Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed

[Ix Rebound]

EDIT: crap quoting please ignore

 

[Ix Rebound]

Cute. Guess what, it still doesn't change the fact the almost EVERY major female in that series is either A) Victimized B) Objectified C) Overly sexualized or D) some combination of the three. It's hard to say that the game is equal what with how many times women are reduced to fucktoy minigames or juvenile eye candy and that's when they're not being killed for no reason other than to cement Kratos as the juvenile power fantasy he is.

Your argument does not hold water when men are treated the exact same way. Kratos will kill anybody, male or female for the slightest reason and has always been that way. The god of war series has always consistently treated both men and women equally in all forms of brutality.

The trophy, awarded once Kratos has finished pummeling a female antagonist in a shockingly violent scene even by God of War standards,

Sessler has obviously never played God of War 3 and fought Poseiden yet

Is that the one where you pummel his face in until the entire screen is red with blood or was that zeus?

the one where you pummel his face in until it goes red it zeus
Poseidon is the one where one beat his head against the wall, head butt him 4 for 5 times then gouge out his eyes while twisting his neck

 

[Kair]

People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

But on the contrary you can find beating a man funny? Misogyny goes both ways.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Eh. Does it make any sense within the context of the story? I mean is this literally a "Choosing a male friend/ally over a female" that I assume Krato's dispatches? I doubt it. Doesn't seem like Kratos to have an ally period.

Unfunny to be sure, maybe a chuckle for the sudden jar in tone but.... eh.... Not feeling it's really sexist, just dumb.

Bros before Foes? Little more clever, but again without the context of Kratos having a bro... ehhh.

Alternatively, it's humor based solely on the fact Kratos is killing a woman, may as well go the full 9 yards: "Get Back In The Kitchen!" would be more appropriate, still shock humor though. I mean if one's going to do it for that reason, may as well lay it on thick.

Not as bad as the Gear Box guy calling for a "Girlfriend" mode though, IMO.

People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

But on the contrary you can find beating a man funny? Misogyny goes both ways.

...No it doesn't. Then it's called Misandry.

I see nothing wrong with this. I say whites over ni%#^rs all the time.

Oh wait. I keep forgetting using gender based insults are fine but using skin color based ones is off limits.

Sarcasm.

Yeah, no, sorry. Comparing the quest for Feminist equality to the civil rights movement grossly understates the struggle of the black men and women went through. Both racist and sexist views are equally wrong, but referring a woman as a prostitute is no were near as bad as calling someone a racial slur that was designed to dehumanize and therefore make it socially acceptable to ENSLAVE an entire race of people. And yes, I know of the illegal human trafficking, and I'm also aware it's ILLEGAL where as enslavement of black people was not only socially acceptable but LEGAL for a long fucking time and didn't end in America at least until we fought a fucking war about it.

 

[CaptainKarma]

So Adam Sessler makes a comment that gets Sony Santa Monica to change the name of a trophy that a gamer MAYBE would have looked at once. In their usual "let's rouse the rabble" style of reporting, the Escapist runs this non-story. Shortly thereafter, every misogynist and white knight on the Escapist come in to angrily denounce each other for 301 posts.

Oh, Escapist. You never fail to invoke amusement and pity in equal amounts.

Don't forget all the holier-than-thou posts judging them!

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Ugh, I'm suddenly reminded of Bob talking about how the Hansel and Gretel movie was misogynistic because it had the pair killing witches among other things.

Hahaha, oh wow. He really hasn't gotten any better has he?

 

[Mid Boss]

Yeah, no, sorry. Comparing the quest for Feminist equality to the civil rights movement grossly understates the struggle of the black men and women went through. Both racist and sexist views are equally wrong, but referring a woman as a prostitute is no were near as bad as calling someone a racial slur that was designed to dehumanize and therefore make it socially acceptable to ENSLAVE an entire race of people. And yes, I know of the illegal human trafficking, and I'm also aware it's ILLEGAL where as enslavement of black people was not only socially acceptable but LEGAL for a long fucking time and didn't end in America at least until we fought a fucking war about it.

Really? Well, Jesus, I could have swore women had to fight for all the same rights minorities had to. I must have missed that part in the history books where one day all of women kind woke up and suddenly had the right to own property, to vote, to get educations, equal pay, and not get beaten by their husbands.

Kiss my grits I need to crack open those old books and do some editing because dehumanizing slurs used against women are in no way comparable to the ones used against minorities. Wow we'll even need to edit the Bible. Let's see here

Deutreronomy 28 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found"
29 "then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

We'll just change that to

Deutreronomy 28 "Happy Fun Time!"
29 "Kittens!"

Wheew. Dodged the bullet there. That ALMOST sounded like, by religious law, rapist are to compensate their victims fathers for damage of property and that victims are required to marry their assailants.

Good thing you came along and set me straight. I never knew women had it so good.

 

[jcfrommars9]

I can hardly believe how obtuse you are. The very negative definitions being attached to these words is offensive sexist bullshit (pussy-female genitalia and coward, bastard-person born out of wedlock and asshole etc). These are not arbitrary additional definitions they are there because of a history of sexist usage. There's a reason words for female genitalia or aspects of being a woman are insults but rutabega doesn't have any negative definitions associated with it. I can not believe that you read what I said that you keep spewing the same clueless arguments at me over again. There is frankly nothing to be gained in continuing this conversation if the only response to my last post is to repeat the arguments you stated in your first post. I'm not going to argue in circles with you go wallow in your casual societal sexism or read some feminism 101 on gendered slurs. http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/feminism-friday-on-*****-and-other-misogynist-language/

The negative definitions being attached to those words is offensive and can be sexist bullshit, but it isn't always nor can one assume so. I keep repeating myself because your arguments haven't given me anything new to think about and making sweeping statements doesn't help. Pussy, female genitalia and coward? Sure. But backbone, spine, "guts" (intenstines) are also associated with courage or lack thereof. Or are these also only aspects of being a woman? These are very arbitrary definitions because one gives specific interpretation to them. I'm not telling you that calling someone a pussy or a ho is never meant as sexist, only that you cannot always interpret it that way without context. But now you've brought Argumentum Ad Hominem into your post. I won't discuss it further either if you're no longer interested in attacking my arguments solely.

 

[Frankster]

It might be fun to have a Forum nemesis if I can get the tone and language of my posts right (if you don't mind being an experiment for this).

I consider myself a really poor debater and often joke irl that i can be succesfully outargued when i say the sky is blue.
But then again that might be why I'd be a suitable sparring partner if you consider yourself a poor debater aswell, we could both benefit from the practice and i enjoy your theatrical manner of conversing.
My initial response to you was actually part of an ongoing effort to improve my posting manner when disagreeing with someone (i actually felt my initial comment was too snarky, but snarky tends to be the norm here).

Allrighties, i agree, feel free to debate with me whenever you get the chance Forum nemesis seems a bit strong though, as it implies ill feelings when there are none (at least for me, i hope the reverse is true aswell), forum contrarian sounds too poncey though...Forum rival? xD
Oh ok fine, nemesis does sound cooler.

 

[Mid Boss]

Ugh, I'm suddenly reminded of Bob talking about how the Hansel and Gretel movie was misogynistic because it had the pair killing witches among other things.

Hahaha, oh wow. He really hasn't gotten any better has he?

He said that witch hunters were once real people who went around judging and killing peasants, almost entirely women, for acting against church and government guidelines. That these guys are the good guys of the story because the witches turn out to be real, is kind of weird like if Django Unchained was reworked so that Calvin Candy and Steven were the good guys because all the black people they were beating and killing turned out to be werewolves. Which... actually sounds pretty bad ass...

Anyway.

The problem with that comparison is that most people don't equate misogyny with racism so it went over their heads. I mean they're both the act of belittling and dehumanizing a group of people but many seem to think women don't deserve that comparison because, while once treated as sub human property, we have this strange assumption that their sub human property treatment... wasn't as bad as what people of different skin colors got? Which history says WAS just as bad, but, hey, welcome to a society that says women deserve to be raped if they are alone after dark, drunk, or dressed like a tart. We are surrounded by idiots.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Eh. Does it make any sense within the context of the story? I mean is this literally a "Choosing a male friend/ally over a female" that I assume Krato's dispatches? I doubt it. Doesn't seem like Kratos to have an ally period.

Gonna chime in here:
It actually makes sense with the context given, seeing as the trophy is awarded after Kratos does bad things to aforementioned Fury, she pulls a "kagebunshin" on him and brings in reinforcements, which seem to have him cornered, only for a male relative? of the Furies to rescue Kratos, thus becoming his Bro.
So "Bros before Hoes" refers not to Kratos's actions, but to the choice a supporting character made, namely the choice to help Kratos ( a "Bro") instead of the Furies (the "Hoes" in this case)

Bros before Foes is cleverer though, since it includes not only the meme but also a pun.
And as we all know, puns are the highest form of humour known to man.

And where do you exactly draw the line when you use this phrase, it apparently wasn't 'just a game' when PETA made their parody flash game of Mario slaughtering Tanuki Racoon dogs, but it's 'just a game' when a woman is beaten to death. Will it be 'just a game' pray tell if, in five to ten years time if in five-ten years time, this violence was taken to it's logical conclusion a game made you perform acts of brutality and violence that a serial killer would think depraved or unjustified, maybe with the option to put photos from your facebook friends list onto the enemies or the character in question would you still call it just a game?

Because if we don't make a stand and say that we don't want this to happen it will, and that will be the last game because YOU will have made the videogame landscape too toxic for anyone else to play.

Think about that the next time you say "It's just a game"

That has got to be one of the most epic slippery slope reasonings i've seen in a while.

Also please don't try and impose your own tastes and sensibilities on OTT gory immature products if you don't like them.
The idea of you applying this reasoning to other games is one i find far more toxic then the scenario you described.

I wasn't imposing anything, Just pointing out what the stance of "it's just a game meant. However, if this future does comes to pass I'll remember it was because of people like you.

You mean you never played the Manhunt games? Because they probably fit your bill, though they do not include an option to kill your facebook friends.
But I would totally play a game in which I get to model enemies after my friends, seems like fun.

And you want some of that slippery slope?

First they came for the violent games,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't into them.

Then they came for sex in videogames,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't into that.

Then they came for the rest of the mature games,
and I didn't speak out because I didn't play them.

Then they came for my games,
and there was no one left to speak for me.


In short: Violence in video-games is just that: Violence in a medium meant to entertain others.
If you see it fit to judge others and to impose upon them your values, because that, which brings them joy, is sure to damn us all, you are certainly on your own.

And since you have a thing for the dramatic, again with some pathos:
"Is it just a game", you ask?
And I answer yes.
If, Mario jumps onto helpless goombas, crushing them under his mighty heel, it is just a game.
If Krato unleashes his wrath upon the innocent, it is just a game.
If John Marston, on his quest for salvation, shoots those that have not wronged him, it is just a game.
It is just a game.
Your vision of a dystopian future, where the last gamers will play the last game, released in a barren landscapse, riddled with violence is a flawed one indeed, for gamers were never so simple minded as to sheepishly endorse only one genre, only one kind of game as you seemingly would like to believe.
There are video-games that cater to every desire imaginable, that allow you to escape reality and become something more, something different, something incredible, and yet you hold on to this antiquated belief that "violence will kill videogames"?

 

[Church185]

snip

To further iterate your point I found this site [http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm] to be quite useful.

But you did forget to mention that there are still places around the world where women are nothing more than property, and have no rights to speak of (looks at the middle east). China (and I may be speaking out of my ass on this one) still values a baby boy more than a baby girl. Sometimes they are even discarded [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1506469.stm].

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

In other news, people are still offended more by slang than bloodshed and massacres.

You special people are so cute.

Hold up, is it bloodshed and massacres of women? If it is, then it's definitely something people will get offended over.

Nature didn't exactly equip women with the upper hand when it comes to holding their own in physical violence, so they are classified into the same category as children and the elderly. I.e. groups that if any dare raise a hand against, in fiction or real life, society will look down upon the attacker with 10x more disgust.

I mean look at that whole bus-rape incident in India, boy that was nuts. Endless protests for better protection for women, I'll have to wholeheartedly agree. I mean if it was a bus full of gangsters and they had all killed each other with swords, people would've given two fucks lol, "sigh just another quarrel among men".

 

[The Funslinger]

This is really damn stupid. I know we all want to be PC for no reason nowadays, but this is a pointless change. Some people need to grow up.

It's as I always say:

Political correctness is the new racism.

This being the perfect example. I'd say it's more offensive to get pissy about a reference to Kratos violently fighting a female enemy, when apparently the hellishly graphic destruction he reaps on the male/non-gender specific enemies is perfectly fine than it is just to treat this achievement the same as any other achievement in the game with a pun title.

Equality: The perception and treatment of two things on the same level to the point where they may as well be indistinguishable.

That's not what this is.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

You summed up pretty nicely exactly why we(as in humanity) are not mature enough to handle this debate.
As long as people see so huge differences between genders and keep their preconceptions of women as being defenseless, we'll never have any genuine equality.

What preconceptions? Look at the statistics. Men are raping women 99.9999999% of the time, men have been holding power women for 99.99999% of history. Obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I'm not far off the real figures.
I have no such thing as "preconceptions". All I have are facts. Facts you have to goddamn face, like the prime one that men and women are NOT equal.
I am 100% in agreement when people say men and women deserve equal RIGHTS. Yes, of course they do. But men and women are NOT equal in every way, there is a huge gaping difference and you can't just shovel sand over the reality of things. And reality is, even today a lot of women in 3rd world countries are getting oppressed by men who hold power over them. Almost every_single_culture and society has seen women oppressed in some form or the other. It has never been the other way around, not in recorded history anyway.

So first you need to learn to deal with THAT, and then we can become "mature enough to handle this debate" lol. There is only one way this is getting solved and that is if MEN choose stop the violence and rape of women. The decision ultimately lies with men, the prime offenders, the overwhelming majority of the culprits. It's as simple as that.

 

[Zeckt]

You summed up pretty nicely exactly why we(as in humanity) are not mature enough to handle this debate.
As long as people see so huge differences between genders and keep their preconceptions of women as being defenseless, we'll never have any genuine equality.

What preconceptions? Look at the statistics. Men are raping women 99.9999999% of the time, men have been holding power women for 99.99999% of history. Obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I'm not far off the real figures.
I have no such thing as "preconceptions". All I have are facts. Facts you have to goddamn face, like the prime one that men and women are NOT equal.
I am 100% in agreement when people say men and women deserve equal RIGHTS. Yes, of course they do. But men and women are NOT equal in every way, there is a huge gaping difference and you can't just shovel sand over the reality of things. And reality is, even today a lot of women in 3rd world countries are getting oppressed by men who hold power over them. Almost every_single_culture and society has seen women oppressed in some form or the other. It has never been the other way around, not in recorded history anyway.

So first you need to learn to deal with THAT, and then we can become "mature enough to handle this debate" lol. There is only one way this is getting solved and that is if MEN choose stop the violence and rape of women. The decision ultimately lies with men, the prime offenders, the overwhelming majority of the culprits. It's as simple as that.

There's nothing that people like you and me can do to stop those people with overreactive sex drives though, they will continue to become uncontrollable even at the sight of a woman and be protected time and time again by our revolving door prison system where police do not even warn us of violent sex offenders released back into the populous.

 

[thelastgogeta]

Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of God of War, don't quote me if I say something silly or slightly off... At least not too much...

I've lurked for over a year and chose to avoid the Mass Effect and She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named threads... Mostly interested in this one because it had some amusing .gif files. I don't intend to stick around for this one but I feel like posting something.

Anyway, the original trophy name shouldn't be seen as a threat or signal of misogyny on a number of levels. First, we have the context in which the trophy appears, I'm sure this video has been posted a couple of times or so prior but I'm trying to make a point and someone is going to speak as if Kratos said it after slaying all of the Furies and female character in God of War's lore while reviving the male ones with a toothy grin.

And what really happened was...


Oh. It was a little message complimenting the fact you got a new MacGuffin a while after:
(Kratos is too manly to get a trophy for being saved right?)

1) You seemingly kill one of the Furies. Remember, these are antagonists, not even civilians who get used as doorstops literally by our lovely protagonist in other titles or killed just because.
2) You are ambushed and trapped by the three Furies, with the initial beating (which isn't that significant by the standards set in the series, against women or not) being shown to be an illusion. Hence, any drama based on the violence is completely out of hand as in canon, she wasn't injured and more importantly bad guys die in this franchise and okay guys too.
3) You are saved by some guy (sorry for the lack of interest in the details), chat with him for a while then he leaves giving you something shiny which gets you the trophy.

While, all of this happens in a few minutes, the timing is not only a little late arguably to wait for the action to cooldown a bit. The occurrence is connected to a man saving another man, instead of going with whatever the Furies' interests want. "Bros before Hos" as a meme is something referenced even by House M.D., a show I have yet to watch of, but I find it hard to believe that something with deaths left and right can't pass with a tongue in cheek trophy while the lead of a Sherlock Holmes inspired Medical Drama gets to do this...

We shouldn't really hold this game to a higher standard (Yes, it is debatable how high it should be) as far as being polite to the ladies goes, it is based on Greek Mythology and part of a series based around someone indifferent to one's sex in the act of killing them, especially when it comes to antagonists. Non-linear and stealth games aside, that's how games go whether you are fighting the Sun or lines of blocks. Fortunately, the replacement name is basically the same thing. Even more amusing than before, still highlighting the same concept (perhaps implying that "hoes are the foes" hence "women are the enemy" :O).

I'll agree that trophies can have some effect on how a game feels and recommend Jim Sterling's article of the topic (http://www.destructoid.com/god-of-war-bros-before-hos-248381.phtml), however not only is the intent in a different direction to the massive response, the scene doesn't play out in a way that compliments the "feminist interpretation" and the name of the trophy was written in by a female producer (https://twitter.com/ToddPapy/status/309746549125152768) though I dislike implying that a man wouldn't be able to do it tastefully... >_> Or that the man wouldn't be respected for the decision on the basis that he is a man.

Thanks for the image, Casual Shinji.
It does feel good to love your fellow brethren.