Controller Evolution

[ReiverCorrupter]

As I said in the last thread on this topic, I think think games offer two major types of experiences: games in the proper sense of the term, and virtual reality.

Wii sports are more like VR; you're actually playing tennis etc. except you do it in the comfort of your own home with your friends. That's where a lot of motion controls are going towards, but not all of them.

Here's how I see it:

VR allows people to do things bodily; there is no avatar, just the player. It's about taking part, doing it yourself. In this sense the player is taking part in a virtual reality themselves.

Games involve the player being suspended from the action, it's more like watching a movie. I don't think I'm going to far to say that most people don't want to take part in a slasher film, but they're more than happy to watch it. I think the same thing goes for shooters. Just because I like playing CoD, it doesn't mean that I want to play paintball in my own house.

There are even genres where the gamer doesn't have an avatar, like RTS games. Saying an RTS gamer wants virtual reality is like saying a chess player wants to joust. The RTS player is immersed in the competition of the gameplay, they don't want to suspend disbelief and jump into another reality.

Thus I think the game community will be split, with VR simulators like the Wii becoming very popular, but with traditional consoles clinging on for those who enjoy classical gaming. There's nothing wrong with either. I just think companies should realize that they are two markets so that they don't try to serve both in one system and therefore sacrifice the quality of both in the process. They should realize that people who are attracted to VR aren't necessarily going to like more traditional games.

 

[Varya]

YAY! Extra Consideration is a feature! Now I can go to sleep happy.
Great discussion, looking forward to future glories.

 

[Dastardly]

Extra Consideration: Controller Evolution

This week, MovieBob, Yahtzee, and James Portnow discuss the evolution of the controller and the difficulty in bringing non-gamers up to speed.

Read Full Article

Diggin' the column. It's a long read, but none of it wasted.

And it's a perfectly valid discussion, from more than just a control perspective. This is a generation of games made by gamers, for gamers. Everyone involved has been intimately involved in gaming since adolescence. There's a certain body of requisite knowledge that is just plain assumed.

(Even if there is a tutorial, it's usually just an on-screen notice that says, "Push W to move forward." Okay... but why? And what about something that provides a little more practice? A couple flash cards do not a tutorial make.)

Some of the current innovations really could go a long way to making things more accessible... but only if our innovations get over this tendency of being so scattershot. Most of them are about novelty, which serves to draw our attention to the controller. That's not improving accessibility. That's really only workable through ergonomics--drawing attention away from the controller.

I'm not convinced motion controls are the secret to that, really. They're not as intuitive and natural feeling as we're led to believe. Without adequate force feedback, they don't convey any sense of distance or effort or mass to any of the actions.

Like 3D movies/television, they're trying to deepen the experience by more fully engaging the senses. More accurately, by more fully engaging one sense. Even more accurately, by more fully engaging one portion of one sense. But rather than more fully engaging that sense, this tends to isolate that sense from the others and pull you out of the experience.

For the future of motion controls, we're only focusing on one side of the coin: movement. But the ease and fluidity of our movements are entirely based on the tactile information they provide. The way I move through water is different from the way I move through air--not because of something I know, but because of something I feel. That move-feel-adjust-move feedback circuit is broken if there's no response from the environment. Like a deaf person's speech, our movements are less clear and fluent because we lack the other side of the exchange.

Voice controls? Those aren't much better. Until voice recognition improves and true natural speech recognition becomes a reality (in which your machine can recognize the same command phrased in different ways), voice commands are really just a set of "verbal buttons." They provide a convenience that is necessarily when you need to keep your hands free or be moving about the room... but video games don't quite require that freedom just yet.

EDIT: What does this have to do with the topic? Well, I'll tell you...

If we move toward innovations that engage both aspects of our senses, we can get into control schemes that really are more natural and intuitive. Currently motion controllers are just experiments going in that direction, but tactile feedback is needed to complete the circuit.

Arbitrary button arrangements aren't going to be the ticket for much longer, methinks. In the end, most of them are based on convention and habit anyway, like QWERTY (which had its purpose, way back when), but the console world is becoming more and more "fractured" (as Moviebob put it), so they don't benefit from the ubiquitous nature of QWERTY's now-arbitrary arrangement.

 

[AmzRigh]

I want to share two opinions on the things they discussed.

1. Motion controls. I think they, or at least the wii, was an absolutely worthwhile experiment. It might have ended up being the best thing that happened to gaming. It wasn't. Far from it. Motion controls, frankly, suck and BADLY. We need to drop them. They're a waste of time as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think you can justly dismiss an entire classification of control when the technology is still in its infancy, especially when said technology, while imperfect, is an overwhelming financial success. What exists of motion controls are, by no means, the pinnacle of what motion controls are capable of; to abandon a technology before it's fully developed is to waste was was learned from it.

2. Cloud Gaming. I'm not huge on this either. I've used digital distribution services like steam and frankly I much prefer having a physical copy of my games. It's not just me liking "having" things either. Valve goes out of business, steam's servers go down, and I lose access to my games that I paid for. The same could be said for Onlive or any other similar service. I don't like that idea. I understand many game's online multiplayer will go down in the future but to lose access to the game entirely for similar reasons is a scary thought. I don't like that. I'd much rather just get a disk.

A physical copy is at least as, if not more, vulnerable than a cloud copy. Physical copies (be they disc, cartridge, card, etc.) can be lost, damaged, or otherwise rendered unplayable; it's still lost access to a game that you paid for. Granted, it is still, in most cases, something that the player has some degree of control over. You might say that's a fair risk.

However, physical publication comes with its own costs: manufacture and shipping. This cost accounts for a significant portion of the price passed on to the consumers. To cling to an old idea with significant problems, rather than seek a new solution, is, again, quite shortsighted.

For example: an independent validation source. Perhaps some sort of platform-specific (or even platform independent, if we could swing that degree of cooperation) "key" -- a physical or digital item that would store verification of ownership for all an individual's digital acquisitions, not in the possession of the publisher or platform, but in the possession of the end user or a third party (perhaps a dedicated validation firm). Of course, redundancy is the best insurance against losing data, so the software distribution platform should keep record of this, as well; both are insurance against a loss of the other.

 

[Formica Archonis]

<IMG SRC="http://s91291220.onlinehome.us/formica/allisonsmash.gif" align=right>

I watched two people fall in love over a game of Dance Central.

WHAT?

I'm hoping it wasn't the artist and the talking guy; that might get awkward come the following Extra Credits...

Well, it's so obvious. She depicts herself as so kind and approachable.

 

[snowman6251]

Spoiler: Giant Quote I'm too lazy to cut down

I want to share two opinions on the things they discussed.

1. Motion controls. I think they, or at least the wii, was an absolutely worthwhile experiment. It might have ended up being the best thing that happened to gaming. It wasn't. Far from it. Motion controls, frankly, suck and BADLY. We need to drop them. They're a waste of time as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think you can justly dismiss an entire classification of control when the technology is still in its infancy, especially when said technology, while imperfect, is an overwhelming financial success. What exists of motion controls are, by no means, the pinnacle of what motion controls are capable of; to abandon a technology before it's fully developed is to waste was was learned from it.

2. Cloud Gaming. I'm not huge on this either. I've used digital distribution services like steam and frankly I much prefer having a physical copy of my games. It's not just me liking "having" things either. Valve goes out of business, steam's servers go down, and I lose access to my games that I paid for. The same could be said for Onlive or any other similar service. I don't like that idea. I understand many game's online multiplayer will go down in the future but to lose access to the game entirely for similar reasons is a scary thought. I don't like that. I'd much rather just get a disk.

A physical copy is at least as, if not more, vulnerable than a cloud copy. Physical copies (be they disc, cartridge, card, etc.) can be lost, damaged, or otherwise rendered unplayable; it's still lost access to a game that you paid for. Granted, it is still, in most cases, something that the player has some degree of control over. You might say that's a fair risk.

However, physical publication comes with its own costs: manufacture and shipping. This cost accounts for a significant portion of the price passed on to the consumers. To cling to an old idea with significant problems, rather than seek a new solution, is, again, quite shortsighted.

For example: an independent validation source. Perhaps some sort of platform-specific (or even platform independent, if we could swing that degree of cooperation) "key" -- a physical or digital item that would store verification of ownership for all an individual's digital acquisitions, not in the possession of the publisher or platform, but in the possession of the end user or a third party (perhaps a dedicated validation firm). Of course, redundancy is the best insurance against losing data, so the software distribution platform should keep record of this, as well; both are insurance against a loss of the other.

With regards to your second comment, the problem however is that while that could work for a steam like service, that wouldn't work for Onlive, or other cloud gaming services. With a steam like service you could buy and download the game, install it, and permanently have it in theory. With cloud gaming however you never actually download the game. You stream it off the host's servers. Therefore if those servers were to go down you'd lose all your games and never have a way to access them again.

Physical copies do come with a risk of breaking but I personally take VERY good care of both my software and hardware, because they are expensive and I don't want to screw them up. Anything short of a fire or natural disaster will do no harm to my games as I keep them in pristine condition. That might not be true of everyone but at least in those cases it's their fault, not the company they bought the game from going under.

 

[Ferisar]

Wait. Wait wait.

Silent Hill 2 and Wii Tennis aren't on the same level of immersion because of controls?

Yeah, no.
Not buying that. That's a really -really- baseless comment.

 

[The Long Road]

This new feature is really a sight to behold. It's like gaming's Brain Trust is pitching little nuggets of their wisdom every week. There's only been two and I'm already hooked. Keep this up.

 

[dragonburner]

James at the end with the killer point about virtual console. I think that motion and buttons should coexist. Just as there are many flavors of ice cream there could be many ways to control games. It isn't just chocolate or vanilla, but a swirl with sprinkles.

 

[Zer0Saber]

And it's not like Nintendo has been adding any new NES games lately...I't been at like 88 for a year or so. Virtual console was one of the reasons I bought the Wii, and I got screwed on that deal.

 

[Fappy]

I don't know if I would go as far as to say gaming continuity is easier to get into than comic book continuity. Although this may be the case for some games, generally its not very hard to say, track down and play the entirety of the Halo franchise (sorry Bob!) than it is to understand every nuance and character arch associated with the current members of the Avengers (oh yeah, and which team?) without research the characters' pasts and recent universe events.

But you said it is easier to get into game continuity with this post. What the hell are you trying to say?

As it turns out I accidentally swapped the two subjects of the first sentence thus making my entire post nonsensical.... oops. D:

 

[Thorvan]

Oh dear...

Console gamers already see PC games being brought over to their platform being 'dumbed down' because of the constraints of the controllers. If the industry tries to cater to the novice to expand the market, won't they be simplifying the controllers even further if the current ones appear 'daunting' to a rookie?

My only answer to this is... so? Just because we get simplified controllers does not mean that A; we lose the more complex ones, or B; it will result in necessarily worse experiences. There are significant markets for both the simplified and the complex input devices, for a smattering of reasons; and if we pressure game developers to provide a conduit for both of these in their games, what exactly is the downside?

 

[RandV80]

Man, I wish people would stop looking at the Wii-mote+nunchuk control scheme (and now Sony Move) as a device for gimicky motion controls, and see it as a tool for enhanced control and precision. Metroid Prime 3 being the best example of those, and hopefully Skyward Sword can follow that up.

Starting from the NES console generation, enhanced controllers and controls came standard with a console upgrade. So who decided that the PS2 and Xbox controllers were perfect and we should stop there? Yes waggle sucks and is usually just a gimick, but upgrading your dual analogue input from XY to XYZ should be considered a good thing and embraced.

 

[Zetsubou^-^]

lot of topics good discussion tho.

1:as far as i'm concerned motion controls are hit or miss. certain games don't take it well and shouldn't try. i do feel that some genres actually use it well. for instance, resident evil 4 was much more entertaining (and less infuriating)when i could point at said baddy and hit him most of the time. it was also better for the quick time controls i know yahtzee so hates =D. the control schemes of the gc and ps2 were much harder to master. the same could be said for the metroid prime shooters. things like no more heroes could take or leave it, but it is nice doing that finishing slash. i dont feel it breaks gameplay. besides, who hasn't found a place where they can sit while playing wii? is it law that you stand?

2:downloadable content. i think it is the best and cheapest way currently to play older games that aren't compatible with current generation consoles.damn to the lack of backwards compatability, that destroys we who still cling to older games and hope our old systems don't break or become infinitely difficult to find. that said, i am wary of using credit cards and such to pay for things, but game point cards, much like prepaid time cards, lessen that worry. transitioning things over to dlc would mean they would need to find ways to fill out the development costs, but im sure it wouldn't be earthshattering.

3: skipping tutorials. yes and no. keep tutorials, but don't tie them to the early part of the game, explain how to exit it, and explain how to find it again if needed FIRST!!!!!
while we are on skipping things, plase make an option to pause cutscenes, and put the option to skip it one or two choices down that list. too long has a wrong button press skipped a scene i may have wanted to see. and pausing in games is just good sense.

 

[Sovereignty]

Point: Movie Bob.


Seriously why isn't there a voting for who won this discussion!?

Great points though. I feel like a secret window into the gaming world was just opened.

 

[Tele-screen]

This column gave me two connected thoughts afterward:

First, I thought back to the first time I picked up a game with a thumbstick. It was Mario 64 on the first level at a Toys R Us. There's that tilty bridge that leads up to where the cannon and Chain Chomp are and I had no ability to get across it. I tried 15 times and only managed to fall off, lose health from the nearby Goombas, and ultimately give up. Now I can spin two joysticks at the same time to strafe around a corner in a FPS and drop a bomb on somebody. Thinking back, it was a crazy long road over the course of a decade to get the middling level of skill I have. Trying to learn video games from scratch would be like asking someone to learn a new language.

My second thought is related and is in regards to Virtual Console and other classic game download services. I work at a one of the major console companies in customer service and help older people who have no interest in the modern games hook up their kids' consoles online. While I'm in the process, they are usually bored and indifferent to the actual gaming aspect of the console until I tell them that they can download the games they actually know, like Pac Man, etc. They get pretty excited, especially when they hear that they won't have to drop 50 bucks to play these games. A lot of our parents played the hell out of these games in college at their local pizza joints and are basically just lapsed gamers. The idea of conforming to an "adult" life made them leave gaming behind. I've found that the best way to ease them back into playing games with their kids is not necessarily motion controls, but familiarity, simplicity, purity. I'm with Movie Bob that access to gaming's past is what will help bring the medium into its future. If I was going to give my 5 year old nephew a console, I'd give him a GBA and a stack of my old Game Boy and Advance games. That's real training wheels.

 

[soundoflights]

I would love to hear you guys get together on a VoIP for an hour a week and just discuss stuff like this. I think it would be pretty epic. I know I would listen to it, wouldn't even need a video.

 

[STE3L]

there'll be no reason for companies NOT to put their back-catalogues online and rake in the microtransaction cash.

... except "they" may start having lower new sales * OH NO *

but it is still true that new players can't play the "REALLY GOOD OLDIES" without doing something illegal (Piracy), so we can only hope.

Keep it up guys, I'm starting to enjoy this.

 

[Rassmusseum]

Love this column! I'm hoping the conversation will swing to more of the topics discussed in Extra Credits as this goes on. I'd love to hear what Yahtzee and Bob have to say about some of those things

 

[Rassmusseum]

Seriously why isn't there a voting for who won this discussion!?

...Because its not a competition, dude.