Conversation

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

Ya know, I don't think this is too had to implement either. At least, a few things are easy and the rest is tough, but some thing seem slightly "pointless" like the "be a smartass button" - but frankly I like that, a LOT. I love TF2 for it and other games with their super convoluted in-game "talking" menu, like Battlefield and Left 4 Dead's quicker version.

I am also glad you mentioned SWAT. It showed how perfectly you could implement a "speak" button without it being a gimmick and I'm also amazed no one's picked up on it.

I guess my point is that the best way to handle this, is to make it a feature and not the core gameplay. This way, we get the perfect blend of conversation and action.

I always thought that this was a much overlooked feature, and in small doses it can make a big difference.

 

[Wolfrug]

Regarding well-done dialogues: look up Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy. It's a typical adventure game, and it offers typical branching conversation trees, BUT, they're on a timer. This simple mechanic (which, incidentally, makes perfect sense - why would your counterpart stand there like an idiot for half an hour while you decide which conversation choice you want to pick?) totally immerses you in the game in a way no other branching conversation-type dialog has before - especially considering it's often impossible to go through ALL the possible branches. Once again, this makes perfect sense - why would you stand there talking about crap endlessly, or asking the same questions over and over (and no, you can't do that either - you have one conversation, then it's over).

This is not all, however. The conversation system ties in with the in-game "mood" system, which is kind of like your 'hit points' if you wish. If your mood hits rock bottom, you turn suicidal and it's game over. Some conversations also have a "suspicion" meter - there are various scenes where your main character has to speak with police officers without raising their suspicion; sometimes merely by correct dialog choices, sometimes by winning quicktime events + correct dialog choices, sometimes by preparing the scene adequately beforehand etc. In short, there's a whole game to talking here, and it works excellently.

More RPGs should go with this - I'm bored with the stock standard (take the Fallouts) method of endlessly branching and endlessly repeating dialog trees. Talking should be about choices and consequences - not clicking through options until you get to the "right" one.

Off topic from the writer's discussion, of course ^^ The SWAT mechanism was great, and I support its inclusion in any and all other games that might allow for a less-than-lethal approach!

 

[TomBeraha]

I think the idea is fantastic. The problem people are seeing with it is that they're applying it to games that already have been made (and are therefore complete) adding features to games isn't like adding toppings to an ice cream, it doesn't just improve it if you like that topping. It's more like adding ingredients to an ice cream, where it has to work with the other flavors.

Ice cream aside - I think that this type of feature could allow for more cerebral gaming. Instead of a batman game where you beat up the thugs, you could act as Batman ought to, you intimidate the thugs, You could win fights without swinging, by scaring your enemy into submission. His voice has always been a part of that. I don't think it should stop you from playing your batman character as one who chooses to battle every little underling, but it doesn't seem likely to me. If your attempts to coerce and intimidate npcs improve as the game progresses (not with experience points, but similarly with usage) It would make sense, Your character has built his reputation. If you offer people the chance to surrender, and then hunt them down anyway if they do, they should be more afraid of you, but less likely to run if you tell them to. If you let them live, they should be more likely to save their own hides. If you've gotten where you are in the game by cutting deals, you should be more comfortable dealing out choices for the your arch-nemesis at the end of the game. perhaps even talking him/her down.

Talking should definitely be another tool in your arsenal, the trick of it will be making it easy to use, and not breaking the players immersion, as much procedurally generated context relevant content as you can put in is the key point here. A list of dialogue options isn't fun in the middle of a gun fight. But a button for talk, in combination with up,down,left,right for 'frighten/intimidate','joke/flirt','plead/beg','boast/brag' to allow you to use as many pre-made lines as possible, with varying effect on the enemies would make for interesting game elements without being so hard to use as requiring you to look at other parts of the screen.

 

[John Scott Tynes]

Good point about Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit. I quite liked that game until I hit some sequence that drove me away in frustration. I actually forgot they had a timer on conversations; that's a nice touch, at least for the kinds of players likely to play that game.

And man, am I glad to see some fellow SWAT 3 fans. I didn't think anybody remembered that game, even though it defined the modern squad shooter and had that great verbal-command button.

I have to say that I think even the tough-guy action genre would be well served by this kind of a mechanic. Action movies aren't silent; those tough guys often swap insults with the enemy mid-firefight and sometimes they do win a firefight by suppressing morale. Wouldn't it be satisfying if, say, Duke Nukem could make an alien pig-guy drop to his knees and beg for mercy just because Duke insulted his mother? That seems like it would feed right into the usual I'm-a-badass power fantasy. We're just conditioned to think of those games as nothing but shooting.

I really appreciate the nod to TF2. Embarrassingly, I haven't tried it yet. I'll fix that.

 

[Doug]

Ok, did this article actually appear on the front page of the Escapist? Because I've only just noticed it by chance from a forum post on the most recent article.

Anywho, nice article, and I do think there is alot more scope for conversation that the current 'Next Gen' (i.e. shiny and dumb) games offer. Sadly, dialog looks like its going even further way - if we plot the progress of Deus Ex, a well known dialog important game, we've gone from the smart Deus Ex 1 to the nearly linear shooter Deus Ex 2, and apparently the guy incharge of Deus Ex 3 found Deus Ex 1 "Boring because it didn't have enough action".

Its sad really, especially as alot of people are sick and tired of pure action without any talking.

I really appreciate the nod to TF2. Embarrassingly, I haven't tried it yet. I'll fix that.

*Gasp!* How could you!?

 

[Odoylerules360]

but is it easier to try and coerce him into retreating than it is to just kill him?

--And BAM that adds your morality gimmick!

I like Yahtzee's idea better for full conversations, though.

 

[Jezixo]

I love it! This is a fantastic idea. It's not that difficult to manage in terms of development - certainly other aspects of the game will take up way more time than something like this would - and it would make ALL the difference. Even in games like CoD4, I can imagine this would add a whole other level to the game.

The thing is, people in real life are people, but people in action games are just targets. Every step that goes toward making those targets more like people is going to ramp up the immersion and enjoyment of a game.

Consider Deus Ex - for most of that game, there was no incentive to go for non-lethal weapons over pistols and machine guns, and yet most people went for them anyway, just because. That game tapped into a fundamental characteristic of human beings, which is that most people would probably not execute helpless enemies if given a choice. Now imagine if not killing an enemy was a genuine option in EVERY fight, and consider just how much more personal expression and freedom the game would gain.

And all of this from a relatively simple menu. Based on the system you describe, it would take some coding and about 40 to 50 voice-over lines for the protagonist. That's nothing, in the long run.