Yes, thank you! I was going to point this out, you even see the cig in his mouth for a moment before he puts it out. Which really puzzles me considering they said they weren't going to show him smoking. It seems they might simply mean "we won't literally show him inhaling the cig and drawing in smoke and exhaling on camera". Which is apparently not the same thing as "He doesn't smoke".Makabriel said:If you watch carefully he actually lets out a couple of puffs of smoke as he's watching the funeral go by..
My one big gripe with the episode is they used the typical trope of the Hollywood Atheist. This trope annoys me so much on a personal level that it really took away some of the enjoyment for the episode for me.Attison Graves said:I for one find it perfectly entertaining, I enjoyed the pilot and I quite enjoyed this as well. It's not an Earth-shattering show by any stretch of the imagination, but it's the first season. It takes most shows a bit of time to really hit their stride, and these reviews have been consistently unwilling to afford Constantine any of that requisite time. I, on the other hand, am more than happy to wait it out and see how things pick up. People are so damn fickle these days that when anything is short of absolutely amazing, they don't know how to approach it with anything less than scorn.
It's better than about 3/4 of the crap on television right now, compelling enough to actually convince me to watch TV again. That's coming from someone who just canceled cable in favor of Netflix.
Happyninja42 said:My one big gripe with the episode is they used the typical trope of the Hollywood Atheist. This trope annoys me so much on a personal level that it really took away some of the enjoyment for the episode for me.
I agree with your points about being in a world with literal divine/demonic figures changes things, my gripe though is from a personal and political/cultural standpoint. It's always the Hollywood Atheist. That is the only atheist you ever see in tv/movies. And it's simply wrong. Sure you might have characters like Cosntantine, who believe, but they don't give a shit for one reason or another. But whenever it's a "there is no god" character, it's always the priest guy. He lost someone he loved, so now he drinks, and he's miserable about everything, and nothing matters anymore, and blah blah blah. And then, he puts his collar back on, puts down the bottle, and finds purpose again, thanks to Buddy Jesus and Papa God! And I'm frankly sick of it.Attison Graves said:Happyninja42 said:My one big gripe with the episode is they used the typical trope of the Hollywood Atheist. This trope annoys me so much on a personal level that it really took away some of the enjoyment for the episode for me.
I feel that personally, given the scenario in which there are literal spirits, demons, and magics present, the ease with which faith can be shaken and restored is forgivable. I think, especially in stories which deal with literal existences of holy/unholy forces, a little leeway has to be afforded, lest the whole thing become unbelievable.
In a world where the allegedly divine exists, how much is it reasonable to require before one's faith is restored? How unreasonable is it to presume that the divine is broadly accepted? Especially, in this case, because the primary character in question is (I'm assuming) the priest. In the case of Constantine himself, he's never particularly impressed (or has his faith truly restored) despite encounters with the literal agents of "heaven". I feel as if the priest serves to contrast that cynicism. He's a mirror reflecting the main character's darkness, his 'redemption' implying that there's hope even for those who don't believe it.
Or, it could just be that it's an easy bit of character to design and it serves to create a little 'doubt' as to who the real 'villain' of the episode is.
Personally, when it comes to religion in the end-times, my Fallout 3 character still comes to mind. Oscar "The Reverend" Bishop believes in spreading the word of his god with a sawed-off shotgun in one hand and a copy of the good book in the other. Of course, he doesn't believe a word of it anymore, but it did once stop a bullet from piercing his heart so he figures spreading a little hope is better than telling everyone they're going to end up food for mutants.
Happyninja42 said:I agree with your points about being in a world with literal divine/demonic figures changes things, my gripe though is from a personal and political/cultural standpoint. It's always the Hollywood Atheist. That is the only atheist you ever see in tv/movies. And it's simply wrong. Sure you might have characters like Cosntantine, who believe, but they don't give a shit for one reason or another. But whenever it's a "there is no god" character, it's always the priest guy. He lost someone he loved, so now he drinks, and he's miserable about everything, and nothing matters anymore, and blah blah blah. And then, he puts his collar back on, puts down the bottle, and finds purpose again, thanks to Buddy Jesus and Papa God! And I'm frankly sick of it.
Yes, it might be unreasonable of me to expect a tv show to have an accurate portrayal of what we atheist's are actually like, and why, but fuck I'm tired of the same stereotype over and over. Because it colors the mindset of those who watch it, where it's what they honestly think causes people to be an atheist. That the only reason is "they must've had some tragedy in their past, and now they're just angry at Gawhd" I've seriously heard this said to me on multiple occasions, and even heard morning radio hosts say as much in their echo chambers.
It's the most inaccurate portrayal of atheism, but also the most prevalent.
So yeah, it annoys me, a lot. And yes, I know it's just a show, but fuck I'm tired of that trope, and I want it to stop. Thus, it annoyed me in the episode.
From what I heard, the actress they had in the pilot was unavailable/unwilling to return. Also I heard that the test audiences didn't really like their chemistry maybe? *shrugs*Rawbeard said:I wonder why they replaced clairvoyant chick with different clairvoyant chick.
Oh I know, I liked the episode overall, I was just pointing out one of the aspects of it I didn't like and why. I hope the show does well, and continues to improve and gain fans, but if they play that atheist card, I'm going to froth at the mouth a bit about it. xD And this is a thread to discuss the episode, so I've contained my rage to an appropriate setting.Attison Graves said:Happyninja42 said:snip
I get your point. I'm not saying it's wrong or anything. It's just so much written by rote at this point that I can't find it in me to begrudge yet another depiction of it. Wrong or not, it's familiar enough that audiences will understand it and in the end it's going to be whether audiences can understand and comprehend the messages of the show which keeps it afloat or not. It's a double-edged sword, though, as obviously it will alienate folks like you who react with strong negativity to such glaring inaccuracy. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
Except, of course, when you have really awesome writers who can subvert and twist all kinds of interesting narrative devices into a story without making it too deep and complicated for the audience to understand. But that kind of writing is rare, and losing decent shows because decent writers attempted to reach too far beyond their limited competence and ended up making things so dense that the viewers bounced off sucks much more than a show wallowing in mediocrity here and there to me.
Yes, it is trying, but it's stumbling a bit along the way. I like the show, and I plan to keep watching it, but it's got some flaws, flaws that I hope will be ironed out eventually. The risk though, is that the show might not live long enough to find it's feet. So far the show hasn't really shown me anything super impressive or exciting. I didn't have any "Holy shit that was cool!" reactions like I have with other shows. And that's important for a show to pull off when it's first starting. Some shows can get by without those moments, if other aspects of the show are done well and enjoyable. But if every aspect of the show is just "ok", or "average", then it doesn't really make a name for itself.FiatCelebrity said:I really don't think this reviewer is giving this show a fair shake. Especially when I see the more optimistic attitude the Escapist is giving to shows like Gotham and Arrow, which to me come off as absolute garbage, but have more familiar subject-matter. Though there are a few problems with this Constantine show, what is clear to me is that the directing, acting, writing (at least the dialogue bits), and overall production is very good, even for the pilot and 2nd episode. The other two shows I mentioned are way too over-the-top with dreadful writing, cringe-worthy directing and performances, and strikes me as phoned-in. At least this Constantine show seems to be trying.