Contextual Button Imputs

[Roboshi]

A Simple one for you; How do you feel about them?

I say this because I've seen an increased number of people get angry or even mark a game down for using the same button for multiple actions. I feel this is something that will often cause rifts between the console and PC market where a PC gamer will have a lot more buttons to work with and will have no problem having separate buttons for talking to an NPC and opening that computer interface, while the console gamer only has about half a dozen buttons and a few directions and therefore would need this sort of thing.

Personally I'm in favour of this sort of practise when it is used in the correct manner, ie NOT giving the talk and attack command to the same button so you kill half your NPCs.

 

[DoPo]

If you're releasing the game on PC, there is no real reason NOT to be able to remap the controls. Run, take cover, un-take cover and vault over cover from Mass Effect is quite infuriating one - why the hell would I want to do all of these with the same button? How about if I want to move from cover to cover, I don't have a chance of accidentally leaping in front of enemy fire? Heck, why would I want a button to stick to cover, anyway - if contextual actions were actually to be used correctly, wouldn't it make more sense my action of MOVING TOWARDS THE COVER WHEN I'M ALREADY NEXT TO IT AND IN COMBAT be easier way for me to express my intention that I want to take cover there? Heck, some games have the character flatten to the wall automatically when you're next to it - and that makes a lot more sense, too - I'm already under fire, why would I not want to reduce my profile?

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

I kind of want to file this under PC players are strange. I don't have a problem with one button being used for more then one thing. I mean it makes sense even on PC. (I find that well PC has more buttons, you ten to have fewer buttons you can use quickly.) You don't need different buttons for talking vs computer use because the context comes from where your looking most of the time. I think the problem is that it reminds the PC players that they weren't first and that bugs them. understandably so.

If you're releasing the game on PC, there is no real reason NOT to be able to remap the controls. Run, take cover, un-take cover and vault over cover from Mass Effect is quite infuriating one - why the hell would I want to do all of these with the same button? How about if I want to move from cover to cover, I don't have a chance of accidentally leaping in front of enemy fire? Heck, why would I want a button to stick to cover, anyway - if contextual actions were actually to be used correctly, wouldn't it make more sense my action of MOVING TOWARDS THE COVER WHEN I'M ALREADY NEXT TO IT AND IN COMBAT be easier way for me to express my intention that I want to take cover there? Heck, some games have the character flatten to the wall automatically when you're next to it - and that makes a lot more sense, too - I'm already under fire, why would I not want to reduce my profile?

I can agree that reminding keys is something that every game should have. (Heck it should be on every console game too.) ME 1 had cover that you would stick to by moving to it, but it was oh so fiddly how it worked, moving it to a button really did work a lot better.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

But seriously, I never had a problem with it. I'm not one to hammer controls like an ape, so I know what the button does in the current context. Because they're sensitive to context.

 

[SoreWristed]

I'm not against contextual button inputs, but the window in which they can be used needs to be very accurately defined. If it's too small (ie having to stand on the exact pixel the dev had in mind, early sierra games had shit tons of these), it becomes a bother and leaves for a lot of frustration. If it's too large, it becomes obsolete since it just replaces an auto-activate when reaching a certain point, or it becomes evenly frustrating if I wanted to touch the thing four feet away from the thing I did not want to touch.

I was much in favour of the button layout of the original Assassin's creed. At this point I'm not sure if the later games still followed this system because it's been so long since I've played them, besides AC3 but I've been succesfully repressing memories of that game for some time now.

The button layout could be explained once and you'd get it forever, it was that intuitive. It basically put the square, x, circle and triangle buttons on top of the protagonist. Cirle for left hand, square for right hand, X for the legs and triangle for the head. I thought this layout made a LOT of sense, since it would make contextual button presses easily distinguishable. I want to talk to [character], push triangle. I want to attack [character], I push circle or square.

 

[Rip Van Rabbit]

I don't have a problem with it.

Heck, when done right, it can make the simple act of using cover to look fluid and feel responsive.

Special mention goes to Splinter Cell Blacklist for making cover-based combat & stealth feel engaging through its movement alone.

 

[aozgolo]

I'm in favor of simplifying the control INPUT, but not dumbing down the control. I remember watching a video series on the evolution of the RPG and how the developers of Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior) while inspired by Wizardry and Ultima went for a far more streamlined and simple input approach, and it definitely worked, you only had 2 main buttons on the NES, and they did everything you needed to.

I think I only began having an issue with contextual buttons in the last generation (Seventh: PS3/360/Wii) when I started seeing jump buttons go away in favor of "you can jump if you are in the appropriate spot and press the appropriate button, but only if we decide that jumping there is conducive to our level design". No longer is every cliff a danger, and every flat surface a potential platform, this simplifies the level design for the developers at the expense of freedom for the players, and I'm not really a fan of it. I'd much rather be allowed to go where I want to go and not have an arbitrary "press x now" prompt telling me when I can or can't do what ought to be a basic action.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Ah, someone beat me to the Conker reference.

Contextual inputs are good if done right. The Legend of Zelda's "A" button for everything usually works well. Rarely, have I had the "pick up item" and some other command flash back and forth because of how close an item dropped on the ground was to an object that can be interacted with.

Gears of War's "A" for roadie run, cover, and hopping over walls was iffy. It would have been a much better design if they split the command between the near useless "Y" (which aimed the camera the current point of interest). I've had several online and campaign encounters where my meathead space marine was turned into salsa by something because the context command did the wrong thing.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I HATE context sensitive controls and I'm a console gamer. Stuff like roll and cover being the same button in Uncharted is infuriating. In Bioshock Infinite, it was almost impossible to reload during gunfights. I don't mind the occasional context sensitive control when 2 things rarely would come up at the same time. You can also prioritize certain actions over others as well. The worst part is so many developers waste buttons on things you don't need to waste buttons on. For example, a shooter having a weapon cycle system where you'll melee without a gun equipped and throw a grenade by cycling to it (then throwing with the same buttons you use to fire a gun) saves a button on the controller since you don't need a grenade and melee button anymore. You don't need a sprint button either because it can be mapped to the analog stick.

If you're releasing the game on PC, there is no real reason NOT to be able to remap the controls...

if contextual actions were actually to be used correctly, wouldn't it make more sense my action of MOVING TOWARDS THE COVER WHEN I'M ALREADY NEXT TO IT AND IN COMBAT be easier way for me to express my intention that I want to take cover there? Heck, some games have the character flatten to the wall automatically when you're next to it - and that makes a lot more sense, too - I'm already under fire, why would I not want to reduce my profile?

As nomotog already said, there's no reason that console games can't the option to fully remap the controls either. Borderlands 2 and Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit allowed for all controls to be remapped, and I took complete advantage of that in both games, especially Need for Speed. It really takes like 5 minutes on the part of the programmer to do, creating the menu interface takes longer than the actually programming (and that interface is already there if it's a PC game as well).

Cover should NEVER be contextual. It is usually far better to just stand behind cover instead of sticking to it. When you stick to it, you lose the freedom of movement you have when you are standing behind cover. Plus, when you stand behind a wall and shoot regularly, you expose less of your body than if you used the cover system. Watch any match of pro players in a clan match in a cover shooter, you'll see they almost never stick to cover because it's so disadvantageous to do so. Contextual cover systems are totally infuriating.

 

[Flames66]

I think I only began having an issue with contextual buttons in the last generation (Seventh: PS3/360/Wii) when I started seeing jump buttons go away in favor of "you can jump if you are in the appropriate spot and press the appropriate button, but only if we decide that jumping there is conducive to our level design".

I usually stop playing if I discover there is no jump button. I will decide what I can and cannot jump over. I also don't like cover systems for the same reason. I will decide where I want to hide, not the animator.

I do not like contextual controls. I don't like them in games and I don't like them in other software. I use the basic HTML view for Gmail because I can't stand the buttons moving around.

I like having a standard "use" button for activating in game stuff, but it must ALWAYS activate the thing I am directly pointing at, not the thing I am closest to. I hate trying to push the button to get a lift going and accidentally picking up the bloody assault rifle I didn't want because I was standing closer to it.

 

[Areloch]

Cover should NEVER be contextual. It is usually far better to just stand behind cover instead of sticking to it. When you stick to it, you lose the freedom of movement you have when you are standing behind cover. Plus, when you stand behind a wall and shoot regularly, you expose less of your body than if you used the cover system. Watch any match of pro players in a clan match in a cover shooter, you'll see they almost never stick to cover because it's so disadvantageous to do so. Contextual cover systems are totally infuriating.

Ground Zeroes' cover system is actually VERY well done. If you walk up to something and collide with it, Snake automatically slides into cover. A very simple pose transition instead of some over-acted 'enter cover' animation. Moving away from cover smoothly detaches him from it. No 'enter/exit' cover buttons needed. If you move left/right respective the wall from your view, he'll track along it to stay in cover(but again, you're never locked to it and can break away at any time). If you're at the edge of a wall or a low cover, you can easily just hold aim and he'll pop around the corner so you can shoot.

Very clean, very intuitive. It doesn't really change any of the functionality of your buttons(aim still aims, move still moves) but it adjusts them to the fact that you're behind cover.

If context actions are implemented WELL, no one complains. There's nothing wrong with contextual actions as a concept, only if they're poorly implemented. Speaking of...

Special mention goes to Splinter Cell Blacklist for making cover-based combat & stealth feel engaging through its movement alone.

I'm curious, did you play on the console or pc? I played it on the PC, and the cover commands were atrocious. They were a massive step down from Future Soldier(even though they largely did the same thing, they didn't feel as reliable) and having your 'enter cover button' ALSO context to 'vault over cover if you're moving gave me many a moment of trying to enter cover and jumping clean over it into some guy's face.

I don't know if it was a PC controls issue or just in general, but that one in particular made me quite annoyed with it.

As for keybinds: there is no reason, ever, that you shouldn't be allowed to remap keys. To take it a step further, I want every game to have a keybind system like Arma3, where you can keybind any action to a button tap, holding a button and/or double-tapping.

This would let you personally build contexted actions to your liking(or spread the controls out to every key on the keyboard if that's your way).

 

[Vicarious Reality]

I remember the sprint button in that war game, what was it? Yeah, Spec Ops the line, The sprint button is also the button that glues you to walls while you try to run through small ramshackle buildings

And you pick up things with R.

Needless to say i have not played that much

 

[Rip Van Rabbit]

Special mention goes to Splinter Cell Blacklist for making cover-based combat & stealth feel engaging through its movement alone.

I'm curious, did you play on the console or pc? I played it on the PC, and the cover commands were atrocious. They were a massive step down from Future Soldier(even though they largely did the same thing, they didn't feel as reliable) and having your 'enter cover button' ALSO context to 'vault over cover if you're moving gave me many a moment of trying to enter cover and jumping clean over it into some guy's face.

I don't know if it was a PC controls issue or just in general, but that one in particular made me quite annoyed with it.

I was playing on PC. (Keyboard & Mouse, I don't own a controller.)
Maybe it was just luck or familiarity with Future Soldier's control scheme, but I can't say that I experienced those issues. Although I can acknowledge that there is great potential for unintended actions on one's first playthrough.

 

[Areloch]

Special mention goes to Splinter Cell Blacklist for making cover-based combat & stealth feel engaging through its movement alone.

I'm curious, did you play on the console or pc? I played it on the PC, and the cover commands were atrocious. They were a massive step down from Future Soldier(even though they largely did the same thing, they didn't feel as reliable) and having your 'enter cover button' ALSO context to 'vault over cover if you're moving gave me many a moment of trying to enter cover and jumping clean over it into some guy's face.

I don't know if it was a PC controls issue or just in general, but that one in particular made me quite annoyed with it.

I was playing on PC. (Keyboard & Mouse, I don't own a controller.)
Maybe it was just luck or familiarity with Future Soldier's control scheme, but I can't say that I experienced those issues. Although I can acknowledge that there is great potential for unintended actions on one's first playthrough.

That may have been it, then. I know I was forcing myself to be more careful about it towards the end, but I gotta say, the cover/movement mechanics just felt generally inferior to Future Soldier's. It had a lot of the same things(quick movement from cover to cover, etc), but in Blacklist you had much more restricted points you could swap to, mostly just the corners. In FS, you could quickmove to almost any point along a cover-friendly object.

FS's movement just felt more intentional. Button to enter/exit cover will let you enter and exit cover. Holding shift makes you sprint, and if you're in cover looking at another piece of cover, you sprint to the next one. The buttons never changed what they did, they just applied themselves based on the context (And I think this is important to making good contextual controls).

In Blacklist, the very function of the buttons changed. Q is your enter/exit cover button, but it can also make you fast-jump over a peice of cover if you're moving when you hit it. It ALSO is your 'drop down from hanging' button. Space is your move-between-cover button but it ALSO interacts with stuff, and so on. Lot more opportunities to have a flub of controls.

It mostly worked for Blacklist, but I can't help but feel the controls were inferior to Future Soldier because of this.

 

[Smooth Operator]

IF, and only IF your contextual controls have absolutely no confusion of their function, no lag and it is always clear when they will work then that shit is fine to use, not just fine they can make life so much easier.
Prime example is GTA, no matter what mode of transportation you are using the same controls apply without second guessing anything.

However in 95% of games that does not apply, most often the game is too slow on the uptake and you actually need to pause to make sure it will do the right move, or there is no distinction when move A will be made over move B, or the game will only decide the move once you rub your face against a contextual wall that is exactly the same as all non contextual walls, or the game has trouble detecting when you are looking at a contextual item.
If any of these apply to your game then take your controls designer out back and break his fucking legs, if he found it acceptable to keep using them like that then there is just no other way he will learn to not do that shit.

 

[Rip Van Rabbit]

~ Snip Snip ~

That may have been it, then. I know I was forcing myself to be more careful about it towards the end, but I gotta say, the cover/movement mechanics just felt generally inferior to Future Soldier's. It had a lot of the same things(quick movement from cover to cover, etc), but in Blacklist you had much more restricted points you could swap to, mostly just the corners. In FS, you could quickmove to almost any point along a cover-friendly object.

FS's movement just felt more intentional. Button to enter/exit cover will let you enter and exit cover. Holding shift makes you sprint, and if you're in cover looking at another piece of cover, you sprint to the next one. The buttons never changed what they did, they just applied themselves based on the context (And I think this is important to making good contextual controls).

In Blacklist, the very function of the buttons changed. Q is your enter/exit cover button, but it can also make you fast-jump over a peice of cover if you're moving when you hit it. It ALSO is your 'drop down from hanging' button. Space is your move-between-cover button but it ALSO interacts with stuff, and so on. Lot more opportunities to have a flub of controls.

It mostly worked for Blacklist, but I can't help but feel the controls were inferior to Future Soldier because of this.

Ahhh, I completely see what you mean and I very much agree.

Future Soldier was a joy to play and it inadvertently prepared me for Blacklist's style of gameplay. Me, absolutely adoring Splinter Cell over the years, that turned out to be my go-to example. In retrospect, I want to throw an honorable mention to Ghost Recon: Future Soldier then.

Just an aside: I like your taste.

 

[Areloch]

Ahhh, I completely see what you mean and I very much agree.

Future Soldier was a joy to play and it inadvertently prepared me for Blacklist's style of gameplay. Me, absolutely adoring Splinter Cell over the years, that turned out to be my go-to example. In retrospect, I want to throw an honorable mention to Ghost Recon: Future Soldier then.

Just an aside: I like your taste.

And I like yours! Internet high-five!

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

There are so many games that do things like 'Run' being the same button as 'Take Cover'.

Then the designers make a corner turn flush with enemies.

Now, my initial response was to run away screaming, as you wont to do.

My character's usual response is to press against a wall for a nap while s/he's shot to pieces.

Or what about the famous "Give Death Move" Button happens to be the same as "Pick up item". I think they purposefully code their ai to slump their not quite dead yet bodies over items so they become immortal, preventing me from actually ending the fight.

Stuff like that needs to leave.

 

[Bad Jim]

I remember the sprint button in that war game, what was it? Yeah, Spec Ops the line, The sprint button is also the button that glues you to walls while you try to run through small ramshackle buildings

And you pick up things with R.

Needless to say i have not played that much

That picture sums it up for me. I don't mind a little context sensitive input, but some games take it too far and you end up not having the option to do what you want.

I think they should perhaps have more than one context sensitive button, so you would have (A) Drink Nasty Water (B) Take Ammo. Or maybe if you hold down the context sensitive button it should bring up a wheel, so you can select what you want from there, with a cancel option if your only option is Drink Nasty Water.