Console Ports Are "Not Worth It," Says Braid Dev

[WhiteTigerShiro]

And yet the forums will still be full of people whining about it being a console port.

 

[Woodsey]

Is this guy high or what he would have a point if he was making AAA PC games but hes making a fucking Ipad game no Ipad game is gona put a strain on the xbox or PS3 and then there's the fact that porting pc games to xbox is just as simple as porting from xbox to pc as in really simple is praticaly the same code and like I said his game aint pushing no limits

In conclusion : He's high

It takes a little bit more complicated than "is the hardware powerful enough?", "yes", "dump it on that console over there then".

OT: This isn't a new thing. A number of high-profile indie developers hvae said the consoles (especially XBLA it seems) were a waste of time. Super Meatboy exceeded something like a year's worth of XBLA sales in 2 weeks on Steam.

How'd Limbo do again? What, 3 times the sales on XBLA over Steam by most estimates?

I'm also noting nearly all AAA developers are saying developing for PC's is too expensive and they want consoles to remain where they are. And yet an Indie developer can't work within constraints.

I'm thinking he got lucky once with Braid, knows it, and doesn't want to be called on it.

And you're noting it correctly, assuming you cover one ear and close one eye.

The Steam version of Limbo came out last month by the way. Think about what you've just said, in light of that.

If that Super Meat Boy thing was in any way consistent or anything other than a freak anomaly, I wouldn't have to.

It is a more extreme example, but they're not the only indie devs to say XBLA was a waste of time.

And considering you just said Limbo on PC has a third of the amount of Xbox sales, in just under 2 months, after the game's been on XBLA for 15 months, its not like that's doing bad exactly, is it?

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

He says while rubbing himself in all the cash he made off Braid on XBLA and PSN.

 

[Jimi Bove]

The XBox is by far the worst place for indie games ever, but the PS3 is more powerful and open to third party stuff. Is porting to the PS3 really that horrible? Perhaps he should try using a different engine or coding language.

 

[I forgot]

It's not that it's not worth it but that he doesn't want to put in the effort. Simple as that.

Anyone who cares about people actually getting their games would port it. It's not a money focus but "I want people actually playing my damn games" focus. This is what annoys me about Non-console indie devs. They don't care if you can't play their game as long as they get to make one. They make games for themselves not for players.

 

[octafish]

I can understand the licensing fees and associated crap involved with getting a game on the PS3 or XBOX networks making it not worth doing. Not when you can effectively self publish on PC. A lot more people own PCs than consoles so if you make a low spec game for PC you automatically have a bigger audience than both consoles combined. iOS is another massive audience to exploit.

I don't understand the hardware argument though, not if you are programming for iOS.

Anyone who cares about people actually getting their games would port it. It's not a money focus but "I want people actually playing my damn games" focus. This is what annoys me about Non-console indie devs. They don't care if you can't play their game as long as they get to make one. They make games for themselves not for players.

They either make games for people like themselves, PC players who tire of the AAA console focus. Or they make games for everyone, not just people with consoles. Or indeed they make iOS games because they want some of that Angry birds money, and wouldn't you if you could?

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

I can kind of see where he's coming from, given that it only took Microsoft five years to update the Xbox to the 360, but we've had the 360 now for seven years with no sign of a successor. So on the one hand he's right - we could do with another console generation soon. And not just because it would stop the PC elitists banging on about how outdated consoles are.

On the other hand, when placed alongside say, Skyrim, Braid is simply not that hardware intensive. So I fail to see how the Braid devs are complaining but the Bethesda devs are managing just fine.

Or in other words, I see his point, but I think he's over-exaggerating.

 

[Outright Villainy]

I've nothing against consoles, but if something like braid weren't on consoles, absolutely no one would miss out. A 5 year old laptop could play braid. Same goes for meatboy, minecraft, limbo, and pretty much any of the popular indie games.

 

[Kotaro]

Nothing against consoles, but he has a good point. The PC is by far the most indie-friendly platform. That's the amazing part about Steam, for example: they plop every new title right on the front page, so these games can get a lot more exposure than in, say, the XBLA Indie section (which is known for being annoying as hell to navigate).
There's no licensing fee for the PC, so there's less cost to publish. In addition, digital distribution is the best way for indies to get their games out (since it's much cheaper than making and shipping physical copies), and the PC is ahead of consoles on that.

I would say that he's absolutely right on this.

 

[Outright Villainy]

There are very very few games I actually like playing with a mouse and keyboard.

Then plug in a controller.
Bish bash bosh.

Then you have to consider that most people who only play on consoles dont go looking around for pc games.

I don't really see the logic here. They don't go looking for them? They're not going to sneak up under their nose by virtue of being on their console. And everybody and their dog has a desktop or laptop in the house, so it's already immediately accessible to everyone. So you're saying they should port it so they can avoid playing that game in a different part of the house?

 

[GeorgW]

The big reason not to go to consoles isn't compatibility to me, it's that XBLA and PSN don't take good care of indie games, while Steam and iOS do.

Is this guy high or what he would have a point if he was making AAA PC games but hes making a fucking Ipad game no Ipad game is gona put a strain on the xbox or PS3 and then there's the fact that porting pc games to xbox is just as simple as porting from xbox to pc as in really simple is praticaly the same code and like I said his game aint pushing no limits

In conclusion : He's high

It takes a little bit more complicated than "is the hardware powerful enough?", "yes", "dump it on that console over there then".

OT: This isn't a new thing. A number of high-profile indie developers hvae said the consoles (especially XBLA it seems) were a waste of time. Super Meatboy exceeded something like a year's worth of XBLA sales in 2 weeks on Steam.

How'd Limbo do again? What, 3 times the sales on XBLA over Steam by most estimates?

I'm also noting nearly all AAA developers are saying developing for PC's is too expensive and they want consoles to remain where they are. And yet an Indie developer can't work within constraints.

I'm thinking he got lucky once with Braid, knows it, and doesn't want to be called on it.

And you're noting it correctly, assuming you cover one ear and close one eye.

The Steam version of Limbo came out last month by the way. Think about what you've just said, in light of that.

If that Super Meat Boy thing was in any way consistent or anything other than a freak anomaly, I wouldn't have to.

It is a more extreme example, but they're not the only indie devs to say XBLA was a waste of time.

And considering you just said Limbo on PC has a third of the amount of Xbox sales, in just under 2 months, after the game's been on XBLA for 15 months, its not like that's doing bad exactly, is it?

Because as we all know, videogames work that way. Any and all sales are always spread out over a long period and don't happen with a high initial sales followed by them falling off over a period of time. Which is why to this day Grand Theft Auto San Andreas continues to sell just as well as it did the day it launched.

The majority of Limbos sales on XBLA occured during its first two months

Which is why all the people that were interested in Limbo bought it a year ago. If a third of those people apparently don't have a 360 or got one the 15 months it was out there, then that's still a pretty big number in my book.

 

[I forgot]

I can understand the licensing fees and associated crap involved with getting a game on the PS3 or XBOX networks making it not worth doing. Not when you can effectively self publish on PC. A lot more people own PCs than consoles so if you make a low spec game for PC you automatically have a bigger audience than both consoles combined. iOS is another massive audience to exploit.

I don't understand the hardware argument though, not if you are programming for iOS.

Anyone who cares about people actually getting their games would port it. It's not a money focus but "I want people actually playing my damn games" focus. This is what annoys me about Non-console indie devs. They don't care if you can't play their game as long as they get to make one. They make games for themselves not for players.

They either make games for people like themselves, PC players who tire of the AAA console focus. Or they make games for everyone, not just people with consoles. Or indeed they make iOS games because they want some of that Angry birds money, and wouldn't you if you could?

I wouldn't want Angry Birds money when I could make Gran Turismo money. While more people own PCs than consoles, more people buy games on consoles, not PCs. Making games for everyone doesn't mean making it for people who don't own consoles but for people who wouldn't play games like Uncharted or Red Dead Redemption.

 

[samsonguy920]

As much as I see consoles falling behind PC's as far as gaming power year after year, I can agree that trying to rewind compatibility can be a pain. However, considering this guy's reputation for being an over-pretentious windbag, I have to think it is more a matter that he just sees anything console as beneath him and he will come up with any excuse to not port a game to console.
Which will be stupid, considering that consoles still carry strong market presence and bring a lot of games to the spotlight that might otherwise be missed.

 

[Radelaide]

He's got a point. PCs advance are a breakneck speed compared to Console cycles, but that is just because of how the systems work. Consoles are designed with longevity in mind, a system you will be playing on for years, while a PC is a constantly updating platform that allows devs to take advantage of the latest advancements without needing to make compromises for lower tier system specs.

Then one would assume that having a stable platform to work with, as opposed to one that is pretty much changing with the moon cycles would be easier port across. Yes the Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii all have different spec, one Xbox system is going to be pretty much exact to the next. It's not going to be a case of hoping your PC will meet minimum requirements because you happen to be a year out of the loop.

 

[veloper]

The xbox360 specs are overkill for simple indie games like Braid, so that cannot be the reason.

If you have to name a downside of XBLA, it's M$ taking a big cut and dictating what updates and DLC you're allowed to bring out for your game and at what price, so no free extras for your loyal fans.