has very much colored my perception of what the fandom considers a necessary part of being sexually attracted to a superhero.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Bad comic-book art is hilarious, especially when they try too hard to make women sexualized and instead it makes them look like weird snake people. I'm not sure if I would call it sexist but trying to hard yes.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Some of those look overly baggy though. I can't imagine Wonder Woman being able to fight too well when carrying around as many layers of clothing as an Assassin's Creed character. (Something that always kind of bothered me about those games in general.)

Eh, the only one I really question are Zatanna's pants legs as they look too long, like they hang past her shoes. Wonder woman's clothes only look baggy next to the standard superhero spandex, there always seems to be this misconception that clothes like that are hard to move in, they really aren't, a buddy of mine, who's a hell of a lot more athletic than me, does stylized Renaissance costumes that look like that and assassin's creed style outfits, they are surprisingly easy to move in, like I've seen him do backflips and cartwheels, if you've got the strength for it, you can do cartwheels in full plate armor too.

From what he's told me, one of the biggest inhibitors to moving around are things like long capes, that have enough cloth that the momentum can wrap them around your legs or torso while jumping around. In that way, if we are talking about "realistic" superhero costumes, we should probably follow The Incedibles advice about no capes.

Well, there's also the sense that it doesn't make them look powerful. A superhero's outfit should typically emphasize that character's prowess, which is why the spandex is the go-to, because it shows off all the muscles and such. The one in the red works well, and Zatanna actually looks fine to me, because she's going for a magician look. Super Girl, Wonder Woman, and Power Girl though look very weighed down. Power Girl especially looks like she's wearing an outfit that's 3 sizes too large. And I like large cuffed boots as much as the next guy, but on a superhero it looks too floppy.

This is probably also why whenever you see comic book or animated characters in full body armor, it fits the curves and shape of their body perfectly, be it man or woman. Because they want the audience to see what a physical specimen they are.

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

Every time I see that Spider-Woman pose used for an article, video, or whatever like this, it just makes me sigh. Not just because she's doing a pose that Spider-Man has also done on a cover, but the simple fact that Spider-Man has done tons of ridiculous poses, often highlighting his ass and crotch in comics.

I mean, yes, this is certainly an issue, but I would say that the Spider-_ are fairly equal in this regard.

 

[Bat Vader]

Funny thing is catchers do some of those as stretches in Baseball.

Spoiler

 

[Robert B. Marks]

Funny thing is catchers do some of those as stretches in Baseball.

Why do I get the feeling my bar for "SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!" just got a lot higher?

SPINES DO...um...not?...work that...way?

 

[Areloch]

Funny thing is catchers do some of those as stretches in Baseball.

Why do I get the feeling my bar for "SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!" just got a lot higher?

SPINES DO...um...not?...work that...way?

I mean, really, anyone pulling the 'Spines don't work that way' card clearly haven't seen Olympic gymnasts or contortionists. If the entire point of the various characters(especially the Spider-family characters and the like) that they're supposed to be at the threshold of human capability or even past it, then some better-than-usual flexibility is hardly mindblowing.

That said, it doesn't excuse lazy proportioning, but I'm willing to handwave that slightly because being perfectly on-model with weird, dynamic poses is bloody hard and you're bound to get too long of limbs or torso, weirdly bent necks, or the like.

At it's worst, the entire thing is an artist going "this pose looks cool/sexy, so I think I will draw them in that" and sometimes not doing that great of a job(see the aforementioned lazy proportioning). I think a lot of those poses don't look nearly as cool as the artist likely thinks they are, but I really doubt it's sexism in action so much as the artists' preference. Besides, the ever-excellent example of Spiderman constantly showing off what he's packing kinda plays to the other side of the issue a bit.

 

[the December King]

While I think the exercise is interesting, and does show how poses can be sexualized, I do not see it as disempowering in any way. Comic book art seems distinctly different from other illustration styles, favoring line work and form that imply action. I used to look to comic book art for inspiration when I was younger, but that was mainly because I had no access to living models for my fantasy art. I just get the sense that people want to pick on these comic artists, because a lot of these 'critiques' are rather hostile.

 

[Robert B. Marks]

I mean, really, anyone pulling the 'Spines don't work that way' card clearly haven't seen Olympic gymnasts or contortionists.

To be fair - because being fair IS important - with a contortionist the card would say "Spines should NOT work that way!"

 

[Robert B. Marks]

Actually, just in terms of aiming for oversexualization and hitting Lovecraftian horror instead, there was this Neptunia game played by Loading Ready Run on their stream that managed to nearly put me into a fetal position. It was a dialogue scene where two scantily clad characters were talking to the player characters. And then, the breasts of one of the scantily clad characters bounced. On their own. Without her actually moving. Under their own power.

Breasts do not work that way, and when they do in a game, it is not sexy. It is terrifying.

 

[Politrukk]

Hi all!

Not enough content here for a Garwulf's Corner, but I can't resist playing with this a bit. So, first, here's the article: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinchirico/superheroes?bftw&utm_term=.knPwnw5kX#.hkmBLB1Z0

Comments on the poses and pictures, by each pose and picture in order:

1. I think this is one case where they got this one wrong. Sure, the pose itself is ridiculous, but the main thing that came to mind was that whoever was taking the photo wasn't high enough relative to the model to match the type of overhead perspective of the original picture.

2. They really missed the point on this one. It seems pretty obvious that in the original picture Wonder Woman is in the process of falling on her hindquarters as she's being attacked, so it's not so much as a pose as an action shot of falling down. Kudos for nothing that Wonder Woman doesn't appear to have any digestive tract or internal organs in the picture, but why doesn't Buzzfeed mention Wonder Woman's freakishly long right leg?

3. They nailed it. And, I would add of the original picture, SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

4. Another good illustration of "SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!" However, I have to admit that I'm really uncomfortable when the photo model is a clearly different body type than in the illustration, and then they make a big deal about photoshopping the pictures to change the body type. If the model was somebody with the same body type as the character in the original picture, I could see the point, but this just undermines what they're trying to say.

5. Not a lot of complaints, although I wish they had mentioned how in the original picture Storm has either a freakishly long torso or no internal organs to make that perspective look like that.

6. Another case of "SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!" It's also another case of body type mismatch, but not enough attention is drawn to it to really complain.

Personally, I was disappointed - there's a lot of comic potential here, and a chance to make a few really good points in the process, but I think Buzzfeed really dropped the ball on this one. However, in the process of reading about the Buzzfeed article, I found out about this Tumblr, which does the "women drawn in impossible and ridiculous poses" REALLY well: http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/

Honestly, they picked the wrong women to do the wrong kind of poses.

asides from the camera man's obvious problem with perspective in certain shots you can hardly make an XL woman do what a supposed super athletic gymnastic person would and should do.


1
-The Spider Woman pose is incredibly easy for a women with the right body type to do, what the buzzfeed people seemed to forget here is that Spider Woman is partially elevated in this shot and perhaps her arms are drawn a bit too short, her left leg doesn't even show if it's actually touching the ledge at all.

The young woman complains about her ass not being able to take that shape... well that's cause she doesn't have that ass plain and simple.

-the photoshopped version is even worse because it completely misses the point of the original pose.


2
-it's a bit of an odd pose here but if you've ever seen a lady doing squats you know it's possible, the hands in the air might be the hardest part here.

- the photoshop makes it obvious that she's not this limber and that her body could not take the pose, aside from that her commentary of "muscles she's never used before" may be 100% on point.

3
- is pretty spot on for what she's supposed to achieve
- the photoshop was not needed, you can hardly expect someone to pose for a shot that was taken in midair.

Her own commentary supports that it could be done despite the drama she pours over it.

4

- the pose is spot on, it didn't need anything
- the photoshop is ridiculous, you can't expect a woman of that size to pose like that, then take everything away with some bad photoshop and expect it to look good.

5

- perspective is important, this pose is done all wrong.
- body type and perspective don't even match in the photoshop version.

6
- how did they even expect this to work? I have no words for it, the lady in purple can't ever match psylockes agility not looking like that.
- for one thing (which you can see from the bad photoshop) is that Psylocke is actually longer, that already made this woman a ridiculous pick without her body being taken into perspective (<ha see what I did there).
-Another is that Psylocke again is a character in mid-air, this is impossible to recreate simply like this, never even mind the full pose by itself.


Disclaimer:

I'm not trying to fat shame here, I'm simply pointing out that there is a degree of body control and posture someone with the wrong body type could never hope to muster as much as they wanted to.

Seriously bad article, bad pictures for the most part, wrong picks for the poses.

 

[Silvanus]

I suppose I should have been clearer (my bad!) I was more alluding to that if the article was about unrealistic or even just bad poses comics had of female characters and that there is way better choices from panels that were rushed from time restraints that would have been far better examples... though we both know that's not what the articles actually about that. It is actually just a excuse for feminists to complain because they don't like people appreciating art they don't like.

I wouldn't say it is needless it is meant to appeal to their primary demographic hell for all we know the artists themselves might be just enjoying drawing it (which I suspect is the mostly likely answer since a good few images were just stylized) nothing wrong with that. I don't really see what makes it sketchy either.

People tend to criticise art not just because they don't like other people enjoying it (they're not literal Grinches), but because they'd like to see the medium get better. That's why I criticise films/games/books.

But they're cartoons - "humorous exaggerations", going by the dictionary. I might as well make side by side comparisons between real-life people and the Looney Tunes, and call it an outrage.

Y'think they chose those designs for comedic purposes? That's not the reason (though it says quite a bit that one could genuinely think they were joking).

 

[Bad Player]

Honestly, they picked the wrong women to do the wrong kind of poses.

asides from the camera man's obvious problem with perspective in certain shots you can hardly make an XL woman do what a supposed super athletic gymnastic person would and should do.

Yeah, I agree with this. For a lot of them I couldn't tell how much of the photoshopping went into putting them in the spine-contorting pose, and how much of it was just to get the woman to be the proper body type.

They should redo this with some women with more similar body types.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Actually, just in terms of aiming for oversexualization and hitting Lovecraftian horror instead, there was this Neptunia game played by Loading Ready Run on their stream that managed to nearly put me into a fetal position. It was a dialogue scene where two scantily clad characters were talking to the player characters. And then, the breasts of the scantily clad character's bounced. On their own. Without her actually moving. Under their own power.

Breasts do not work that way, and when they do in a game, it is not sexy. It is terrifying.

Cthulboob F'tatagn!

OT: Buzzfeed be buzzfeed. Ridiculous poses be ridiculous. Still not as bad as Rob "BLOODPOUCHES" Liefeld.

 

[Politrukk]

Honestly, they picked the wrong women to do the wrong kind of poses.

asides from the camera man's obvious problem with perspective in certain shots you can hardly make an XL woman do what a supposed super athletic gymnastic person would and should do.

Yeah, I agree with this. For a lot of them I couldn't tell how much of the photoshopping went into putting them in the spine-contorting pose, and how much of it was just to get the woman to be the proper body type.

They should redo this with some women with more similar body types.

Body types are one thing but one must also take into consideration the limberness and athleticism that the super heroines actually bring on-board.

All these women complain about "having to do more yoga" the thing being ofcourse that if you were wanting to pose like this, if you wanted to look like say spiderwoman, a lot more than yoga would be involved.