Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed

[Terramax]

It's God of War. How do you take that game serious enough to be shocked by something like this?

 

[jcfrommars9]

so, IN FUCKING CONTEXT you are beating women down and getting an achievement for it.

No, you're not. In fact, when you do beat the Furies, the achievement you gets is "Bond Broken". "Bros before Hos" is a trophy given because Orkos betrays the Furies to help Kratos defeat them. Sessler got his facts wrong and then it snowballed to the point where Santa Monica decided to change the title.

I'd say don't even bother. The point has been brought up multiple times in the thread, but fact of the matter is people are completely willing to disregard or outright throw away common sense and logical thinking in order to just push and push their own thoughts.
Some people noticed when you actually got the achievement, the context of the achievement, and thus understood its meaning.
Others don't give a Harpy's flea-covered ass about the context of the achievement, and just want to jump on the PC bandwagon to insult and belittle others for not agreeing with them.

Some have noticed, and still find its context and placement tasteless and unfunny, and with some unfortunate implications.

Its very much a 'seriously, dude? not funny, way to ruin the moment.' kind of thing.

Some have mentioned the Ho slang word as 'just referring to women in general', and defending it like that... except, by 'referring to women in general', you are saying its ok to use a slang word that is designed as a shortened insult against sex workers as way to talk about women. Much as the way some teen boys don't seem to get why women get upset when you think its ok to just use '*****' instead of she, her or woman.

I don't mind if people find the trophy name tasteless. At least those people do for the correct reasons. What I mind is people incorrectly believing that the trophy achievement had anything to do with Kratos beating up Alecto. This tells me that they didn't bother to check the facts for themselves nor did they care to. They just went off what someone else said (Sessler). I can't take them or their outrage seriously if like Sessler they can't even bother to get their facts right. That's just irresponsible. Bros before Hos is obviously a play on words for Orkos betraying the Furies to help Kratos and nothing more.

 

[WindKnight]

I don't mind if people find the trophy name tasteless. At least those people do for the correct reasons. What I mind is people incorrectly believing that the trophy achievement had anything to do with Kratos beating up Alecto. This tells me that they didn't bother to check the facts for themselves nor did they care to. They just went off what someone else said (Sessler). I can't take them or their outrage seriously if like Sessler they can't even bother to get their facts right. That's just irresponsible. Bros before Hos is obviously a play on words for Orkos betraying the Furies to help Kratos and nothing more.

Actually, Sesslers reveiw is specifically talking about the fight, and he states that in context the fight itself and the cutscenes fit within the games framework and what we klnow of Kratos, and its only whn the trophy popped 'after the cutscene' that he took offense. And yes, that is what it is referring it too, but it essentially reduces a man choosing to aid someone against their evil mother to frat boy humour, which coupled to the prior beating of said mother sets the wrong tone.

Also, there's a lot of people running in and raging 'BUT ITS OK TO BEAT UP MEN! DOUBLE STANDARDS! DOUBLE STANDARDS!', so its not just people complaining about the trophy who are not making sure they know what their talking about.

 

[Madgamer13]

Well, this is amusing. This also has to be one of the least violent encounters with Kratos I've ever seen as well, I think the highly destructive god of war went easy on her. The achievement also happens after the guy saves Kratos, which suggests that the achievement is actually for the actions of Orkos after the 'savage beating' the not-so-lady recieved.

I think Kratos should show his stance on equality and give a real female in his god of war lore a Zeus level beating worthy of legend. Any less would only suggest that Kratos thinks women are inferior to his male opponents.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Doesn't it feel good to love your fellow man, you guys?

...

Guys...?

OT: I don't think I could say anything meaningful regarding this matter that won't add fuel to this already preposterously large fire.

 

[CaptainKarma]

perhaps its still them being spineless by choice over nothing.

And perhaps they actually saw the error of their ways. Let us continue to speculate on their motives to prove a point.

God of War isn't misogynistic, Kratos kills both men and women without mercy.

If anything it is the definition of gender equality.

Which is perhaps why the issue isn't him killing her (which is staying in the game) and more in the achievement name (which has been changed)

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Some people need to grow up.

When you're making a bigger stink than the people who caused the change, the "grow up" argument loses a lot of its bite.

It was a stupid title. It's a stupid change. There', equality. Let's move on.

How exactly is a quick opinion drop on a semi-related forum a "bigger-stink" than anything that would cause a dev to change their content? It's not... is the obvious answer. I do get that-that doesn't help you to be rudely dismissive of people or aid you in feeling superior...

I agree with the idea that this is an inconsequential change to the game. I also agree with the sentiment that they shouldn't have buckled, especially given that the nature of the complaint seems to be based on a mis-interpretation of the scene.

 

[Robetid]

I'm still offended by the title of this achievement. I have never been in a frat and am nobody's "bro". Bros before foes is derogitory to males and catagorizes us as mindless binge drinkers chasing loose women while wearing backwards truckers caps, brightly colored tank tops, and board shorts. I don't think the devs have fixed anything, but only made it worse by assuming being a "bro" is socially acceptable. Yep, this arguement is that stupid.

 

[jcfrommars9]

Actually, Sesslers reveiw is specifically talking about the fight, and he states that in context the fight itself and the cutscenes fit within the games framework and what we klnow of Kratos, and its only whn the trophy popped 'after the cutscene' that he took offense. And yes, that is what it is referring it too, but it essentially reduces a man choosing to aid someone against their evil mother to frat boy humour, which coupled to the prior beating of said mother sets the wrong tone.

The reason I don't agree because it's clear that the impression far too many people got was that the trophy immediately followed and/or was only in regards to Kratos beating up Alecto. To the point that it needed to be explained in the first place. That tells me that ultimately, Sessler spoke without proper context. Perhaps because of the embargo but that is irresponsible. Plus Sessler's criticism implies that Kratos' reasons for beating up Alecto was because she was a woman not because she was evil and just as brutal and powerful as he is. As Kratos and players quickly find out, she cannot be defeated so easily.

Also, there's a lot of people running in and raging 'BUT ITS OK TO BEAT UP MEN! DOUBLE STANDARDS! DOUBLE STANDARDS!', so its not just people complaining about the trophy who are not making sure they know what their talking about.

True, but I never said otherwise.

 

[Frankster]

For a " shockingly violent scene even by God of War standards" i was rather disappointed once i went to see the actual scene in question. It was one of the tamest god of war scenes yet xD The Fury in question walks it off too.

Otherwise can fully understand why the name needed to be changed. Bros before foes is better in every regard aswell.

 

[CaptainKarma]

Which is perhaps why the issue isn't him killing her (which is staying in the game) and more in the achievement name (which has been changed)

It's just a general fratboy term that doesn't harm a soul. I don't see why people get so up in arms about shit like this when they could be focusing on real misogyny.[/quote]

WHo is "so up in arms" about it? This seems the tiniest controversy ever. Reviewer calls them out, they change it, the Escapist reports the change, and I procrastinate at work arguing why they were right to change it.

How is that an overreaction? It's barely a reaction.

 

[Lugbzurg]

People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Yeah, I was wondering why people would consider this to be so out-of-place. Did they forget that fountain scene near the beginning of God of War II? This is even more stupid than if Splinter Cell: Blacklist had a trophy or achievement that made a pun about knocking people unconscious. Like... where were you during everything, reviewer!?

 

[WindKnight]

That tells me that ultimately, Sessler spoke without proper context. Perhaps because of the embargo but that is irresponsible. Plus Sessler's criticism implies that Kratos' reasons for beating up Alecto was because she was a woman not because she was evil and just as brutal and powerful as he is. As Kratos and players quickly find out, she cannot be defeated so easily.
True, but I never said otherwise.

His criticism was entirely of the trophy title. If you watch the video, he was uncomfortable with the beating itself, but acknowledged it fit the game and the character. Kratos is vicious, nasty, brutish, the 'victim' is evil and monstrous and just as capable of nastiness herself. The trophy title adds an uncomfortable context to the beating there otherwise would not have been.

break the phrase down, it ultimately means 'treat males as your soul brothers. treat females as ephemeral things you use for sex.' The alteration takes the uncomfortable connotations away, and honestly makes the line funnier.

 

[Tolkienfanatic]

What a shame that Sony Santa Monica felt compelled to pander to a vocal minority of over-senstive politically correct sissies.

 

[jcfrommars9]

That tells me that ultimately, Sessler spoke without proper context. Perhaps because of the embargo but that is irresponsible. Plus Sessler's criticism implies that Kratos' reasons for beating up Alecto was because she was a woman not because she was evil and just as brutal and powerful as he is. As Kratos and players quickly find out, she cannot be defeated so easily.
True, but I never said otherwise.

His criticism was entirely of the trophy title. If you watch the video, he was uncomfortable with the beating itself, but acknowledged it fit the game and the character. Kratos is vicious, nasty, brutish, the 'victim' is evil and monstrous and just as capable of nastiness herself. The trophy title adds an uncomfortable context to the beating there otherwise would not have been.

break the phrase down, it ultimately means 'treat males as your soul brothers. treat females as ephemeral things you use for sex.' The alteration takes the uncomfortable connotations away, and honestly makes the line funnier.

The trophy title had nothing to do with the context of the beating nor could it have by any stretch of the imagination be confused as otherwise. Sessler made that incorrect leap all on his own. Worse, he did it without giving all of the context and facts which sent others in a frenzy believing that the title directly followed or was about Kratos beating a woman to death when it was neither. The phrase "Bros before Hos" has more than one meaning. Some deliberately derogatory, some a figure speech, certainly not always meaning that women in general are objects only to be used for sex. In this case, it was regarding Orkos betrayal of the Furies to Kratos. I'm not concerned about the alteration. If you're happy with it, that's fine. I'm concerned because of how badly Sessler misinterpreted the scene. How it was acceptable that Sessler didn't need to regard context or facts, just as long as he implied that it was sexist or misogynistic, then it's alright which it again, it wasn't.

 

[Detroit]

I had a quite a laugh when I read this post on Destructoid:

I like it too because now it equates Hoes and Foes

and women are the enemy.

It would've been more appropriate if the God of War franchise had a different track record. This is typical GoW stuff that's why it was put in the game in the first place.
The GoW experience "soured" by something that is typically GoW. Something about the game industry, pandering and drawing lines between blood, gore and sex-filled games. Something, too lazy to go back and see.

Captcha: hunky-dory, if only.

 

[WindKnight]

The phrase "Bros before Hos" has more than one meaning. Some deliberately derogatory, some a figure speech, certainly not always meaning that women in general are objects only to be used for sex. In this case, it was regarding Orkos betrayal of the Furies to Kratos. I'm not concerned about the alteration. If you're happy with it, that's fine. I'm concerned because of how badly Sessler misinterpreted the scene. How it was acceptable that Sessler didn't need to regard context or facts, just as long as he implied that it was sexist or misogynistic, then it's alright which it again, it wasn't.

Except, he didn't misinterpret it. He got the context and facts right. Watch the segment of the video where he talks about it. the cutscene happens right after the fight, the trophy pops. it sums up the moment not as you defeated an evil monster, and her son chooses to aid you because he believes in your cause, but you pimp slapped that ho and your bro was ok wid dat.

And again, the phrase reduces males to your brother, family, and females to a ho, sex. Use the phrase in front of your mother, your sister or women in general, and see how they react to it.

 

[Something Amyss]

They should not have to change a stupid joke because of butthurt people

But they did. End of story. Now, move along.

Time and energy is being wasted to avoid people who can't take a joke from getting upset. I don't want companies folding every time someone kicks up a fuss.

Time and energy you're now also wasting on something that's already done.

Ultimately, it was their choice.

What's so awful about being PC?

The fact that it's been predominantly a bogeyman term since its use in non-Russian culture. "Political Correctness" in america is about as apt as calling Obama a Nazi. If either were true, you wouldn't be free to say them.

Still, I take your point. I see no downside in the doctrine of "don't be a dick." Some people evidently got upset in a shitstorm I missed entirely. The company calmly and maturely changed something trivial to rectify things. A bigger shitstorm is kicked up by people who dislike whining but will whine about whiners. It puzzles me.

 

[Scrythe]

This is a complete outrage.

I mean, they made a prequel to God of War for cryin' out loud!

What, was there some great gaping loose end that was left untied after God of War 3? Did they really needed to push things further back? What great mystery in the straightforward story of Kratos was left unanswered?

It's like the developers are all completely out of ide-

Oh... that's not what we're talking about here, is it? Well shit.

 

[Gigano]

Against stupidity even the gods contend in vain.

Seems a godslayer isn't up for the challenge either. The scourge of offended calls for censorship absent thought of context marches on.