SajuukKhar said:
Therumancer said:
Well, understand that this isn't that kind of situation. This is a case where EA/Bioware decided to sell out the ending of the game and their artistic integrity for more money. They had also clearly promised something to their customers which they chose not to deliver.
See if it wasn't for Mass Effect being planned out from the beginning (or so they said from ME1), the promises, and the revelations that the writers were still working on this new ending right at the end of the dev cycle.. an ending that exploited avenues of making money that didn't exist at the time ME1 was out there... you might have a point.
Understand EA/Bioware is under fire for selling out the ending, and lying as much as anything else. Had this been the ending they had come up with originally back with ME1 when it was planned out, you probably wouldn't be seeing quite this much backlash. Rather your seeing a bad ending that doesn't fit with the game, that annoyed people, and then turned to rage when people started to learn why it turned out that way.
People defending Bioware, or criticising the fans, need to start acknowledging the facts and what this is actually about in defending EA/Bioware. I mean it's fine if someone wants to say that it's okay for a company to lie to their fans, and do things like thuis, and they shouldn't be called on it, but at least come out and say that, rather than going off on the people making the criticisms or giving defenses based on artistic integrity and the rights of the creators when they kind of sold all of that out, also also sold the product therough lying.
Except your "them selling out their ending for more money" literally makes zero scene and is not supported by...... well anything at all. It is if anything more likely the ending was changed because of the script leaks then because of any "money scam".
Secondly one cannot realistically expect a writer to NOT change things about the ending even if they claim to have it "planned out from the beginning", and in actuality that ISN'T what Bioware said at all, they said they planned for it to be a trilogy, not that they planned out every big detail about the overall plot beforehand, there is a very large difference between the two.
Beyond that the supposed "dark energy" ending you claim they had planned out from the first game, which they didn't, was just a full of plot holes and inconsistencies as the current ending is now if you take a magnifying glass to it.
Actually it is supported. Count the availible War Assets in the game, and then take a look at the multiplayer needed to get the nessicary totals, hit "store" and notice they are selling packs for real money. Notice in their own press releases they stopped talking about it as a trilogy, and more as a franchise. Then look at the thread here on The Escapist about the $3 app and the connected intreviews and look at what's being said there.
Then look at the promises actually made by Bioware (Bioware Social had a list in one of their threads) and compare them to that interview.
It's not an unsupported point, even if it's one you don't like. It's 100% true. Now, you would be correct in saying that the evidence is circumstantial, but this isn't a criminal trial. It's apparently enough evidence for lawyers to believe they have a chance of winning against EA/Bioware for Fraud/False advertising in a civil case... and that does mean a lot. The Civil suits/FTC filing is a matter of public record as well.
Bioware's promises were also a lot more inclusive than you want to believe. The original comments about planning it out were in response to concerns that with a story like the one they were telling, they were just going toss stuff out there and then hope they could tie it up for the finale. Bioware was reassuring people that this is not the case, and that the ending and answers were all planned from the beginning. That's a problem when you have writers literally at the end of the project making the ending.
Everything here I've said is supported by facts, and most importantly statements from Bioware itself in various interviews, and it's not even obscure information since it's been discussed in other threads here just recently. What's more the transfer from trilogy to "we won't end it here, Mass Effect is going to be a franchise even if Shepard's story ends" is a matter of record since Bioware has been promoting that.
Like it or not, EA/Bioware *DID* sell out, this is all about the money for them, not about the integrity of the product or having a proper conclusion in the spirit of the trilogy. Even the ending itself basically amounts to pointing you toward a way they think they can make money off of you (cash shop fueled multiplayer).
I think a lot of this comes down to the ranting by "The Cynical Brit" and his point. He was going off about the Day #1 DLC, and saying that while it was horrible, the industry was going to push until gamers just wouldn't pay and not stop until the, and that all the QQing in the world wasn't going to help, because EA already knew they could get away with that much, and they would keep pushing until they hit a wall. The thing was that he was right about the Day #1 paid DLC, but sort of wrong in it not ending here, because the Day #1 DLC wasn't EA's only scheme with this product, and their other scheme lead to them running into that wall full tilt earlier than even he could predict. Gamers might have paid for the Day #1 DLC, but they aren't going to tolerate gimmicks to get more money out of them tied to the ending of the games they purchuse.
Assuming the fans "hold the line" I think this is going to be a kick in the pants to the industry, and a wake up call to reviewers and critics who in many cases are losing their integrity in the eyes of the people who make them what they are. There is a clear limit to how far we're going to be pushed, and we do expect quality products, and there are limits to how much we're going to be treated like mindless, walking wallets.
Let me be honest, even if your right and there was some serious artistic purview behind the ending, it doesn't really matter because they tainted it with so much other crap. It's a mess no matter how you look at it, and it's a mess that goes beyond people just not liking the ending... although that is a big part of it, it takes a special kind of suck to get this many people upset.
Also not all art is good, calling crappy art what it is, is just fine.
Speaking for myself, if Bioware doesn't fix the ending (which I would prefer) I'd be content with them refunding the full retail value of the Mass Effect mechandise out there, much like a ticket refund from a bad movie that has lead to the manager's office being stormed. Then they can keep their integrity, but do it without profiting from their "art" being crap.
In the end I think they will never admit it, but EA/Bioware knows they've lost this one and have been sunk. I suspect they will fix the ending, and while it won't make everyone happy, it won't make everyone universally hate it either. Life will go on, the industry will chill out with the profiteering for a little bit, but before too long we'll be right back where we were before. I do not think much will happen here, either in terms of loss of integrity in the industry, or them backing off from constantly pushing for every dime they can make. Inevitably there will be another clash like this, and what happens from that point onward will depend on whether gamers have been able to organize this kind of thing a bit better because the industry won't be as surprised by the backlash... and really that's our only advantage here. To win another one like this (assuming we win) will take a lot more than we're putting out now.
